AnyBoard said..

Thatspec said..

Want to simulate what the trim sytem on the PPC does? Hold your bar like this😂

Tried it today when right on the bottom end of the wind range and thought it might give me some extra help but it just back stalls the wing bad. Tried a few times and it caused it to drop into the water .

Good to know, thanks, I hadn't even tried it on the water. Was it painful to the fingers? That's a V2 PR bar. Single skins are already tuned to higher angles of attack than doubles so your experience makes sense. I'm also finding the transition to stall point a little sharper on the V2 PR than the V1. Still hoping to see a review of the Flysurfer ZAP someday as an alternative to the PPC. Maybe this bar holding method would work better on 'it', maybe it's unnecessary.

BWalnut said..
Saw this for sale posting and thought it was interesting.

Selling the hybrid and keeping the orbit:

“Triple Seven 777 Hybrid 4.3 Parawing
Used a couple of times. I bought this and the PPC Orbit 4.5 to compare. I’m keeping the Orbit for my intended usage: very long upwind commutes in La Ventana. The Hybrid is easier to get on foil and pulls hard and fast upwind. The PPC may point a touch higher, its pull is softer. The Hybrid packs away significantly better, but I have a Power Pack 4.3 that already works great for short laps on the river.“

Cool, from what he's saying I'm happy to keep my hybrids!!

His comments on the 4.5m:

The Orbit is nearly as easy as my power packs in all ways except stowing. I can put it on the water and get on the board easily. It is so light it just floats through jibes even in light air. It flies in almost nothing even after being soaked. There’s a learning curve with the brake. I find half brake is a good balance that keeps the wing flying well and it does provide significant downwind pull deep in the window like a power pack. I may end up using my power packs on long downwinders and the Orbit back upwind. On a 4.5 sailing from Luhr’s up to the lower Hatchery today I was very, very comfortable. I wish it was easier to stow. The Orbit collapses great when hanging on the front of the bar and turning downwind. Just like the LTX’s.

Thatspec said..

BWalnut said..


We chatted privately for a little bit and I picked his brain on deeper details about the Orbit. Conversation ended with me very excited for my incoming order. He also bought the 2.4m and 3.1m LTX just like I did. I think an Orbit/LTX combo is going to cover every imaginable scenario I encounter on the water.

Closest thing we have now for real world use of the PPC, well done!! If the guy was talking about yesterday 07/27, I was also out in the same zone on a V1 4.3m PR. I'm pretty skeptical that a double skin will do much better than this upwind in the Gorge where reaches are short but looking forward to be proven wrong. Theoretically they have to point higher but this is already 9.5+ Kn VMG upwind. Maybe you can get the guy to plug a .GPX file into Wrens VMG calculator ?



foil.run/

Maybe somewhere like the gorge with big current assistance the double skin can only make the upwind more comfortable and not improve VMG that much.

I find that without current assistance and sizing the PR so I am well into the top section of its wind range a good angle would be around 70 to 75 degrees. With more variable wind a more normal day would average just over 60 degrees. If double skin can take that consistently to 80 degrees then going upwind for 30 minutes at an average speed of 24 km/h would result in and extra 1.7km of upwind. That would look like a lot if two mates started at the same time with each on the two different strategies.
24klm average is already a challenging speed to go over solid ocean energy and is a major VMG limiting factor to be considered when foilers describe the wing as being fast with no depower..

BWalnut said..
Pure VMG is one thing, but I don't think that's the main reason to buy a double skin. The double skin is comfort, relaxing over long upwind distances in a wide wind range. Minimal wear and tear on your body as well as allowing your brain to rest and casually sail.

Very true, to make the single skins go upwind well is pretty physical. 1.7km's extra downwinding every 30 mins also sounds good to me😅

There's finally a review up on the Flysurfer Zap,
In French but just auto translate the subtitles. I ordered a 4m largely because the sizing works better for me at my winter ocean spot than the 3.5 or 4.5 PPC would (I think😂). Expensive experiment, even discounted but quite a bit cheaper than the PPC.
Skip to 24:45 for some footage in use. His stow is hilarious...

BWalnut said..
A facebook comment/review:

"I have the 3.5 in Hood River. The low-end is impressive with the PAL line trim. It’s more powerful than my 3.0 V1 Pocket Rocket and—I think—not quite as powerful as my V1 3.6, but that PAL definitely lets me capitalize on gusts for water starts and ride harder upwind angles in lulls when I would otherwise have to bear off the wind a bit to keep from losing speed. It’s tricky to specify its low end at my weight (~90 kg) because I might be able to water start off a good river bump in fairly light wind with my HA1080, but maybe you’re riding in the ocean with current that behaves very differently. I’ll humbly take a guess at the range I’ve enjoyed it in…maybe 15 knots to 28 knots? We experience a wider wind range here, and there’s no doubt a big difference between riding in constant light wind versus light wind lulls that are frequently punctuated by stronger (helpful) gusts. Also, I’ve found that it stows rather nicely in its low end and rather difficultly (for me, so far) in overpowered conditions."

I asked him if he's maxed it out at all:

"Yeah, I’ve had it in strong gusty conditions. 35 gets exciting."

At 65kg the above makes me want a size around 3m for 17 to 30 knots. I doubt the 2.7 would be enough but it would be incredible if it is.

Piros said..
Starting to look pretty dam good. Hopefully get a go on it at the AWSI at Hood River in a month.

I was hoping to see footage of the launch of a completely soaked Orbit and how it drains

Anyone got a .gpx of a good PPC Orbit upwind session? I'd love to compare!

Thought I would provide some info and my experience with the 2.7m, 3.5m & the 4.5m. I have had the 2.7 & 3.5 for about 2-3 weeks. I tried the the 4.5 demo in hood river and felt that size was not for me. It does handle wind well but the size does not fit with my conditions or what I want to do while riding. The other 2 sizes work EXTREMELY well in my opinion. They have a extremely large range and the bar pressure is unlike anything I have flown. As the wind increases the bar pressure increases a bit but nothing like a single skin. The up wind angles are extremely good even if riding toe side. Single skins get really over powered for me if riding toe side and trying to beat to weather . These provide light feed back and don't need a harness. The brake line I find should be trimmed to feel, not just pulled in fully. If pulled in fully the wing will back stall severely especially if trying to pump up onto foil. My technique is to just sit on the board and trim the line till a good amount of power is felt in the wing. Then once standing you can bare off slightly and pump the board and wing to get up. The wings sit high in the wind window. Also the trim line can be pulled in slightly if bearing off hard. Stashing requires you burp the air out of the foils. The 2.7 can easily be held in your hand and the 3.5 is do able. I weight 150 lbs, F4 - 800 & 685 orca's. I feel the 2 m (which is on order) will solve the extreme wind range issues as the current single skins are super twitchy. Are these for everybody? Maybe not but after a slight adjustment period I can't see using anything else. The wings drain extremely well and the feel is so dampened and smooth its remarkable. WELL DONE PPC/NOVA and thank you for being innovative!!!!

ilboarder12 said..
@mproject

I demoed the 4.5m at the hatch a few days back and experienced post submersion relaunch.

Found getting the canopy on its back, lifting by the LE, and incrementally letting canopy inflate/water drain until it would fly. Had to be deliberate and methodical but didn't take long (~2min)

Wow.. around 2 minutes ...no wonder the influencer army isn't showing any videos of the fully submerged soaking wet launch and how to drag that 50 kilo water filled beast onto the board . Congrats for trying. 2 minutes sounds ...🫣

zero1 said..

countv said..
Thought I would provide some info and my experience with the 2.7m, 3.5m & the 4.5m. I have had the 2.7 & 3.5 for about 2-3 weeks. I tried the the 4.5 demo in hood river and felt that size was not for me. It does handle wind well but the size does not fit with my conditions or what I want to do while riding. The other 2 sizes work EXTREMELY well in my opinion. They have a extremely large range and the bar pressure is unlike anything I have flown. As the wind increases the bar pressure increases a bit but nothing like a single skin. The up wind angles are extremely good even if riding toe side. Single skins get really over powered for me if riding toe side and trying to beat to weather . These provide light feed back and don't need a harness. The brake line I find should be trimmed to feel, not just pulled in fully. If pulled in fully the wing will back stall severely especially if trying to pump up onto foil. My technique is to just sit on the board and trim the line till a good amount of power is felt in the wing. Then once standing you can bare off slightly and pump the board and wing to get up. The wings sit high in the wind window. Also the trim line can be pulled in slightly if bearing off hard. Stashing requires you burp the air out of the foils. The 2.7 can easily be held in your hand and the 3.5 is do able. I weight 150 lbs, F4 - 800 & 685 orca's. I feel the 2 m (which is on order) will solve the extreme wind range issues as the current single skins are super twitchy. Are these for everybody? Maybe not but after a slight adjustment period I can't see using anything else. The wings drain extremely well and the feel is so dampened and smooth its remarkable. WELL DONE PPC/NOVA and thank you for being innovative!!!!

Thanks for the notes. Two questions based on your experience:

1) I'm confused why a 2m is needed, as most people say you should size up on the Orbit. A 2m single skin parawing works well on the very windiest (summer) days of the year in the Gorge (most people don't even have a wing this small today). If we're meant to size up ~.5m, then I would expect the 2.7m Orbit to be an incredible high wind parawing that could replace a 2m single skin. If a 2m Orbit is also required, it seems to conflict with the idea that these Orbits have a better wind rage and you can have fewer in your quiver?

2) When getting on the board and up to your knees, are you able to place the wingtip on the water, or does this let water into the cells? In other words, does water only enter the cells when it's fully immersed, or also if you make a sloppy mistake and the parawing sits on the water?

The 2.7 orbit replaces my 3.0 & 2.4 Pocket rockets as far as range is concerned. The Gorge gets wind that exceeds those Parawing capabilities so the 2.0 will fill that range. Up to this point the 1.9 parawings have not been very good and have poor behaviour characteristics. The Orbit should smooth out the gusts and make this weather range more fun & manageable.

Regarding the second question I bring the wing down when starting off, but even if the wing takes on some water the moment you bring it off the water it drains. I am not trying to convince any one to purchase these parawings. I am only offering some info based on my experiences. Ultimately every one will chose what works best for them.

countv said..

zero1 said..

countv said..
Thought I would provide some info and my experience with the 2.7m, 3.5m & the 4.5m. I have had the 2.7 & 3.5 for about 2-3 weeks. I tried the the 4.5 demo in hood river and felt that size was not for me. It does handle wind well but the size does not fit with my conditions or what I want to do while riding. The other 2 sizes work EXTREMELY well in my opinion. They have a extremely large range and the bar pressure is unlike anything I have flown. As the wind increases the bar pressure increases a bit but nothing like a single skin. The up wind angles are extremely good even if riding toe side. Single skins get really over powered for me if riding toe side and trying to beat to weather . These provide light feed back and don't need a harness. The brake line I find should be trimmed to feel, not just pulled in fully. If pulled in fully the wing will back stall severely especially if trying to pump up onto foil. My technique is to just sit on the board and trim the line till a good amount of power is felt in the wing. Then once standing you can bare off slightly and pump the board and wing to get up. The wings sit high in the wind window. Also the trim line can be pulled in slightly if bearing off hard. Stashing requires you burp the air out of the foils. The 2.7 can easily be held in your hand and the 3.5 is do able. I weight 150 lbs, F4 - 800 & 685 orca's. I feel the 2 m (which is on order) will solve the extreme wind range issues as the current single skins are super twitchy. Are these for everybody? Maybe not but after a slight adjustment period I can't see using anything else. The wings drain extremely well and the feel is so dampened and smooth its remarkable. WELL DONE PPC/NOVA and thank you for being innovative!!!!

Thanks for the notes. Two questions based on your experience:

1) I'm confused why a 2m is needed, as most people say you should size up on the Orbit. A 2m single skin parawing works well on the very windiest (summer) days of the year in the Gorge (most people don't even have a wing this small today). If we're meant to size up ~.5m, then I would expect the 2.7m Orbit to be an incredible high wind parawing that could replace a 2m single skin. If a 2m Orbit is also required, it seems to conflict with the idea that these Orbits have a better wind rage and you can have fewer in your quiver?

2) When getting on the board and up to your knees, are you able to place the wingtip on the water, or does this let water into the cells? In other words, does water only enter the cells when it's fully immersed, or also if you make a sloppy mistake and the parawing sits on the water?

The 2.7 orbit replaces my 3.0 & 2.4 Pocket rockets as far as range is concerned. The Gorge gets wind that exceeds those Parawing capabilities so the 2.0 will fill that range. Up to this point the 1.9 parawings have not been very good and have poor behaviour characteristics. The Orbit should smooth out the gusts and make this weather range more fun & manageable.

Regarding the second question I bring the wing down when starting off, but even if the wing takes on some water the moment you bring it off the water it drains. I am not trying to convince any one to purchase these parawings. I am only offering some info based on my experiences. Ultimately every one will chose what works best for them.

I think your weight and foil choice embraces the 2m as well. I’m anxious to get the 3.5 and see what its max is for me.

Broomerang said..
Anyone on their new Orbit like to grace us with a drowned double skin video and what it takes to resuscitate and get it back in the air? Coz they look they'd be something of a sea anchor in the surf if things went awry.

The influencers aren't allowed to show it. It could 'drown' the product. Just like foil drive doesn't allow their influencers to never share the horrible FD prop in water sound 😉

Much likey 👍

So Good Jacko give me a yell when you get them. What sizes did you get.