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Wing foil brands copying America's Cup desings ?

2 years ago
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Wing Foiling
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FranP
FranP
158 posts
FranP FranP
158 posts
17 May 2024 3:46am
check those foils:

www.youtube.com/@americascup

Advanced boat foils are pretty similar on America's Cup edition in Barcelona, but no wing foil brand released something like that.

I'm conscious the program is different: while AC boards don't need to turn (ruder does it) and lift (flappers impulse the foil up ) their focus is on speed and glide.

why not copying AC foils ? are there physical differences like scale or speed (2-3x faster than wings) ??
Thatspec
Thatspec
447 posts
Thatspec Thatspec
447 posts
17 May 2024 9:16am
Those foils look remarkably like a Code R series and Armstrong DWP but even higher AR. I suppose they have control surfaces though.
SpokeyDoke
SpokeyDoke
130 posts
SpokeyDoke SpokeyDoke
130 posts
17 May 2024 10:06am
FranP said..
check those foils:

www.youtube.com/@americascup

Advanced boat foils are pretty similar on America's Cup edition in Barcelona, but no wing foil brand released something like that.

I'm conscious the program is different: while AC boards don't need to turn (ruder does it) and lift (flappers impulse the foil up ) their focus is on speed and glide.

why not copying AC foils ? are there physical differences like scale or speed (2-3x faster than wings) ??



Do we know what their foil sections look like?
Piros
Piros
QLD
7305 posts
Piros Piros
QLD, 7305 posts
17 May 2024 1:23pm
Armie Armstrong is best mates with NZ America's cup team so yeah tons of AC design concepts have been implemented in Armstrong foils.
FranP
FranP
158 posts
FranP FranP
158 posts
17 May 2024 3:01pm


Their desing priority is speed and they struggle to avoid cavitation because of the high speed (ultra low pressure in the foil surface--> boiling water --> attached air & bubbles --> + drag and reduced lift)

Just check at those foil outlines, completely different than ours:




Svendson
Svendson
58 posts
Svendson Svendson
58 posts
17 May 2024 3:57pm
FranP said..


Their desing priority is speed and they struggle to avoid cavitation because of the high speed (ultra low pressure in the foil surface--> boiling water --> attached air & bubbles --> increases drag and less lift)

Just check at those foil layouts, completely different than ours:

www.instagram.com/p/C7DsHENrqGq/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Exactly this!


Piros said..
Armie Armstrong is best mates with NZ America's cup team so yeah tons of AC design concepts have been implemented in Armstrong foils.

And I very strongly suspect this is why the original Armstrong HA foils are considered very high performance but not user friendly. That is exactly the design tradeoff corner the AC, A class catamarans, Moth, etc push in to.
Foxi
Foxi
154 posts
Foxi Foxi
154 posts
17 May 2024 4:27pm
FranP said..


Their desing priority is speed and they struggle to avoid cavitation because of the high speed (ultra low pressure in the foil surface--> boiling water --> attached air & bubbles --> + drag and reduced lift)

Just check at those foil outlines, completely different than ours:







Current Levitaz Race Winning Frontwing:




cornwallis
cornwallis
156 posts
cornwallis cornwallis
156 posts
17 May 2024 9:08pm



benyaman
benyaman
2 posts
benyaman benyaman
2 posts
18 May 2024 5:45am
The Starboard x 15 one design foils are very similar outline makes sense since they are designed by Martin Fischer who is an americas cup foil designer
Thatspec
Thatspec
447 posts
Thatspec Thatspec
447 posts
19 May 2024 12:31pm
One big difference, the big boat foils operate parallel with the surface, never healed over as in wingfoiling.
Jethrow
Jethrow
NSW
1282 posts
Jethrow Jethrow
NSW, 1282 posts
19 May 2024 4:46pm
Actually the foils on the new AC boats aren't parallel to the surface, visually they're at about 30 degrees!
FranP
FranP
158 posts
FranP FranP
158 posts
19 May 2024 2:55pm
Thatspec said..
One big difference, the big boat foils operate parallel with the surface, never healed over as in wingfoiling.


This is not relevant, related to foil outlines, IMHO.Wingfoil inclination as you pointed (roll tipically when sailing upwind or in surfing) doe not slow down speed (same drag than when sailing flat) and although glide might look lower, the "foil force vector" (pointing up, parallel to the mast) still compensates sailor inclinated force.
Shlogger
Shlogger
551 posts
Shlogger Shlogger
551 posts
20 May 2024 2:32am
And then there's our bulky inflatable wings vs their beautiful foiled sails. ??
miamiwngr
miamiwngr
92 posts
miamiwngr miamiwngr
92 posts
20 May 2024 7:15am
www.sail-world.com/photo/346441

Target speeds for the smaller ac40 training boats. Impressive numbers
TooMuchEpoxy
TooMuchEpoxy
451 posts
TooMuchEpoxy TooMuchEpoxy
451 posts
20 May 2024 8:07am
Sailing-foiling is absolutely idiotic. The foiling moths are effectively controlled by mechanical computers and the AC boats are controlled by actual computers. Kiter/Wingers/SurfFoilers are the only sailers actually controlling the foil with our brains. I could care less what the AC is doing i quit sailboat racing 10 years ago for a reason!
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