tartine forum posts in last 60 days

BWalnut said..
I used to ride AFS but have never tried Sabfoil. Any reason you are trying to choose between those two? Just because it's locally produced?

Locally made is part of the appeal, locally available is another one.

I like the idea of a brand owning their full process, and eventually try something different like the sea devil.

I am from wave surfing and I enjoyed trying different shapes that emerged from people garage: Simons , bonzer, stubby ...
It taught me a lot too, I imagine that maybe AFS and sabfoil to be the closest to that.

FranP said..
I think we're missing the point of my original question...

Of course, Code, F4, Hydrocraft and others have talented designers with years of experience. I'm not questioning that at all.

But the foil industry is becoming increasingly mature. After several years of intense R&D, designs are getting more refined, and meaningful performance differences are becoming harder to achieve.

Also, being an exceptional rider doesn't necessarily make you an exceptional hydrodynamic engineer.

Larger brands (Duotone, Armstrong, F-One...) although they are actual small companies 😀 ...theoretically have significant advantages: bigger R&D budgets, access to CFD simulations, the ability to build and test numerous prototypes, and larger teams of riders providing feedback across different conditions and riding styles.

I fully appreciate that small teams can be more agile, innovative and less constrained by corporate decisions. And clearly, some designers are exceptionally talented.
But my question remains: how can a tiny team, with a fraction of the resources, develop a foil that outperforms products from established brands that have invested millions and years in R&D?


Is it mainly exceptional individual talent, a more focused development process, or simply that having more resources doesn't necessarily lead to better foil designs?

That's what I find fascinating about brands like Hydrocraft, Code and others ...

"exceptional hydrodynamic engineer"

Hydrodynamic engineering and making good foils are two different things.

I think it can be easy to over estimate the usefulness of simulation softwares. As far as I know they never brought anything to wave surfing shape, and whatever their output is worthless until you made empirical experiment anyway.

I am not sure if you can simulate all the complex situations of what happens when you ride a wave for example.

Though i x foils podcast hydrocraft mentioned their use of simulation tool, so it seems accessible enough to outsider company too.

Good , cause the quest was 2 times more expensive.

Hi folks,

I am new to parawing and quite new to foiling in general.
When I had wind conditions that are too strong for my 5m I tried few times a frigate v1 3.5m and even an element freefly 2.8m and it was out of control way beyond just being overpowered and I could not do anything.
There could be partly a skill issue but still, it felt like all skills in the world would not make it practical.

Why is that ?
Is it technically gusts , or more about turbulence (can it be separate things?).
Is it mostly due to wing wrapping around the coast or it is the nature of the wind?
How to predict those conditions?

My take was that high top end does not necessarily means controllable.

Would a double skin or hybrid or whatever help to not waste those sessions ?

Thanks.

And yes, I switch to parawing after only a few session of winging.

BWalnut said..
Honestly, IMO, the forums are not the best place to ask a question like this. You really need to tap into local knowledge. Everyones location is different and things that work locally don't work globally.

Once you are actively parawinging and running into issues, the forums become a bit more useful. This is because you should be able to explain what your problem is at your local spot and why you or others might be struggling. That's when people with broader global knowledge can share experiences with how to give direction.

To answer your question: "Mast size, aspect ratio, span, what does matter?" Everything. Every single detail matters. The wind direction, your board, the tail, fuse, it all matters. Which is why nobody has completely figured out foiling yet!

I wish but it looks like parawinging is not much of a thing here and same for downwinding. I heard about a guy hunting ferry wakes that's it.
So even if this is not the most tailored advice there is good learning for me in ZeroVix post; then it is my part to put it into perspective.

"Unprovoked " ?

Based of how one is dressed ?

hilly said..
The main problem is everyone has a different level of skill and desire for what they want to accomplish. What I like is different to most other people so demo is the only way to go. Shops and brand reps like Stand up shop in Fremantle are awesome in giving out demo gear for you to try. That is the best way to find the perfect setup for you is to ride it. I have wasted a lot of money listening to other people’s views on foils and wings.

I can only agree with the common advices about, start by taking lessons, befriend with a local shop and riders, go when wind is 20 knots-ish and no chop, try stuff, do not go alone, etc.

But then you are in a place with barely no shop shop around, no other riders where/when you go, and not much of a kite or sail background (and an finite budget).

What is left is mostly influencers' s enthusiastic videos/podcast and forum like this one where people keep questioning each other objectivity (which I am tempted to find healthy).

I found on on a thread that a guy complained to discover that a high tier board they ordered was way heavier than expected. This is objective data that people can make available to each other, does not involve human or AI bias , could help you filter out a lot of product when you have to pick one.

Then if you gather data of people about their gear, (what they find useful to share) then you know what they mostly did not sell after the first session. It is not the best reference but that look like a better starting point that the current statu quo.

And that tells you about the market (including second hand) and what is compatible with what easily.

Tha may free up room for more involved threads here?

But if 90% of people around have a gang and a friendly local shop and opportunities to test before buying then, fair enough, such wiki/DB is not justified.

Hi,
I am starting wingfoiling recently and quickly been driven by the idea of downwinding; but is that possible where I am riding ? This is Baltic sea south of Denmark, there is wind and chop most of the time, but is that enough ? Can you ride even the smallest chop ever ?

Hi folks,
Is there somewhere an "exhaustive enough" "sort of database/wiki" about wingfoil?
As a newcomer I found it extremely hard to figure out what gear is compatible with what, what discipline it is targeting.
(Feels like brands are making their best to name things in a way that never helps)
Any silly manga or videogame end up have fluffy wiki: never happened for foil?