And if all else fails - a sound crack around the earhole with one of those old fashioned wooden blackboard rulers.

Nobody should have to put up with abuse and/or humiliation in any line of work.

I'm not sure we are ever gonna see the resumption of caning again, and it can be open to abuse (had a psycho depty head back in the day that used to really enjoy the use of it) but if the little teerd's M.O. is to humiliate you, then likewise, he should be made to take any punsihment in front of his peers and others in a humiliating fashion (like in front of school assembly).

If he sneers, or makes light of it, and tries to wash it off, seeya back again for next assembly.. and again. Until the realisation that he has fkd up sinks in..

Good ol' signage around the kneck proclaiming "I have exposed myself in public and would be charged as a sex pest in society" may do the trick.

Mark _australia said...

Disgusting. Suspension is no punishment to kids who often don't want to be at school, and a principal who takes the kid's word over yours should be shot (especially when he has obviously been in trouble before)

Dunno about there but in WA law parents can still smack a kid and teachers are in the same boat - lawful chastisement of a child.
So if a teacher did it here they would be legally covered - but it is Ed Dept policy that you can't touch a kid. It is the social engineers who have stuffed it by coming up with policies like that.

2000 years of appropriate balance between punishment and reward and things were fine.
20 years of the 'we know better' crowd and look at how things are out of control.

(1) cane the kid
(2) the parents need a heads up too, I bet many of them defend the kid, and even worse do it within earshot so he learns he will get away with it.


Liz, teachers like you having a gutful of it are the only ones that will be able to change this mess ...so tell anyone who will listen

Agree with shooting that idiot! How did he get his job??? He must be friend of a....??? Great boss to have!

While I understand the calls for the cane, I believe it's pointless to do it. I grew up in an era where caning in school (and whacking kids generally) was accepted as the norm. Once got whacked over the knee in year 6 with a blackboard duster by an irate male teacher for talking. Bl##dy hurt, I can tell you! Also copped the cane a few times.

Caning was common in high school where it was often done in front of the assembly by the deputy head. If not the deputy then one of the head teachers, either in private in the staff rooms or in front of the class. Six (3 per hand) was the accepted maximum but really, it was up to whoever was swinging the cane.

I can tell you it made stuff-all difference. It was overwhelmingly the same kids ended up getting caned over and again basically for being snots and little pricks. It was a badge of honour to be caned. The aim was not to flinch because that'd be taken as a sign of weakness by everyone else. Certainly didn't change anyone's behaviour. Kids that were deterred by the cane would have been well behaved in the first place so caning was irrelevant.

Liz, how old is this kid? Sounds probably 8-12 age bracket? Maybe early teens? Nothing is more important to a kid that age than their esteem within their peer group.

Personally I think the idea of compulsory schooling needs to be considered. Some kids don't seem suited for school, especially as they become teenagers. They make school life difficult for the rest of the school community. If society and politicians insist that kids stay at school to X age perhaps alternative forms of education need to be found for students who cannot sit still or are defiant to teachers. You end up with the sad situation of students sitting their HSC with special provisions for readers and writers. Not because they have broken their arm and can't write, but because they are illiterate.

The automatic grading up of school students every year could be considered too. If students were expected to achieve a certain level of accomplishment before moving onto the next level then perhaps it would encourage kids who are a bit slack to put in some work so they are not left behind their classmates. Also it could reward students who are doing well by advancing them to higher classes.

Teaching can be an extremely rewarding and an extremely difficult profession. Its hard to feel any professional satisfaction if you've spent your energy trying to get your students in line.

For the future I think in NSW at least the trends are not good. We increasingly segregate students with better students passing tests to go to selective high schools. Plus more kids are enrolling in private schools which can have more effective discipline standards, plus they can expel the really disruptive kids. Whats left for the comprehensive high schools?

UPDATE : The union responded practically saying that it wasn't dealt with appropriately and that the rep would make contact with the Principal tomorrow to sort something out. She was shocked about how it was dealt with and the sexual nature of it should be passed onto Childrens Services.

Updated the Principal on this this afternoon and the scenarios. I was asked, "so what did you want to happen that didn't happen!?"... [}:)] Are you serious!?

Will be interesting...

I think we need to take a few steps back. The onus should not be on the Teachers to be the primary disciplinarians, it should be done at home. When i was at school 35+ years ago, if I played up I was punished, in this case by the cane or detention. If I went home and told my parents I received extra punishment from them because, believe it or not, I deserved it. They didn't storm up to the school and cause a scene, sue the school or contact the Education Dept. Looking back now I see the vast majority of my generation have grown up to become model citizens so it must have worked.
The difference is, my parents (of 4 children) took parenthood seriously, we were treated according to our ages and as we grew were given more responsibility and if we mucked up our activities were curtailed for a while and we were disciplined accordingly.
Unfortunately, what we see today is two parents living seperate, selfish lives and wanting the "trophy" child or children, wanting to be their "friends" not their parents, instead of growing some backbone and being both. It is possible, however, it means making a few tough calls along the way to guide and nuture their children. What makes it hard for them to do that is they are too busy enjoying their own lives and trying to dump responsibiltiy for little Johnny or little Martha on anybody else including Grandparents and Government Dept's. When my wife and I decided to have children we tightened the belt, my wife gave up work for 20 years and has just gone back part time in the last couple of years. It was tough at times, however we can look back now and think we have done the best we could have.
Until parents start to take some or all responsibilty for their children things will continue to go down the toilet. (disclaimer - I acknowledge there are the very small % of kids who are just plain trouble and always will be no matter what).
I feel very sorry for Teachers and authority figures today who have to deal with the left overs of lazy, arrogant parents not shouldering any responsibility for their offspring. I also feel very sorry for the children who have been given no direction.

Show the principle your @rse and see if he/she thinks everything is ok with that.

(May lead to a promotion too )

Er.. more seriously.. Unless the kid has a mental condition he should not be allowed to attend school with a history of inappropriate and overtly sexual behaviour. If he does have a mental condition he should be schooled in a more suitable environment.. but that is a whole other can of worms..

Let me know how the promotion goes Ms B.

elizabethb said...


That's my plan when I'm older and don't want to have to focus as much on behaviour and just teach.

I believe if I do the hard yards now it may at least make some difference on the 150 students a year I teach.... Over 10 or 20 years that's a lot of students I have hopefully made more respectful, mathematically smarter and caring people.

At least I can hope...

.

I believe it would be mathematically more accurate to say 1500-3000 students. glad to see you followed through on the previous avatar
My kids go to a school that is a real shocker for behavior and academic achievement, but it really is just a few families that bring the school down.yet the medium to smart kids will keep on trying hard to ignore the idiots and pay attention to a good teacher . one of your challenges is to be able to rise above the bad students and make sure the others learn something each day, even if it is patience.
I get a sense that the kid is slowly building up to a real effort to get your attention, and he will pay the cost, If you vcan get past that point your other students will know you as a great teacher as they will see through the bad students too.
It always impresses me that the kids that really achieve things at our school manage it it in such adverse conditions

elizabethb said...

BulldogPup - We have a few I could use, but again I want my job lol. As the teacher across from me yelled at her class, my class said, "Miss Teachers shouldn't be allowed to yell at students", so I casually held the 1m long wooden ruler and said I agree, as long as I can use something else... They thought it was hilarious - at least they know my humour.

Diver - To put it as respectfully and maturely as I can, our Principal (she) is all about climbing the EQ ladder and making herself look good; the school has gone down so rapidly it isn't funny.

felixdcar - HE.... HE... The Principal is a SHE... It's a whole other 'vote of no confidence' potentially if things continue.

Gizmo - Hopefully she is teaching somewhere else because sometimes they need the threat to be strong and better than what their parents can give them. Good on her!

someotherguy - He is 14... Principal isn't doing anything, doesn't know and appears not to care what goes on in the classroom, as long as it looks good to everyone else outside of the school. We were even told STEP BY STEP how to fill out our staff opinion survey; which means we all ignored her and blasted her opinions out of the way! Makes me angry.[}:)]

laceys lane - he doesn't want boundaries; I've wasted so many 1 hour detentions in the afternoon for the first semester making sure he caught up with the work he missed in class when he was always suspended. This didn't improve results or behaviour. The other students in the class are happier and work a hundred times better when he is not there always talking, seeking attention, talking inapproipriately, even to himself and no one else to just get attention; ignoring didn't even work.

gunna1 - So hard to ensure the parents are doing their job, when their child responds more to me than their own parent. Just unbelievable. STOP being friends with your children - I agree

sounds like he has real problems- maybe that should be looked into carefully. you maybe taking on more than you should be. wonder what the other kids parents think of having this boy in the classroom with their kids?

respectfully

lotofwind said...

Sex should be only done wearing a condom,
No more kids that suck.Problem solved.

I can't do the "doodle-strangler" thing Windy - but have got sick of the Turd-child syndrome here in WA anyhoo jmo

UPDATE

ahhh well... I was taken up to the Office with Deputy and HOD (who hasnt helped) and told not to talk to the union again until I ask them first etc., and the reasons nothings been done etc.

HOD yelled... i mean YELLED at me in front of deputy... Informed union of that now too.. Kids parents are not able to be contacted thus nothing been done yet but supposedly he's meant to be at the office each lesson (which I've not been told of anything after 1.5 weeks).

Anyway... What does this mean? School has NO hope [}:)]

BulldogPup said...

lotofwind said...

Sex should be only done wearing a condom,
No more kids that suck.Problem solved.

I can't do the "doodle-strangler" thing Windy - but have got sick of the Turd-child syndrome here in WA anyhoo jmo

Just can't stand the sound of screaming woman and the smell of burning rubber

elizabethb said...

UPDATE

ahhh well... I was taken up to the Office with Deputy and HOD (who hasnt helped) and told not to talk to the union again until I ask them first etc., and the reasons nothings been done etc.

HOD yelled... i mean YELLED at me in front of deputy... Informed union of that now too.. Kids parents are not able to be contacted thus nothing been done yet but supposedly he's meant to be at the office each lesson (which I've not been told of anything after 1.5 weeks).

Anyway... What does this mean? School has NO hope [}:)]

HOD, do the mongrel for workplace harassment and intimidation.[}:)]
Demand he attend workplace counselling session in regards to HR protocols.
Ask for at least a break from the classroom for say Summer time and kite season to allow you to consider your position, and possible litigation against the department.
By the time the goose works through all that crap, his job will be tin fruited, and he may as well pull the pin and get a job on the shire pushing a broom.
Problem solved

Has a teacher ever taken out an AVO against a school student in Australia? There would be many cases where an AVO could be justified. I was teaching at a high school in a small NSW country town. One student there was very intelligent but had real emotional issues. He was disruptive in classes. He threw a rock through the window of our house one Friday night. He tried to blow up our letter box with firecrackers.

The year after we left this town and moved to Sydney he and a friend made the national news. Another student advised the principal the two of them had drawn up a hit list of teachers and students to kill in the school. They were sent to a mental health unit in a nearby town. I would imagine after threats and attempts at intimidation could justify an AVO.

The negatives of an AVO of course would be the fact that the teacher would be seen as being weak in that they rely on the police and the courts. The positive is the student would be out of the school. It would make the department of education take note too.

After all this he still could not be expelled from school.