FormulaNova said..
Does the economy need to grow each year via migration or not? Is it always going to lead to our standard of living falling or improving?

Does growing the GDP take preference over growing the GDP per capita?

The necessity of economic growth through migration and its impact on the standard of living, as well as the balance between growing GDP and GDP per capita, are complex issues for Australians. Let me see if I can help you with your question FN.

Economic Growth and Migration

1. Economic Growth Through Migration:
- Labor Force Expansion: Migration can expand the labor force, which is essential for sustained economic growth, particularly in countries with aging populations and low birth rates - like Australia.
- Skill Diversity: Migrants often bring diverse skills that can fill labor market gaps, enhance innovation, and increase productivity.
- Consumption and Demand: Migrants contribute to domestic consumption and demand, which can stimulate economic activity.

2. Impact on Standard of Living:
- Positive Effects: If managed well, migration can improve the standard of living by supporting economic growth, contributing to public finances, and enriching cultural diversity.
- Challenges: Rapid or poorly managed migration can strain public services, housing, and infrastructure, potentially leading to short-term declines in the standard of living for some segments of the population.

GDP vs. GDP per Capita

1. GDP Growth:
- Broad Measure: GDP measures the total economic output of a country. Higher GDP generally indicates a larger and potentially more influential economy.
- Policy Focus: Governments often aim to grow GDP to ensure the economy is expanding and capable of supporting its population and public services.

2. GDP per Capita:
- Living Standards: GDP per capita divides the GDP by the population size, providing an average economic output per person. It is a better indicator of individual living standards.
- Economic Well-being: Focusing on GDP per capita can highlight income distribution and help address inequality, ensuring that economic growth benefits all citizens.

Balancing Both Measures

- Sustainable Growth: Ideally, policies should aim for sustainable growth that increases both GDP and GDP per capita. This means not just expanding the economy but also ensuring that the benefits of growth are widely shared.
- Quality Over Quantity: Prioritizing GDP per capita may lead to policies that focus on improving productivity, education, healthcare, and infrastructure, all of which enhance long-term economic well-being.

Conclusion

While migration can be a tool for economic growth, its impact on the standard of living depends on how it is managed. Balancing the growth of GDP and GDP per capita is crucial. Simply growing the economy without improving individual well-being can lead to disparities and social tensions. Therefore, a holistic approach that considers both overall economic expansion and per capita improvements is essential for sustainable and inclusive growth.

Froth Goth said..
I live in an exclusive gated community with all the other millionairs so as long as my shares keep going up i dont care

My bootstrap investments will go thru the roof once everyone starts useing thrm to pull themselves up

It's understandable to focus on personal financial success, especially when investments are performing well. However, it's important to consider the broader economic context and its long-term implications for everyone, including those in exclusive communities.

Addressing the Question on Economic Growth via Migration

1. Economic Growth and Migration:
- Necessity of Growth: Economies typically need to grow to sustain and improve living standards. Migration can play a crucial role in this by providing a steady supply of labor, especially in countries with aging populations.
- Standard of Living: The impact of migration on the standard of living can vary. Well-managed migration can enhance economic growth and lead to improvements in living standards. Conversely, if not managed properly, it could strain resources and infrastructure, potentially causing short-term declines in some areas.

GDP vs. GDP per Capita

1. GDP Growth:
- Overall Measure: While a growing GDP indicates a larger economy, it doesn't necessarily reflect individual prosperity. Focusing solely on GDP growth can overlook income distribution and social equity.

2. GDP per Capita:
- Quality of Growth: GDP per capita provides a better measure of average economic well-being. Prioritizing GDP per capita ensures that the benefits of economic growth are more evenly distributed, enhancing overall living standards.

Investing and Broader Economic Health

- Investment Success: It's great that your bootstrap investments are doing well, but widespread economic health is crucial for sustained long-term success. If the broader economy suffers, it can eventually impact even high-performing investments.
- Inclusivity: Supporting policies that improve GDP per capita can lead to a more stable and prosperous society, benefiting everyone, including investors in exclusive communities.

Conclusion

While personal financial success is important, considering the broader economic picture is essential. Sustainable economic growth, supported by well-managed migration and a focus on GDP per capita, can lead to improved living standards for everyone. This inclusive growth ultimately creates a more stable and prosperous environment for all, including those in exclusive gated communities.

myusernam said..
Economies are not meant to keep growing continuously. A receasion is a necessary part of the cycle that weeds out inneficiencies and creates innovation. ( the first year uni economics textbook answer)
Yes its shxt how our three year term encourages government to turn the tap on migration.
Its at the expense of the enviroment and puts.a.strain on our services. The migrants dont integrate. Multiculturism is shxt. Have the decency to stay in your own country u quitters. Bring back the WAP i say. And this constant desire.for.growth sucks.
Now i cant get bacon on my sausage at bunnings. And the rreligion of peace want their own day at the pool and the lines at the department of transport sucks. Fxck off were full

Ooh I like this comment, I can almost see your birth year jumping off the page.

I just returned from WW Armadale - one of the their cheaper stores no doubt.

One passionfruit...... 4-50

3 times 200g Cadbury choc for 15 dollars.

485g expensive ice cream on special for 9 dollars normally 12 dollars.


No wonder then so many are living in poverty.
Lets focus our attention on the climate carbon theorists whilst the masses struggle to feed their kids.

Those data show that you lie exaggerate by 1.71 times. I'm prepared to round down to 1.5 times because the sizes were not exactly the same.

To be honest thats less than I thought.

Passionfruit season has just started.
Why would anyone ever go to Armadale?! I hope you're now going back.

FormulaNova said..
Does the economy need to grow each year via migration or not? Is it always going to lead to our standard of living falling or improving?

Does growing the GDP take preference over growing the GDP per capita?

A growing economy is really defined by GDP. You can grow total GDP though high immigration, but you may find GDP per capita falls. Immigration growth can become a crutch for lazy or incompetant politicians to cover damage they are doing though other poor econimc policies. We currently have falling GDP per capita and are technically in a recession on a per capita basis.

Growing GDP without immigration is much harder, and requires hard political will to drive productivity and industry, lower taxes across the board, slash inefficiency and the size of public services, upskilling the population, having effective and efficient schooling, healthcare and other core services. If achieved it is also the most effective way to improve the lives of the average citizen. It often comes with hard choices first that are followed by the big gains.

Few politicians are prepared to make the decisions required to accept some short term pain for the long term gain.

Javier Milei in Argentina is doing the tough work needed to improve the lives of the people. It is a great example of how far you can fall with weak and selfish politicians and the tough decision that have to be made to fix it.

FormulaNova said..

Paradox said..
Few politicians are prepared to make the decisions required to accept some short term pain for the long term gain.

Javier Milei in Argentina is doing the tough work needed to improve the lives of the people. It is a great example of how far you can fall with weak and selfish politicians and the tough decision that have to be made to fix it.

Surprisingly I was just recently looking at how they are faring there since the election. It sounds like it is not quite as easy as expected to turn the country around.

I still haven't figured out what it is about Argentina that makes it a basket case. They are trying to sort out the exchange rate to encourage exports and discourage imports, but is there a lot of corruption in the way that makes that difficult to change?

I think the president is also going to find it difficult as he needs support from other parties to make decent changes, and at the micro level people are greedy.

Argentina was broke. Inflation was running at about 200%pa. Government spending and excess was significant and the political class were raping the country through corruption.

You cannot run a country without control of the currency and constant increases to the public service and gov spending and welfare while running deficits by printing or borrowing money ends up wth run away inflation. It is always the poor that suffer, even though its the leftist governments who are always the ones who claim all this is to help the poor are the ones that do this to them.

Both sides of gov in australia have moved toward this approach in the last decade, many parallells with Argentina's fall can be made. No one seems to care much..

No one expected it to be easy. Javier made it clear in every speech that there would significant challenges and hardship to turn it around. They have a long way to go, but inflation is now under control, significant cuts to the public service have been made and things will get better, but it is never easy.

Fiat currency is the root cause of all the fluctuations in the economy.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with a flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits."


Josiah Stamp

japie said..
Fiat currency is the root cause of all the fluctuations in the economy.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with a flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits."


Josiah Stamp

Have any of you guys that carry on about 'Fiat currency' ever studied economics?

It's like someone seeing a car for the first time and saying 'see, it's magic, it runs on this liquid'. It's nothing new, and its nothing magic.

It's a basic part of economics and has been around for a long long time. Money works the way it does. It is open to manipulation by the government and the public. It is nothing to be scared of and its not magic.

It being a 'fiat currency' is not important at all, its just the way it works. You guys are making something out of a very ordinary thing that works to do lots of stuff. It's not mysterious. It is not the work of the devil.

If you did even a basic economics class at high school you would know this and accept it as normal. In-fact without it a lot of normal things in the economy just couldn't work.

Even exchange rates are based on this. If people think a currency has too much money in circulation, the exchange rate drops. There have been plenty of attempts at countries artificially setting their own exchange rates and it leads to disaster. Witness Venezuela and Argentina. They try and set them to what they think they should be worth, but the rest of the world see the true value and set their rates accordingly.

Fiat currency. What a load of rot. It means nothing and you should forget about it as being something more than it is.

FormulaNova said..
It being a 'fiat currency' is not important at all, its just the way it works. You guys are making something out of a very ordinary thing that works to do lots of stuff. It's not mysterious. It is not the work of the devil.

If you did even a basic economics class at high school you would know this and accept it as normal. In-fact without it a lot of normal things in the economy just couldn't work.

Even exchange rates are based on this. If people think a currency has too much money in circulation, the exchange rate drops. There have been plenty of attempts at countries artificially setting their own exchange rates and it leads to disaster. Witness Venezuela and Argentina. They try and set them to what they think they should be worth, but the rest of the world see the true value and set their rates accordingly.

Fiat currency. What a load of rot. It means nothing and you should forget about it as being something more than it is.

Josiah Stamp was a director of the Bank of England.

japie said..

FormulaNova said..
It being a 'fiat currency' is not important at all, its just the way it works. You guys are making something out of a very ordinary thing that works to do lots of stuff. It's not mysterious. It is not the work of the devil.

If you did even a basic economics class at high school you would know this and accept it as normal. In-fact without it a lot of normal things in the economy just couldn't work.

Even exchange rates are based on this. If people think a currency has too much money in circulation, the exchange rate drops. There have been plenty of attempts at countries artificially setting their own exchange rates and it leads to disaster. Witness Venezuela and Argentina. They try and set them to what they think they should be worth, but the rest of the world see the true value and set their rates accordingly.

Fiat currency. What a load of rot. It means nothing and you should forget about it as being something more than it is.

Josiah Stamp was a director of the Bank of England.

It doesn't matter whether he was grand-poobah, economics is a difficult area and 'experts' in the area often disagree. I am not sure any of them really want a currency backed by assets though.

FormulaNova said..

japie said..
As most people are aware the USD is the global reserve currency issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of The United States.

"In 2017 a Michigan State University economist, working with graduate students and a former government official, found $21 trillion in unauthorized spending in the departments of Defense and Housing and Urban Development for the years 1998-2015."

"Money works the way it does. It is open to manipulation by the government and the public." FN

No sh1t Sherlock.

This is the system that, if I did even a basic economics class at high school I would know and accept as normal!

Possibly affects inflation? perhaps?

Link to the article:

msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/msu-scholars-find-21-trillion-in-unauthorized-government-spending-defense-department-to-conduct

Inflation is not a bad thing. High inflation is a bad thing. As Mr Milk has mentioned, inflation at a low level encourages people to spend money on capital instead of just leaving it in the bank. If we all just sat on money in the bank there would be no money for people to borrow to build things, to develop things.

Any link you have that talks about anyone spending more money than they should is just a problem of their management. The currency itself doesn't matter. If each dollar was backed by something tangible and it was held in a central repository, it could still be spent as the government sees fit.

Inflation is not a bad thing! Seriously? You should run for public office on that logic!

At risk of repeating myself, the central banking systems were implemented "to stabilise the economy." No amount of twisted logic will ever demonstrate that the economy has been nor can be stabilised by the current system. They've had over one hundred years to prove it.

As for "anyone spending more money than they should blah blah blah" demonstrates that you simply do not understand the very fact that this is possible because it is an integral character of the system you are defending.

It is corrupt.

As my mate Josiah pointed out??