DunkO said...

doggie said...

DunkO said...

Jradedmondo said...

just look at it like this, if your one of the many law abiding citizens then you have nothing to worry about, but if you break the law dont bitch when you get tasered or shot you obviously did something for the cops to resort to that

Jarryd

Like the brazilian lad who stole a pack of biscuits, got tasered and died.

Dont steal and you wont get tazered.

people can make mistakes, they don't deserve to die for them.

Yeah, about the Brazilian young bloke,
If 5 well trained police officers cant take down 1 unarmed person,even if he was on drugs, there is something really wrong.
Surely 5 men , that are trained in holding a person who is trying to escape, all jumping on 1 person could of contolled him?
Why didnt they have a swing at the knees with their night night sticks?
5 men swinging sticks to the legs and arms would have stopped him instead of killing him.
I would hate to do the job of the police, but shouldnt they be fit and quick ,be able to do their job of controlling unarmed people?
If the person has a knife or gun,,,I say shoot away, but if unarmed and well and truely out numbered, I would think the cops were either under trained or overweight,under fit, traffic controllers.

Mark _australia said...

^^^ So as the 5 coppers engage this guy who is really going off, before they get him under control, or able to hit him with a 'night stick' one of the cops will get hit sometimes.

What is acceptable? A black eye now and then? Broken nose? Maybe a kick in the nuts that ends up in him being sterile for life (look up the definition of grievous bodily harm sometime).
Maybe now and then a good one is landed that results ina copper getting knocked out, hits his head and dies? (look at one punch stuff all over the news lately)

If they have the modern tech let them use it. No I am not saying shoot unarmed people, but you make it sound like every unarmed person should be engaged with no assistance or it is all easy like a Jackie Chan movie.

"5 men swinging sticks" was the Rodney King "beating" and that worked out well didn't it.

Would you suggest the same if your wife / girlfriend / sister was a copper and came home with a broken nose and said "oh if we outnumber them we can only baton them, IF we can get close enough without being snotted"

when he was shot he was running away, not attacking?

Bang on DunkO,

^^ Dunko I was not referring to the guy being shot, I was referring to lotofwind's comments like " If 5 well trained police officers cant take down 1 unarmed person,even if he was on drugs, there is something really wrong.
Surely 5 men , that are trained in holding a person who is trying to escape, all jumping on 1 person could of contolled him?" which is crap. Somebody will get hurt.

Safe distance you say?
Seeing as though a Taser is useful over what, 5 metres IF you can hit the moving target with 2 darts, what do you consider a "safe" distance.
Tell you what, a challenge. Let's get the top 50 UFC cage fighters in Australia, you get to pick any one of them, and stand 5m away and react with a taser when they run at you. Then if you miss, after he has hit you a few times the other 4 mates get to help you wrestle him. Sound like a job you'd like to do?
I'd rather crooks get Tasered than cops get hit. Keep the safe distance.

Not about the above^^^^ bout the brazilian bloke.
Ummmmmm,,he was running away from them.
Im sure he wasnt thinking whilst running,"If only I could kick one of them in the nuts to make them sterile" LOL

You would think that 5 well trained people could bring down one unarmed man.
If it means that one person brakes a nail or gets a black eye,in the line of duty, its gotta be better than someones kid getting killed because he may have taken a biscuit?

A bit like a fire fighter saying "I might get a bit of a burn if I go in there, so I wont try" .. I think when you take on that type of job, you know that there are risks and injuries will happen.
But I guess in this case , inocent till proven guilty, was decided without being guilty of a crime worth death.

Mark _australia said...

lotofwind said...

Ummmmmm,,he was running away from them.
Im sure he wasnt thinking whilst running,"If only I could kick one of them in the nuts to make them sterile" LOL

You would think that 5 well trained people could bring down one man.
If it means that one person brakes a nail or gets a black eye, its gotta be better than someones kid getting killed because he may have taken a biscuit?

I never said they should kill him. But you DO assert that they should always run after him and tackle him. So just as they get to him, he stops, turns and sticks a knife in one of the coppers. Is that OK?
Or when they sucessfully tackle him, if he looks like resisting they baton him. That is the Rodney King scenario exactly - was that OK? In the eyes of the judiciary and media it was not.

But he didnt pull a knife??? If he pulled a knife or gun then taser away.He was unarmed.
And the Rodney King thing,, they kept beating the crap out of him when he was already stuffed. They may as well of shot him.

Dunko and Lotofwind you miss the point. I am not condoning shooting an unarmed (and later found to be innocent) person. Nor do I condone the Rodney King thing. If he was tasered he'd have had 5sec of discomfort and unhurt.

What I do take issue with is Lotofwind's statement that it is so easy for 5 blokes to subdue one bloke, and implying we should accept collateral damage (coppers being hurt or crook being hurt) which is patently untrue.... and then Dunko saying the coppers taser people from a "safe" distance (implying they are taking the gutless way out). 5m is not safe even if they are unarmed.

stuk said...



Judge not from the media perspective, but wait for full and complete coronarial enquiry.

If it wasn't for the media, would we know anything of what happened?

Just to refresh our memories, could you link to the coronial enquiry as the shooting on Bondi Beach of Roni Levi, armed with a knife, and with much room for the police to run away from a man with a knife. Unrelated, but perhaps valid - what of one the officers depicted by the media as holding a gun each before Mr Levi. Didn't he get busted for drugs on a large scale some time later?

Getting off my high-horse, just where does one source Coronial reports?

As a yachtie, I wish to read more about the one where 4 died, 2 survived when a keel fell off at night out from NSW's N coast. How do I know as crew that a vessel is sea-worthy when I step aboard, Mr Coroner?
As a canyoner, I wish to read about the 3 guys of European extraction who went canyoning on the Blue Mountains, only to walk 180 degrees in the wrong direction from their car, one was to die; the other 2 carried the body for a few hours, or so it is said.
As someone who has kayaked the flooded Hawkesbury-Nepean, I want to hear more about the young man whose body was retrieved a few days back, after disappearing a few evenings before while testing a boat engine. My paddling can't wait two-and-a-half years for Coronial Enquiries to be finalised. It took that long for the findings in the matter of the passing of young bushwalker David Iredale to come forward. http://outdoorcouncil.asn.au/doc/Iredalefindings.pdf

Coronial enquiries are near non-existant, and/or are very difficult to find. In the falling death of Nick Kaz in January 2009 from a Grose Valley rockclimb, climbers take the investigations of local guidebook author Simon Carter's word as to what to look for in bolted-routes and sharp iron-stone edges; that link is now dead. So we look to the American Alpine Institute, and not the NSW coroner - alpineinstitute.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/bolt-failure-in-australia.html