Stupid theory

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petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
8 Jun 2010 2:35am
i am not denying what i said yesterday as well you know.

in my post yesterday i said i copied this from the infowars site. [ I even know about the Hologram theories, the Blue Beam theories and the Mini-nuke theories. I don’t postulate those,

from infowars site]



so one more time i am not denying what i said yesterday.

you can find it on the infowars website where i copied it from.

so anyone that has a different take on what went on that day,you believe their ideas to be stupid?

fire/planes causing a near free-fall collapse of 3 superstructures,to believe in that idea well.....


ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
8 Jun 2010 7:22am
petermac33 said...

i am not denying what i said yesterday as well you know.

in my post yesterday i said i copied this from the infowars site. [ I even know about the Hologram theories, the Blue Beam theories and the Mini-nuke theories. I don’t postulate those,

from infowars site]



so one more time i am not denying what i said yesterday.

you can find it on the infowars website where i copied it from.

so anyone that has a different take on what went on that day,you believe their ideas to be stupid?

fire/planes causing a near free-fall collapse of 3 superstructures,to believe in that idea well.....





why don't we leave the infowars content on the infowars site and use "links" to show it...



sausage
sausage
QLD
4874 posts
QLD, 4874 posts
8 Jun 2010 9:22am
I suppose they'll tell me the moon landings were faked next.
westozwind
westozwind
WA
1419 posts
WA, 1419 posts
8 Jun 2010 9:17am
stupidity link to unverified source proving that there was no moon landing

[cut & paste]SPAM from my mail box this morning claiming that an eclipse is going to cause an earthquake which will in turn cause a devastating tsunami. The ********* guys CAUSED the eclipse[/cut & paste]

Is cut and paste a valid way to spread SPAM? It's usally designed to clog mail boxes, not forums.
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
8 Jun 2010 11:10am
sausage said...

I suppose they'll tell me the moon landings were faked next.


We went to the Moon???????????????
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
8 Jun 2010 3:04pm
petermac33 said...
fire/planes causing a near free-fall collapse of 3 superstructures,to believe in that idea well.....



Just out of curiosity, what do you think made it fall at "near free fall collapse" ?

And I am interested in a detailed description, not just "it was a demolition job".
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23684 posts
WA, 23684 posts
8 Jun 2010 5:50pm
sausage said...

I suppose they'll tell me the moon landings were faked next.


That is another one of ours. Shhhh!
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
8 Jun 2010 7:20pm
pweedas....

Just out of curiosity, what do you think made it fall at "near free fall collapse" ?

And I am interested in a detailed description, not just "it was a demolition job".



google Richard Gage or better still for a paticularly detailed description Ed Ward.



the people who jumped out of the towers from around the 80th floor took around 10 seconds to hit the ground. [free-fall speed equals no resistance]

how long did it take for the towers to fall?

similiar time, why because no resistance.

the floors below were taken out[you can see the lateral ejections] before the above floors made contact.this would result in no resistance.

computer sequenced explosives.

how they did it [turn the towers into micro dust before towers even hit the ground]we may never know exactly.


sausage
sausage
QLD
4874 posts
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8 Jun 2010 9:35pm
petermac33 said...

the floors below were taken out[you can see the lateral ejections] before the above floors made contact.this would result in no resistance.



Petermac,
Don't want to burst your conspiracy bubble but if you've ever seen a compression test done on a concrete core then you'll know what those lateral ejections were. The columns had to give way before the above floors made contact. Once one of the floors support system (namely the columns) gave way, it becomes a domino effect speeding up exponentially to the point of one continuous collapse.

Explosives smovies.

PS - I did a second year uni construction assignment on the WTC in 88 and they were an incredible piece of engineering in respect to the external facade which acted as a lattice like structural diaphram. Once the facade was stressed due to the excessive heat from those imaginary planes that flew into the building they really had no chance.
sausage
sausage
QLD
4874 posts
QLD, 4874 posts
8 Jun 2010 9:38pm
Mark _australia said...

sausage said...

I suppose they'll tell me the moon landings were faked next.


That is another one of ours. Shhhh!


and I gather you set the detonations off on level 85 of the World Trade Centres on 11 Sept 01.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23684 posts
WA, 23684 posts
8 Jun 2010 8:03pm
Yes it was Sausage, but not one of those mini nuke things they rabbit on about.

It was an METC device and the observant conspiracists will note the smaller explosion at a lower level which generates the gaseous cloud, followed by a larger one higher up a sthe cloud detonates after rising.

Oops, done it again. Everybody look at the red light that will flash in front of your eyes thus wiping your memory
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2575 posts
NSW, 2575 posts
8 Jun 2010 11:02pm
sausage said...

petermac33 said...

the floors below were taken out[you can see the lateral ejections] before the above floors made contact.this would result in no resistance.



Petermac,
Don't want to burst your conspiracy bubble but if you've ever seen a compression test done on a concrete core then you'll know what those lateral ejections were. The columns had to give way before the above floors made contact. Once one of the floors support system (namely the columns) gave way, it becomes a domino effect speeding up exponentially to the point of one continuous collapse.





Explosives smovies.

PS - I did a second year uni construction assignment on the WTC in 88 and they were an incredible piece of engineering in respect to the external facade which acted as a lattice like structural diaphram. Once the facade was stressed due to the excessive heat from those imaginary planes that flew into the building they really had no chance.





yep.
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7285 posts
WA, 7285 posts
8 Jun 2010 9:23pm
petermac33 said...


computer sequenced explosives.

how they did it [turn the towers into micro dust before towers even hit the ground]we may never know exactly.



Come on - you cannot turn materials and structures that have free faces into 'micro dust' using explosives.

Only way remotely possible would be to constrain them (generally called choking in explosives terms)

And why the facination with mini-nukes ?

For starters nuclear detonation cannot be 'mini'. Nuclear explosion requires a critcal mass of material. Too little and the relased protons are not enough to cause the chain reaction required.

What that critical mass is I don't know. It is not widely published, but a learned physicist could calculate it, and I am sure you could google it. I understand you need around a bowling ball size of material. An equivalent volume of conventional explosives (even something as slow burning and benign as ANFO) would not be a 'mini' explosion.

You want 'mini' explosions you need to use Dynamite or some other nitroglycerine based product.

May I suggest you enrole in a West Australian Shotfirers Course - 5 day course and you may learn something about explosives and how they work, instead of blithering on about 'mini nukes'. I think maybe Dr Evil and Mini-me may be the only people to be able to build a 'mini' nuke.

Lots of radiation at the WTC towers post explosion ?? Measured by well meaning amateurs with Geiger counters ? or elements determined by mass spectrometry ?

Try putting a geiger counter on a flourescent tube. Try granite (the stone used to make concrete) Wow, shock horror - they had fluro tubes and thousands of other materials containing radioactive particles in massive buildings in the middle of a city ?

Hang-on, maybe the mass spectrometry scientists are in on the global conspiracy.

Could you tell us what ratio of the worlds population are in on the global conpiracy and what ratio are not.

The further you go the more people seem to be involved. With Mark_Australia now confessing we seem to be up to everybody is in on the act except organic papaya eating hippies living on US welfare, and me.

Mmmm - I am beginning to see a trend here. What do papaya taste like ? how much does US welfare pay ?
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
9 Jun 2010 1:53am
petermac33 said...
how they did it [turn the towers into micro dust before towers even hit the ground]we may never know exactly.



You see Pweet, you have touched on the critical failure point of the controlled demolition argument right here.

For the building to come down at "near free fall speed" to be a convincing argument for a controlled demolition, you would have to show that almost every bit of the energy required for the demolition process came from the planted explosives.
And that is a ridiculous proposition because even in controlled demolitions of large buildings, they actually use a surprisingly small amount of explosives.
The majority of the energy required for the demolition is derived from the building itself. i.e. the potential energy due to the mass of the building and its height above ground level.
This is a huge amount of stored potential energy just waiting to be released.
Once a collapse is initiated by a small amount of explosives at critical points, the building completes the demolition process itself.

So you see that unless so much explosive was used that it literally turned all the understoreys to dust in perfect sequence as it fell, the rate of fall of the building would be the same regardless of what initiated the collapse, a controlled demolition starting on the 85th floor or a plane flying into the building and initiating structural failure on the 85th floor.

There is no logical way round this flaw in your argument.
You have tried to evade this dead end by the statement ;
" how they did it, turn the towers into micro dust before towers even hit the ground, we may never know exactly."
That is not in any way an acceptable answer to the critical point of the whole 'controlled demolition' theory.

I agree, the building did come down surprisingly fast.
It is worth looking at why.

The fact is, there were no concrete vertical support columns in the floor area of the building.
It was a tubular construction and as far as the vertical support structure is concerned, the entire building was hollow from top to bottom.
All floors were of lightweight horizontal support beams from the outer walls to the elevator shafts in the centre, with 4 inch concrete floor slabs on top of the light support beams.
There were no internal vertical steel or concrete supports for the floors at all.
All it needed to bring it down was enough heat to make the horizontal support beams soft enough to bend under the weight of just one or two floor slabs.
If you want to know if that is possible, just see how quickly a steel framed house roof buckles and then caves in with a normal house fire under it. And they are very lightly loaded.

Once just one floor fell in, the horizontal beams of the next floor down had to support the weight of 2 concrete floor slabs.
The first floor to collapse probably made the sound reported as an explosion. I can't imagine it would have been a silent process.

The next floor under it would have also been subject to the heat of the fire and would have buckled and fallen seconds afterwards.
As the floor beams buckled downwards, they pulled the sides of the building inwards.
The strength of the side frames relied on the structure remaining vertical and intact.
Once the collapse started, neither of these conditions was met.
After the next floor fell, this presented a load of 3 floors to the floor beneath and worse still, it was a shock loading. i.e. by now it had kinetic energy. It was moving downwards at an increasing rate.
With this loading being presented to the lower floors, they didn't need to be subject to any heat to fail. They failed simply because of a loading greatly in excess of their design capacity.
With the weight of three, then four, then five, then etc up to 85 floors falling down on top of each other, the restriction to the fall would have been minimal because each floor was designed to take the load of just one floor.
Once the collapse started, every floor which fell contributed to the mass demolishing the floors beneath as it was all contained by the tubular construction. Plus the upper floors acted as a battering ram as they followed the destruction down.
The only slow part of the process would have been the collapse of the first two floors.
The remainder failed at a rapidly increasing rate, and that's pretty much how I saw it on tv.

The few sideways ejections were the result of the huge downrush of air and demolition products down the outer tubular structure of the building, sort of like the wadding in a shot gun cartridge.

I find this a more convincing explanation rather than saying it was a controlled and sequenced demolition with the key point of your explanation being
"how they did it, turn the towers into micro dust before towers even hit the ground,we may never know exactly."

Tell me if you are swayed by this explanation even just a little bit.
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
9 Jun 2010 4:33am
pweedas......Tell me if you are swayed by this explanation even just a little bit.

absolutely ziltch,if there is such a word.


i am not a very smart guy but i can see a con when it is starring me right in the face.



pweedas....''There were no internal vertical steel or concrete supports for the floors at all''.

and pigs can fly there were none!

there were 47 central support columns that formed the core of the building.[look at the photos/videos of the towers under construction for verification of this]

in the documentary ''911 mysteries'' you can see one of the towers under construction. the video shows these massive 47 central columns jutting out around a hundred or so feet above the highest floor below. [at the time of construction]


look at other evidence.....

in one of the towers the top 30 floors fell to the side [around 23 degrees]. after tilting 23 degrees this top part[30 floors] should have fallen all the way to the ground independent of the other 80 floors.

instead it just disappeared!!!!

Google Richard Gage, he can present the evidence better than i can.


Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
9 Jun 2010 9:04am
petermac33 said...

in the documentary ''911 mysteries''

look at other evidence.....

Google Richard Gage



I did what you said and found that...

"Gage has given speeches at conferences organized by supporters of the 9/11 Truth movement"


Hmmmm...interesting, now how did this post start...oh, I know!

ginger pom said...

I read something the other day in a non-credible source. I believed it and you should too

<<Copy of text from non credible source that cannot be searched on google>>

<<You tube video from non credible American news program>>

Let me know what you think




as the groundhog pops his head out of the hole...again!
Carantoc
Carantoc
WA
7285 posts
WA, 7285 posts
9 Jun 2010 8:43am
Arh Pweedas, an understanding of structural mechanics is not required for analysis of the collapse of buildings.

There is a reasonably famous (amongst structural engineners) example of a collapsing balcony many years ago.

My simpleton way of explaining it:

The balcony conprised two floors suspended on wires from the ceiling. Design had a single rope length with both floors connected to the rope.

Contractors messed up and terminated one rope at the upper floor, then suspended the lower from the upper on another length of rope.

Not a very good description, some pictures would help and show the very subtle change from design.

<<can't be arsed to insert google or sketch of this so will will just say "we may never know">>

In essence, same size rope, same load going throught the rope, same connections, but it collapsed.

Internal vertical members in high rise buildings are usually lift shafts and stair wells. They may or may not also act as shear members or columns.

Given the height of the WTC and therefore the speed and load required of elevators and to maximise internal floor space through minimising internal walls, if I were designing the structure of the towers, I would have kept lift shafts solely as supporting the lifts as far as possible.
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
9 Jun 2010 11:48am
petermac33 said...

pweedas......Tell me if you are swayed by this explanation even just a little bit.

absolutely ziltch,if there is such a word.


i am not a very smart guy but i can see a con when it is starring me right in the face.



pweedas....''There were no internal vertical steel or concrete supports for the floors at all''.

and pigs can fly there were none!

there were 47 central support columns that formed the core of the building.[look at the photos/videos of the towers under construction for verification of this]

in the documentary ''911 mysteries'' you can see one of the towers under construction. the video shows these massive 47 central columns jutting out around a hundred or so feet above the highest floor below. [at the time of construction]


look at other evidence.....

in one of the towers the top 30 floors fell to the side [around 23 degrees]. after tilting 23 degrees this top part[30 floors] should have fallen all the way to the ground independent of the other 80 floors.

instead it just disappeared!!!!

Google Richard Gage, he can present the evidence better than i can.





Hmm, evidently I didn't make myself clear enough when I said.;

''There were no internal vertical steel or concrete supports for the floors at all''.
You seem to have overlooked that I also said;
"All floors were of lightweight horizontal support beams from the outer walls to the elevator shafts in the centre, with 4 inch concrete floor slabs on top of the light support beams. "
which I think is fairly explicit.


Obviously I did not mean that the floors were just sitting in space unsuspended.
The horizontal floor beams were bolted on the outside edge to the outer wall structure, and on the inside edge to the elevator shaft.
There were NO vertical support pillars of any sort, steel, concrete or otherwise for the floors apart from the obviously required end supports.
Once a floor collapsed, it was free to go all the way to the basement, which is what happened.
Had there been vertical pillars spaced around the floor area, this would not have been possible.



look at other evidence.....

in one of the towers the top 30 floors fell to the side [around 23 degrees]. after tilting 23 degrees this top part[30 floors] should have fallen all the way to the ground independent of the other 80 floors.


They did fall all the way to the ground on top of the collapsing structure beneath them.
Gravity operates vertically. There was no reason why the top floors should jump off the side of the building and fall down independently somewhere else.
Had they tilted to the extent that they were outside the building envelope they would have continued to fall to the ground independent of the main structure.
However, as you rightly state, they only tilted about 23 degrees and remained inside the building footprint.
The tubular structure of the building then ensured that almost all demolition materials fell down the inside of the structure.



instead it just disappeared!!!!



This statement is typical of the whole conspiracy argument.
The fact that the top 30 floors disappeared in the dust of the collapse is somehow construed as positive proof of a demolition job.
Just assuming for one second that it was, how on earth could that be achieved without blowing the entire upper 30 floors over the whole city.
And don't say that they were. Apart from a small number of parts thrown from the site, almost all the building materials were confined to a very small area considering they fell from 1000 feet up in the sky.


Google Richard Gage, he can present the evidence better than i can.


Pweet, over the last 8 years I have looked at many of these and I am always astounded by their lack of objectivity.
They ALL explain away minor curiosities in the actual events by constructing ludicrous scenarios with such glaring errors and inconsistencies that they make the original curiosities pale into insignificance.

Why do they all choke on a minor curiosity in the actual events and yet swallow in apparently unlimited abundance, major deficiencies in logic and possibility as presented in their alternative conspiracy theories?

You can't be unaware of the inconsistencies because you mention some yourself when you say that we may never know how they turned the all the concrete to dust, and that the top 30 floors "disappeared"
What magical powers does the New World Order possess that they can do such things undetected?

pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
9 Jun 2010 11:51am
Sailhack said...


as the groundhog pops his head out of the hole...again!



Yes. But at last the thread is under a more accurate and appropriate heading.
maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
9 Jun 2010 5:20pm
pweedas said...

Sailhack said...


as the groundhog pops his head out of the hole...again!



Yes. But at last the thread is under a more accurate and appropriate heading.


Best statement so far in the whole thread!!!
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
9 Jun 2010 4:46pm
pweedas.....we can debate the evidence till eternity and nothing is going to change.

if you can watch the 2 hr documentary '911 Mysteries' look me in the eye and still tell me it was not a controlled demo then i surrender.

i will retire to windsurf general.

the Doc is right..... the mainstream media....TELL US WHAT IS REALITY

and we believe them!


NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
9 Jun 2010 6:53pm
Ok next topic. Is Osama really dead?

Whats that I hear? It sounded like a cry of anguish.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
9 Jun 2010 9:07pm
NotWal said...

Ok next topic. Is Osama really dead?


Someone assasinated the US President???!!!

....ohhhh hang-on, you said Osama...
sausage
sausage
QLD
4874 posts
QLD, 4874 posts
9 Jun 2010 9:21pm


"The 1993 World Trade Center bombing was allegedly orchestrated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation"

I take back everything I said - Makes perfect sense & if it's on Wikipedia then it must be true

petermac33 said...

the Doc is right..... the mainstream media....TELL US WHAT IS REALITY

and we believe them!



Thank God for that. Imagine if they told us what isn't real.
japie
japie
NSW
7146 posts
NSW, 7146 posts
9 Jun 2010 10:24pm
I love this witty and jovial banter. Primarily because it helps me make up my mind on all contentious issues.

You are right of course, Ginger Pom et al, there is no way in a thousand years those good Christian gentlemen at the helms of our respective countries would even think to lead us astray. After all, they tell us so, with their hands on their hearts! Who are we to question their morals or their ideals or their motives?

Tomorrow I will wake up and forget that anything even slightly suspicious has ever occurred. After all it is obvious on the surface and deep deep down that any financial or power gains that have resulted over the years have been the result of uncalculating fortune.

In fact to suggest that anyone at all would even consider misleading anyone at all for the sake of achieving anything vaguely unethical is entirely blasphemous. In fact it is most probably the work of Satan.

Yeah right!

Careful, when you wake up your coffee may well have gone cold!


ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
9 Jun 2010 10:50pm
japie said...


You are right of course, Ginger Pom et al, there is no way in a thousand years those good Christian gentlemen at the helms of our respective countries would even think to lead us astray. After all, they tell us so, with their hands on their hearts! Who are we to question their morals or their ideals or their motives?


I'm not saying that the desire isn't there. The ability to implement is screwed. Look at loft insulation. Krudd wanted to put some stuff in people's roofs. Not tricky, nothing to keep secret, pretty important to him and still utterly cocked up.

If he wanted to spray us with mind altering chemicals or blow up a building killing 2000 of the most connected people in the country then he would have to work much harder...
japie
japie
NSW
7146 posts
NSW, 7146 posts
9 Jun 2010 11:25pm
Yes, I take your point about Kev.

But he is a very small and insignificant cog in a very big wheel. If you don't believe someone is pulling his strings just tarry awhile.

When he is gone the money men will still be there and they are not going to change tactics.
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