I'm not one to re-post news topics, but WTF!?! Shouldn't we be looking after our own & investing in training the tradesmen of tomorrow? Is this a push from the 'Powers-that-be' to suck up to our 'big-brothers' to secure our 'friendship' into the future?

www.news.com.au/finance/work/us-workers-to-fill-australian-skill-shortage/news-story/e93fc34498edc45690820bb39e9e3825

So we have nobody on the dole who is capable of working?

Mark _australia said...

So we have nobody on the dole who is capable of working?

Capable, yes.
Willing, no.

Mark _australia said...

FlySurfer said...

Mark _australia said...

So we have nobody on the dole who is capable of working?

It said SKILL shortage

Couple 100K yanks will even out the demographics, assuming their Caucasian.

They are talking about tradies.
Don't tradies start with an apprenticeship with zero knowledge? That would be good for the many Aussies who refuse to work ... rather than importing them again.

BTW we had an American bloke sent from a local company to do roofing, he had no idea about corrugated stuff and put all the sheets with the overlap upside down. One patio - useless in winter. Duh.

Got a couple of qualified seppo's on field service out of Hedland. One thinks he knows it all had to go to Tom Price ex Hedland for a breakdown repair. Called from Marble Bar asking "which way is Tom Price from here"
Needless to say, he isn't so much a smart arse any more.

I can see the future slogan of our country now...

'AUSTRALIA - OWNED BY CHINA...BUILT BY THE USA'

Unfortunately, the do-gooders have argued about apprenticeship wages to a point where the cost to employ a new 'young' apprentice is not worth it as you can pick up a TA or qualified tradey for not much more. Instead of rolling in 'new-blood' each year, as many leave once they qualify, the economy & the cost isn't worth it, so the trades are disappearing.

When I did my apprenticeship I was 'prepared' (probably due to my dad telling me that a trade is invaluable even if I don't get paid at all) to sacrifice 3 years of low-income (knowing that the 4th year was close to full-pay) to get that certificate. Nowadays that piece of paper doesn't hold the same amount of push that it used to. I can apply for a job either locally at the smelter, or fifo to mining and step into 6 figures. The 'award' wage for most trades is still about 40k.

[edit] I'm sure there are great tradeys in the USA...but from the trade I worked in, our homes are more European influenced. As mentioned, the difference in how we build our homes, including commercial construction would cause some issues.

Is it really that hard to get apprentices? When I was that age, people would be competing to get an apprenticeship in anything.

I heard a plumber whinging that he couldn't get guys to stay, but I wonder if it was his attitude. I suspect that not having fresh workers come into the industry just made his job more profitable.

If I had any say, I would not allow any foreign workers to come in, unless they were very specialised. In the IT industry various groups have tried to argue that they can't get the skills locally, where in reality they can't get the skills locally cheap enough. There seem to be a lot of people on short term visas, and in the case of some companies, an endless stream of new people on these visas.

This was sort of okay when things were doing really well, but when they do drop off, as they often do, finding work becomes a problem for everyone.

FormulaNova said...

Is it really that hard to get apprentices? When I was that age, people would be competing to get an apprenticeship in anything.

I know a young bloke doing an electrical apprenticeship, his parents claim he is making $7.00 per hour, maybe someone that knows could confirm this.

Rex said...

FormulaNova said...

Is it really that hard to get apprentices? When I was that age, people would be competing to get an apprenticeship in anything.

I know a young bloke doing an electrical apprenticeship, his parents claim he is making $7.00 per hour, maybe someone that knows could confirm this.

It's possible depending on his age. Most apprenticeships are calculated at a percentage rate and from memory a first-year's wage is about 40% of the full-time salary. I'd expect that electricians would be about $24 p/h min? Maybe more like $10 per/hr for 1st year?

(below notes cut'n'pasted from AIRC)

17.6.1 The Federal Minimum Wage

No employee shall be paid less than the federal minimum wages.

17.6.2 Amount of Federal Adult Minimum Wage

17.6.2(a) The federal minimum wage for full-time adult employees not covered by sub-clause 17.6.4 (special categories clause) is $484.40 per week.

17.6.2(b) Adults employed as part-time or casual shall continue to be entitled to receive the wage rate determined under the casual and part-time clauses of the award. Provided that such employees shall not be paid less than pro rata the minimum wage specified in clause 17.6.2(a) according to the number of hours worked.

17.6.3 How the Federal Minimum Wage Applies to Juniors

17.6.3(a) The wage rates provided for juniors by this award continue to apply unless the amount determined under clause 17.6.3(b) is greater.

17.6.3(b) The federal minimum wage for an employee to whom a junior rate of pay applies is determined by applying the percentage in the junior wage rates clause applicable to the employee concerned to the relevant amount in clause 17.6.2.

17.6.4 Application of Minimum Wage to Special Categories of Employee

17.6.4(a) Due to existing applicable award rates being greater than the relevant proportionate federal minimum wage, this clause has no application to employees undertaking a National Training Wage Traineeship, and Australian Traineeship, a Career Start Traineeship, a Jobskills placement or an apprenticeship.

17.6.4(b) [Leave reserved for other special categories].

17.6.5 Application of Minimum Wage to Award Rates Calculation

The Federal Minimum Wage:

17.6.5(a) applies to all work in ordinary hours;

17.6.5(b) applies to the calculation of overtime and all other penalty rates, superannuation, payments during sick leave, long service leave and annual leave, and for all other purposes of this award; and

17.6.5(c) is inclusive of the arbitrated safety net adjustment provided by the Safety Net Review – Wages June 2005 decisions [PR002005] and all previous safety net adjustments.

Sailhack said...

I'm not one to re-post news topics, but WTF!?! Shouldn't we be looking after our own & investing in training the tradesmen of tomorrow? Is this a push from the 'Powers-that-be' to suck up to our 'big-brothers' to secure our 'friendship' into the future?

www.news.com.au/finance/work/us-workers-to-fill-australian-skill-shortage/news-story/e93fc34498edc45690820bb39e9e3825

What would you rather have....

Somalians or africans or some other non english speaking 'canhardlies' heading over to flood the country with their substandard skills. Resulting in them applying for residency after their 457 and then bringing out their multiple family members for our country to support them.. Who stay in their own little enclaves and don't intergrate well with our values and have no idea what Anzac day is.

Or Americans or Canadians who can intergrate with western values. Who have good work ethic, respect of our laws and can speak english. Who abide by the gov regulations of 457's and immigration... And respect our country for what it is?

Keep your heads in the sand but with the way things are going asylum seekers and immigrants (when I say immigrants I mean 3rd world ones, I don't mean euro's) will outnumber the amount of anglo aussies guaranteed. We are heading down the same path as the UK.. Everyone want's the good life we have.. But what's going to happen when things start to get tough.... Ponder that....

I say welcome the USA and Canadians... At least we can have a laugh and a beer with them and they will contribute to our economy and values. Their living standards are high as opposed to having 23 pakistanis living in 1 house.

Or even consider the Greeks and assisting them with visas.. They need all the help they can get and they have proven to be key players in our immigration during the 60's and 70's. They have flourished here and give back to our culture.

And before anyone plays the 'you ignorant racist card'... I believe in what I believe. I don't apologise for my views or what my forefathers have fought so hard for previously... Red thumb away all you politically correct people.... I don't mind one bit..

yeah the only reason she wants this is to fill her pockets up even more and to get her operations fully staffed so she can reap the rewards...

But what about all those overstayers... Our track record is poor when it comes to deporting or evicting those that are here illegally.. And your stupid to think that they will just head home.


Maybe we should move them into here multi million $$$ pad in Dalkieth... See how that goes. She can shove her limerick in her snatch.

RPM said...

Sailhack said...

I'm not one to re-post news topics, but WTF!?! Shouldn't we be looking after our own & investing in training the tradesmen of tomorrow? Is this a push from the 'Powers-that-be' to suck up to our 'big-brothers' to secure our 'friendship' into the future?

www.news.com.au/finance/work/us-workers-to-fill-australian-skill-shortage/news-story/e93fc34498edc45690820bb39e9e3825

What would you rather have....

Somalians or africans or some other non english speaking 'canhardlies' heading over to flood the country with their substandard skills. Resulting in them applying for residency after their 457 and then bringing out their multiple family members for our country to support them.. Who stay in their own little enclaves and don't intergrate well with our values and have no idea what Anzac day is.

Or Americans or Canadians who can intergrate with western values. Who have good work ethic, respect of our laws and can speak english. Who abide by the gov regulations of 457's and immigration... And respect our country for what it is?

Keep your heads in the sand but with the way things are going asylum seekers and immigrants (when I say immigrants I mean 3rd world ones, I don't mean euro's) will outnumber the amount of anglo aussies guaranteed. We are heading down the same path as the UK.. Everyone want's the good life we have.. But what's going to happen when things start to get tough.... Ponder that....

I say welcome the USA and Canadians... At least we can have a laugh and a beer with them and they will contribute to our economy and values. Their living standards are high as opposed to having 23 pakistanis living in 1 house.

Or even consider the Greeks and assisting them with visas.. They need all the help they can get and they have proven to be key players in our immigration during the 60's and 70's. They have flourished here and give back to our culture.

And before anyone plays the 'you ignorant racist card'... I believe in what I believe. I don't apologise for my views or what my forefathers have fought so hard for previously... Red thumb away all you politically correct people.... I don't mind one bit..

I'd rather aussies get training, a skill shortage is not the same as a population shortage. There is no population shortage just a skills shortage.

Little Jon said...

I'd rather aussies get training, a skill shortage is not the same as a population shortage. There is no population shortage just a skills shortage.

Exactly, what ever happened to looking after the people here? Is Australia just about business? Or do people live here too? They need to break the cycle of screwing over young people..... there is loads of money to be earned in trades...transition kids at year 10, and three years of on job training they will be thanking the gov for their six figure incomes... and actually own a house... mind you they will need six figures to pay off a house in 10 years time.....

Whoops....My bad? People exist for business....... Gov result from Business....fk me....

Sailhack said...

RPM said...


What would you rather have....

Apart from the comment re; Greeks (which I agree with) the rest is blatantly racist - which I don't agree with but that's ok, it's your opinion.

My issue isn't with the 'ethnicity' of the imported tradeys, it's with the gov't 'selling-out' more of our resources...our youth. They are cashing in on Australian land (I would say 'our' land, but that brings forward too many assumptions), technologies, resources and now the future tradespeople of this country. Sure, take each immigrant application on its merits, but don't advertise to fill a gap that has been caused due to the inability of the gov't to allocate funds & training to the target area.

We already import out taxi drivers, doctors, shearers etc...the building industry is just another vocation that's in the gov'ts sights.

Instead of investing in the future of our country & trying to keep the assets to build on, we are slowly ripping it down & selling it off. Instead of giving away jobs, how about giving kids the skills & teach them pride to not want to live their lives on handouts (this goes for parents also) and make sure the career opportunities are there to be had into the future.

+1

Little Jon said...
I'd rather aussies get training, a skill shortage is not the same as a population shortage. There is no population shortage just a skills shortage.

Spot on - we have a skills shortage not a population shortage.

Do we seriously think that when we have many on the dole, and relatively skilled immigrants for the Third World doing menial jobs (they weren't all picking up rubbish in their homelands) that we need to import more labour?

Bump everyone up a notch.....
Those on dole capable of work become the cleaners and garbage sorters
Immigrants who have toiled for years in menial jobs get their chance at an apprenticeship
and so on

I find it very offensive when I see people who refuse to take lower jobs prefer to stay on the dole, and hardworking immigrants of good work ethic do the sh!t jobs.
Then we import "skilled" labour. What, can't we develop our own population?

Easy way out, that as usual hits the middle class normal person in the hip pocket and does nothing to improve the country.

If you are relying on the Chevron type companies that are here for the resources to produce tradies then you will be waiting a long long time because they are pulling all the fancy moves they can to avoid just that ! [}:)]

All the full page ads in The West newspaper are part of the game to make them look like good corporate citizens so they can bluff and bluster the public into ignoring the fact that they are sucking away a fair swag of the semi and skilled workers without actually doing anything to fill the void they leave behind in the south.

Resource companies are many steps ahead of the government (past, current and future) with their planning to take away as much as they can whilst not skilling up the locals......

Gina is just trying to follow the experts !

Mark _australia said...
I find it very offensive when I see people who refuse to take lower jobs prefer to stay on the dole, and hardworking immigrants of good work ethic do the sh!t jobs.
Then we import "skilled" labour. What, can't we develop our own population?

Completely agree. I see people in food courts, happily cleaning tables with a smile, say hello and are polite, speak good english; giving better service than I see in some hotels and retail stores. And often think, its people like this that need to be in more upmarket roles.