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Originally posted by Joffa
Anyone with practical experience in trying 20m kites particularly C kites and could compare them to 15/16m size C kites pls let me know your views... cheers Jeff

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I can't comment specifically on the M80, but I did get a go on a 2004 Nemesis 20M once......man, what a huge kite! I went from my 2004 Airush Lift 16M to that and to be honest, I couldn't go upwind any better on it than I already was on my 16. But, I'm pretty light (~64kg), so normally if I can't get going properly on my 16, it's not gonna happen.

I have had a c shape 21m for quite a while now and consider it to be a very nice kite. Gets me going in 10knts or so, water re launches, loops nicely and creates very good low end power.

Sure, they are harder to fly, heavy on the bar and peope who are not used to them don;t like them.

I tend to think they make you a better kite flyer, when you master the big beasts going back to a 12 is a piece of cake, as you need to have the larger kites in the right part of the sky most of the time.

It's nice to be on the water when everyone is back in front of the computers waiting for the wind to come up and bagging big kites.

In my experience (with venoms... C shaped folis) the big beasts don't give you that much better absolute low end but do give better power 'near' the bottom of the range. So at 10kn a 16m V is not different to a 19m V but at 13-14kn the 19m V will have you nicely powered while the 16 still has to be worked too much.

The other option is to ride the bigger board. I recently got a 148x46 FLX with no concave and a very flat rocker..... it screams in light wind and goes upwind unbelievably well.

mike

Reluctantly I am getting into this "debate" as a past user of Peter Lynn Arc's: I had thre kites a 6m, an 8m and the 12m.

I used to stack 2 kites depending the wind: 6 with 8, 8 with 12 and sometimes 6 with 12 using 7.5m extension lines. Whilst they were a little bit difficult to relaunch if they were crashing, the stacking always worked for me. So as you can immagine, in a 12 - 15 knots wind I was flying the 8 and 12, which by the rule of thumb will approximate an 18m kite.
However in several occasions I stacked together all three kites approximative 22 m of kite in the sky, and I was going in 10 -12 knots wind. (I am pretty sure it should work with the Venoms too).
The three stack was really very slow to turn or work so I was able only to go beam reach, if not slightly downwind.
Large kites, are slow, they require a little bit more kitig skills and they will work you hard, however what a good feeling when everyboddy else seat on the beach waiting for the seabreeze to pick up and you have sort of fun on the water.
The larger board option, yes, it works for liter kitesurfer but not for boddy weight above 80 kg.

Cheers

Joffa,

If your problem is planning, IMHO you need a longer or wider board.

Regards

Fred

smelly wind might be better than no wind and what a windless second half it's been

by the way jeff, i'm still babysitting your harness line thank you

Promise I'm not taking the piss, but how do you guys fly and relaunch kites this size in wind less than 15knts ?????

FlyING my largest kite a 13m Yarga Pro JUST on the beach in say 10knts = kite dropping out of the sky, thanks for coming now go home.

How does a larger weighter kite stay airbourne?? let alone let you kite in such light winds? Are they engineered differently?

I always just thought 20m kites were for FC's

Would love to be able to kite sub 15

I have a 2005 Yarga 13m (not pro model) and it's bottom end seems very poor (top end is great though) so my old 2003 15.5m Flow wouldn't seem to be that better... wrong it gets going at least 5 knots earlier with the same board and is pretty good in 12kts+
I am still saving for a bigger lightwind board though (around 150cm - I only have a 136cm) as the whole low wind action becomes heaps easier.

My 2c is stick with a 16m and spend a few hunj on a learner/lightwind beast.

Good luck

and if anyone is curious....no.....I am not a rep or seller in any form....just excited about the great deal....Figured that if this kite is too big for any but the lightest wind then I should get value for money...even if I only pull this out a couple times a season..Last couple of times my 12m M-80 has fallen out of the sky in 6-10 knots.....needed something bigger (90kg, 140WLF board). Will let you all know how I go....Originally wanted a 16m, but couldn't go past this deal for a kite still in its box!...Real kiteboarding is selling 16m for US$399....but can't go past this!

Not at all mate, if it means you are out there having fun, thats all that matters. I have 6 to 20m kites in my quiver, and 9-10kts on a big board is all I need for the bottom end. If people wanna whinge while you are out there zooming up and down - let them!

Ever since I got this seasons Assault II (16m) I have not used my 20m Spectrum as I found the 16 gave me as much power as the 20. I had 6m of extension on my 20 lines making it 33m in total. It gained me around 2 kts but you do have to anticipate the extra fast turning speed lol.

If you are worried about the pumping, get a electric pump, it's so good especially for one pump systems. Mine cost $300 and pumps to 100% of the required pressure, but you can get a cordless Coleman one for $60 which pumps it up to 85%. Simply finish the last 10-20 pumps by hand. We have 2 20m on our shelves if anyone is interested - one is $150 kite only, works with any standard C-kite bar, tho the bigger the better for big kites. Happy kiting!

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Originally posted by Joffa

Currently using 12m & 16m Liquid Force M80's on 138cm twin tip and also use a 5'9" surf board strapped... I'm 85kg and many times I'm out in light wind with guys who are planning in 10-15knots and often still getting upwind while I have been struggling! Others (often lighter guys) or on 16m bows which obviously have more grunt are planning nicely.

I have the opportunity to buy a new 20m M80 really cheap and was wondering how much diff going from 16 to a 20m M80 kite would make? I know the diff between my 12 and 16 is substantial but would there be that much diff again between my 16 and a 20m M80?

Not interested in going to a bow or something else (as I am committed to my M80's) unless it's $400 or less for a new kite so no point suggesting a $1500+ switch blade or crossbow or waroo etc... I am extremely happy with my 12m and 16m M80's and would be happy to go up to a 20m if it will give me a bit of grunt at 10-14 knots and get me planning and a bit upwind...

I have been able to recently buy my M80's new for $630 each with bar/lines pump 2006 editions so for an extra $400 I am really interested in purchasing a 20m to complete my (inexpensive) quiver! BTW I do have an 8m I use in 30+knots in another brand which covers the high wind ranges for me.

Anyone with practical experience in trying 20m kites particularly C kites and could compare them to 15/16m size C kites pls let me know your views... cheers Jeff

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I think kiting with a 20m is just about a different sport. I have had some amazing kites on a big kite on light wind days, especially down in Safety Bay cruising over the reefs.

I you want the same feel as your 12m it won't be for you, if you want get on the water rather than sitting on the beach or playing on your new PS3 the 20m is a good option, certainly they are slower and you are more limited with moves, but it is still water time. Think of it as heading out for a cruise.

Using the right bar (don't try using the bar of your 12m it won't turn) it is still possible to kite loop 18's and 20's.

When you can get new kites from $129 (kite only) or $229 (complete) for the extra $100 go the complete option unless you already have a long bar.

Check out a huge range of big kites at http://www.airbornekitesurfing.com.au/web/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=50

I tend to agree with you guys (kitehard airborne) I had an amazingly pleasant session in the surf recently (downwinder 8-12knots) Gold Coast on a 5'9" surfboard and the waves were glassy! I just thought at the time: slightly bigger surfboard and slightly bigger kite and I would have been in heaven!

For USD$285 a M80 20m kite including bar/lines delivered is very very tempting since I already own 2 M80's already (12 and 16) and love their feel and power.

I am leaning towards a purchase as there have been many days where I have been slightly under power on my 16m and I am a heavy guy at 85kg and yes I am thinking of losing weight...thanks for the tip straussk! I have windsurfed for 15 years and noticed a huge diff when I went from 95kg to low 80kg a couple years ago - it definitely helps heaps not only planing but over all ability to ride...

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this post as there are many useful ideas in there and it is an interesting topic as many of us have migrated from pole dancing to kiting for the very reason that we can't rally get going with any fun under 15knots on anything but a floating footpath! Sure the new freestyle boards have solved some of these issues but I still seem to be more powered than most windsurfers at 15knots with the ability to still get great boosts..

PS. Airborne let me know what you have in approx 20m kite and bar/lines package so I can compare.

Global warming = good wind but no showers!

Thing to consider is that with work, family other commitments if you can only get out once or twice a week and the day you can the wind is 8-9 knots I'd rather be driving a tractor than sitting on the beach with my thumb up my butt hoping that when I'm back next weekend the wind has picked up.....Better to be cruising.

There you go.....I'd rather be out on the water. Happier being able to get out once a week in light wind rather than having to wait 4 weeks till all the winds, planets work commitments etc align

hmmm...a thought I s'pose....lets see now....quit job - $100+K....pack up family and move to WA - $10K....change kids school - $2K...annual airfares to visit olds and outlaws - $5K...TOTAL $117,000.......OR.......buy 20m for lite days - $365......Might have to sleep on this!