Spacemonkey! said...

Slave' the idea of third party insurance is to keep our beaches open, not for us to claim on faulty hips. If the council knows we have third party insurance they know that if we take someone out on the beach that we can cover it and that they won't sue the council.

Nope,
Insurance alone won't keep the beaches open to kites.
Only responsible kite behaviour and a pinch of good luck will maintain the access.
Umbrella insurance cover won't shelter you from the sh!tstorm when
"we take someone out on the beach".
lol.
(Such a heartfelt comment from the Spacemonkey).

It's my guess that the AKSA cheap-arse 3rd party insurance is probably the minimum basic cover needed to appease the local authority,
so a comp can get a permit.
As simple as that.
The councils are pacified while the kiters are crucified.
Amped-up riders doing man-on-man heats in nukewind getting nailed....
with zero personal injury cover and no member-to-member injury cover.
Crazy stuff.
Very reckless of AKSA.

'slaves just adding his opinion to the basket,

whilst all and sundry are losing their cool.

same as it ever was.

Hey Jan and everyone,

its not quite right to think of the AKSA insurance exclusion as member to member. If you are participating in the sport and get injured by another participant you are not covered. If you (as a member) are watching or swimming or surfing (not participating in kitesurfing) and an AKSA member (who is participating) injures you, then that is when the insurance will cover. So in this case member to member cover is valid. if you are a member and not participating then the insurance cover will view you as a non-participant. In summary the policy exclusion doesnt involve membership considerations - more particpation in kitesurfing. Obviously you need to be a member to have coverage, but once you are particpating in a dangerous sport, you are accepting the risk that another participant may injure you. The insurers dont want this risk. They do accept the risk that you may injure someone else who is not participating, but not that you may injure another participant.

Emma has researched this till the cows come home and participant to participant insurance does not exist from aussie based insurers. Further, professional advice backed up with numerous alternative professinal opinions is that offshore policies are not suitable for AKSA or its members in Australia. Firstly because offshore policies are currently not accepted by numerous councils, and in the future will not be accepted by any Government agency. Secondly, offshore policy claims will not be assessed in australia (assessment in country of origin - Germany for IKO policy).

There are plenty of insurance options out there and individuals have full freedom to purchase whatever they want - eg IKO policy is for worldwide coverage with some exclusions (USA and UK I think) and a traveller may think the IKO is better coverage for them. I'm almost certain the AKSA policy is for Australia and its territories only but I might be wrong on this. Also home insurance policies can be arranged for similar coverage as the AKSA policy however I havent heard of any onshore insurers extending this to participant - participant cover. AKSA membership gives much more than just a good policy and the whingers out there saying we are forcing anyone to join (through events) is very small minded and misinformed. We have been avoiding any opportunity to control anyone for years. We dont actively encourage councils to use the tag system - its a last resort to avoid restrictions. We havent introduced any licensing or other compulsory mechanism to force kitesurfers to join. There are financial pressures in AKSA and we have goals but we are steadfastly avoiding control of people. We are for the kitesurfers and unless an activity, program or policy has direct benefits towards, safety, or promotion, or club support we dont do it. We want positive enthusiastic members not disgruntled, negative, and forced memberships

Back to insurance - at the end of the day the best insurance is to be carfeul and watchful. If you choose to kite around others you are giving them some trust that they wont injure you - you do this at your own risk. You are always better off to find your own space.

Hope this helps.

Oops pressed the wrong button. This time it’s in English
Hi jan
I'm no insurance expert, and maybe some one more informed can clarify this

If you where caused injury by another member of AKSA you have not Waived your rights to prosecute or Sue them. The Insurances of AKSA would not be involved. It would only involve you and the other person.

IanR you are on the track....

Should a participating member injure another participating member (and as stated earlier member to member liability is not covered by any Australian policy for kitesurfing) then you would personally have to sue this person should you wish to. They are not insured for member to member liability but they are insured for public liability. Some household policies would in fact respond in this instance.

By the way SLAVE, are you a member of AKSA/WAKSA, or just "throw dirt" over the fence?

Em G said...

IanR you are on the track....

Should a participating member injure another participating member (and as stated earlier member to member liability is not covered by any Australian policy for kitesurfing) then you would personally have to sue this person should you wish to. They are not insured for member to member liability but they are insured for public liability. Some household policies would in fact respond in this instance.

Point taken (and I actually feel a bit better about the situation.)

I was under the impression it was a "waiver" and that anyone attempting to sue would have it thrown back in their face as a blanket you-can't-claim-against-them-at-all thing. (I still do wonder if it might be argued this way in a court... courts sucking and all)

Ha, ha, ha.... as I thought.
There are two kind of people:
The ones are talking and are backing up their words with actions and there are the others just barking, making noise, stirring the..... smelly pot.
Thank you SLAVE, you can sit down
And by the way, I have the decency to SIGN my posts, not "hiding" behind a pseudonym.

....and then there is silvus world.
I hear there is a fax machine you can take kiting now....

Em G said...

This was the time of the Gerladton councils denial of our offshore policy a week before the nationals and AKSA forked out $4000 for a 5 day policy allow the nationals to go ahead.

WTF?

And the sordid backslapping continues!

Bite me!

To Emma and Mike

I appreciate any work done by yourselves for the benefilt of the greater kiting community, myself included. I understand that when AKSA was originally formed the state organsations were not up and going.

As we have a number of state organisations now up and running could you clarify what you see as the roles for AKSA and the state organisations.

Thanks jeremy