Accident

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Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
14 Dec 2008 11:49pm
Little can be tought in a few lessons, but most kiters are happy to get the basics and try their luck...and see what happens. What is missing is a comprehensive training course covering all aspects of kite boarding. Things may still go wrong no matter what...just to realize "hey, this is an EXTREME sport". One major difference between kite boarding and most other extreme sport is that kite boarding may become dangerous not only to the rider, but also to others. Therefore, I believe we need not only lessons (two or three) but a comprehensive training course.

BTW lines can become badly stuffed and tangled up after a crash on surf no matter where the safety leash is attached to.....
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
15 Dec 2008 9:07am
Andrash said...

Little can be tought in a few lessons, but most kiters are happy to get the basics and try their luck...and see what happens. What is missing is a comprehensive training course covering all aspects of kite boarding. Things may still go wrong no matter what...just to realize "hey, this is an EXTREME sport". One major difference between kite boarding and most other extreme sport is that kite boarding may become dangerous not only to the rider, but also to others. Therefore, I believe we need not only lessons (two or three) but a comprehensive training course.

BTW lines can become badly stuffed and tangled up after a crash on surf no matter where the safety leash is attached to.....


Interesting ideas To make your idea happen that will have to be compulsory for any beach in Australia ,enforced by councils, plus you will get the 'well i've done my course ,I've got my BOW ,I AM COOL , i can put my boardies over/under my wettie "(just like P plate drivers after they pass their driving test ) and they will not give this sport and huey the respect they deserve .Perhaps their instuctor can give them a D plate .

Perhaps read some of the excellent suggestions here and practice practice practice and develop the comprehensive skills that still wont be attained in 10 lessons ( in light winds less than 18 kts , wasn't kitesurfing invented as a lightwind sport ?)

BTW with good instruction alot can be learnt actually in a short time particularly if plenty of skills over time have been developed on a trainer kite and the student hones these skills on a kitesurf kite in an appropriate place and appropriate winds and if they don't exist then find another sport
superlizard
superlizard
VIC
702 posts
VIC, 702 posts
15 Dec 2008 9:11am
Cezary and Kitehard, i had both those things happen to me - well similar, but with more graceful outcome.

- Last week as i had my leash connected to the steering line, i crashed after a jump, and my chicken loop came out during the crash. As you Cezary, i was totally puzzled how can this happen. The loop wasn't released, but just came off, so the only rational explanation is that my donkey dick slipped out somehow. Luckily, the kite nicely depowered and i didn't get any tangles.

- And Kitehard i had very similar thing happen whilst trying to land it. It started rolling into the powerzone on the ground... i started getting dragged on my "face" across the sand but quickly reached for the safety release (this time using the 5th line safety), however the chicken loop somehow got stuck - it DID release at the connection bit, but the loop somehow got jammed between the hook and the donkey dick. Again, someone was there and grabbed the kite (thanks Damian).

- I also had my 5th safety line snap twice (luckily not in emergency situations).

So i don't think there is a 100% safe solution. Wear protective gear, use common sense, know the limits, don't risk, have life insurance.
NSW, 4382 posts
15 Dec 2008 9:37am
cezary said...

Even if you come across professional instuctor during your 3 lessons - I presume noone is taking more than that,there is little chance to be told everything that is necesarry to be safe kiteboarder.
I have done my lessons and on top of that I follow this forum in regard to everything that can help me to become better kiteboarder but I still cant find the answer and solution to potentially very serious accident I had few days ago,perhaps some pros can answer some of my questions Im sure it may concern others beginners as well.
Wind 20 knots plus kite 2009 11m , during sliding transition I got unhooked- dont know how it was possible - never happend in my 2 months on water is it possible to put donkey dick wrong?. Next thing I know the kite starts death loops so violantly that I was not able to lift my head above water wind was directly on shore after 70meters the kite was on the beach hit the sand and then I was able to start breathing again after
next loop someone managed to kill it, I was pretty shaken so didnt even thank that guy ,if he does read it thankyou very much.
The questions are is it avoidable ,my leash was hooked to the s/s ring of the left rear line one thing I know now for sure never attach to the ring only to the webbing that way it is impossible to put it by mistake on the wrong ring , but I HAVE BEEN TOLD to attach to the ring.I dont thing I put it on the wrong ring in that case but I didnt have brain to check after, so perhaps this made the kite mad.
Next,should I relise the leash and when .YOU are supposed to do this only in grave danger when I was in the water it was not justified but perhaps on the beach it would be too late ,in this case Iwas very lucky someone was there.
Is it better to ride on suicide I know the kite will not depower so much but the attachment in the centre might prevent kitelooping

when you fire QR or get accidenly unhooked and drop the bar as I did. Thankyou for your response.
Cheers



What kite brand and model is it?
Many 2007/2008/2009 kites are far safer to use with the leash connected to the centre line, blow the bar, but we need to know what brand and model your kite is.

Sounds terrible and you were lucky. maybe you should have released the kite and swum and dealt with the kite damage.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve
Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
15 Dec 2008 10:08am
Mr float said...

Andrash said...

Little can be tought in a few lessons, but most kiters are happy to get the basics and try their luck...and see what happens. What is missing is a comprehensive training course covering all aspects of kite boarding. Things may still go wrong no matter what...just to realize "hey, this is an EXTREME sport". One major difference between kite boarding and most other extreme sport is that kite boarding may become dangerous not only to the rider, but also to others. Therefore, I believe we need not only lessons (two or three) but a comprehensive training course.



Interesting ideas To make your idea happen that will have to be compulsory for any beach in Australia ,enforced by councils,


...are you sure?
Cezar
Cezar
VIC
270 posts
VIC, 270 posts
15 Dec 2008 12:23pm
Steve!
Its 2009 Waroo and I bought it from you!!!! , so it must be your fault.
But seriously its simply perfect kite untill that day no probs.I had it in winds 30 knots gusting 35 and my depower straps were only half way down,but I am not going to do that again , someone said ( discussing this accident) that it was outright dangerous to use the kite outside the range its designed for .Iam 77 kg and it was definetly out even if I had no problem to control it and had great session- no more
Cheers
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
15 Dec 2008 2:21pm
Andrash said...

Mr float said...

Andrash said...

Little can be tought in a few lessons, but most kiters are happy to get the basics and try their luck...and see what happens. What is missing is a comprehensive training course covering all aspects of kite boarding. Things may still go wrong no matter what...just to realize "hey, this is an EXTREME sport". One major difference between kite boarding and most other extreme sport is that kite boarding may become dangerous not only to the rider, but also to others. Therefore, I believe we need not only lessons (two or three) but a comprehensive training course.



Interesting ideas To make your idea happen that will have to be compulsory for any beach in Australia ,enforced by councils,


...are you sure?



I've re read your post and yes your suggestion is good (you are not suggesting that riders must have done a comprehensive 'signed off' and council approved course I made the assumption that that was what you were suggesting and I reckon this would open the ol can o worms ,most councils would say ",nah ,too hard you guys self regulate" ,'Oh you can't so you want us to enforce this ? ,Nah too hard , a blanket ban will be much easier")
Comprehensive kitesurf training is available and there is no replacement in gaining experience in appropriate conditions .
NSW, 4382 posts
15 Dec 2008 3:47pm
cezary said...

Steve!
Its 2009 Waroo and I bought it from you!!!! , so it must be your fault.
But seriously its simply perfect kite untill that day no probs.I had it in winds 30 knots gusting 35 and my depower straps were only half way down,but I am not going to do that again , someone said ( discussing this accident) that it was outright dangerous to use the kite outside the range its designed for .Iam 77 kg and it was definetly out even if I had no problem to control it and had great session- no more
Cheers



Hi Cezary

I knew it would be my fault! Most things are around here!
Yeah, do not clip the leash to the rings at the end of the bar, they are simply there as a self landing or emergency depower option, but I would rather they were not there at all.
If you flag to a rear line on a kite like the waroo, it will spin and can actually power back up.

Always ride with the leash clipped to the ring at the chicken loop, that pulls one end of the silver depower rope, for a fully spinning leash system (advanced rider - beyond begginer rider).
Begginers should ride the kite with the leash clipped to one of the flagging rings on the front lines, so that in an emergancy they can push the C-Loop release and totally depower the kite by flagging it to one front line.

I would say that you had your leash either connected to the wrong ring, or to both rings. You were lucky there was someone there to help you.

I'm 75kg and around 25 knots is enough for me on that kite and its enough for anyone my weight, so don't push it in winds above that.
If you have to ride with heaps of depower, and the bar is still at arms length, you will notice when you look up at the kite that it is fluttering, or getting wind "on top" of the sail. Thats a sign from the kite thats its being flown in too much wind and its not far off from doing something you will regret!!!!!

That kite is sweet in 15 - 25 and thats most days on the East Coast, if you need a bit more top end get a 9M.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Cezar
Cezar
VIC
270 posts
VIC, 270 posts
15 Dec 2008 8:32pm
Thanks Steve and Kitehard for your advice,donkey dick I use is not short if anything its too long but I will definetly look at the option suggested since its pretty obvious short or long it got out somehow and not only to me if you follow this topic.
As to the rear line attachment I understood it does not matter if you connect to the right ring or wrong ring its just wrong in case of the Waroo ( perhaps other bows as well). I just dont know why I was told by 3 diffrent instructors to connect just there.
3 diffrent kites SB , ATOM , WAROO.
pintofpale
pintofpale
SA
229 posts
SA, 229 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:35am
cezary said...

Even if you come across professional instuctor during your 3 lessons - I presume noone is taking more than that,there is little chance to be told everything that is necesarry to be safe kiteboarder.
I have done my lessons and on top of that I follow this forum in regard to everything that can help me to become better kiteboarder but I still cant find the answer and solution to potentially very serious accident I had few days ago,perhaps some pros can answer some of my questions Im sure it may concern others beginners as well.
Wind 20 knots plus kite 2009 11m , during sliding transition I got unhooked- dont know how it was possible - never happend in my 2 months on water is it possible to put donkey dick wrong?. Next thing I know the kite starts death loops so violantly that I was not able to lift my head above water wind was directly on shore after 70meters the kite was on the beach hit the sand and then I was able to start breathing again after
next loop someone managed to kill it, I was pretty shaken so didnt even thank that guy ,if he does read it thankyou very much.
The questions are is it avoidable ,my leash was hooked to the s/s ring of the left rear line one thing I know now for sure never attach to the ring only to the webbing that way it is impossible to put it by mistake on the wrong ring , but I HAVE BEEN TOLD to attach to the ring.I dont thing I put it on the wrong ring in that case but I didnt have brain to check after, so perhaps this made the kite mad.
Next,should I relise the leash and when .YOU are supposed to do this only in grave danger when I was in the water it was not justified but perhaps on the beach it would be too late ,in this case Iwas very lucky someone was there.
Is it better to ride on suicide I know the kite will not depower so much but the attachment in the centre might prevent kitelooping

when you fire QR or get accidenly unhooked and drop the bar as I did. Thankyou for your response.
Cheers


Its a bad idea to hook the leash onto a steering line. If the leash tangles on anything and becomes shorter then you will lose your control and the kite will start looping. One of the front lines is better if you have to have to fly with a leash above the bar but you will need a long leash. Trouble is, the front line flagging rings are hard to reach. I've thought of tying a leader rope on it but then that's one more thing to tangle. Its one of the gripes I have with the LF bar setup. You fly with the leash on the depower rope below the bar but have to change it to one of the front lines to self land. Its easy to confuse the rings and put the leash on the wrong one especially as you have to strain to reach it. If the wind picks up and you are trying to land the kite this can get sketchy.
pfr
pfr
NSW
156 posts
pfr pfr
NSW, 156 posts
16 Dec 2008 7:58am
Isn't that what that idiot on bondi rescue did? not sure but i think he had his leash hooked onto the steering line ring instead of below the bar on the depower rope. Do this and you will pay. I think that the kite manufacurers should not add flagging rings to the side lines (steering lines) on bow kites. It could be a fatal mistake you make attatching to steering line ring on a bow
NSW, 4382 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:31pm
cezary said...

Thanks Steve and Kitehard for your advice,donkey dick I use is not short if anything its too long but I will definetly look at the option suggested since its pretty obvious short or long it got out somehow and not only to me if you follow this topic.
As to the rear line attachment I understood it does not matter if you connect to the right ring or wrong ring its just wrong in case of the Waroo ( perhaps other bows as well). I just dont know why I was told by 3 diffrent instructors to connect just there.
3 diffrent kites SB , ATOM , WAROO.



It makes a huge difference which ring you connect to on the waroo bar, you should only connect to the webbing, so that you cannot connect to the wrong ring.
NEVER connect to the ring attached to the bar end!!!

All your kites should be flagged to a centre line, especially for self landing!

Mixed quivers, due to inability of of screwed up kite industry to co-operate, all those kites have very different bar colours, and safery systems, which totally sucks!!!!

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Cezar
Cezar
VIC
270 posts
VIC, 270 posts
16 Dec 2008 12:57pm
Pintofpale, you are dead right about front lines leshing dodnt know what kite you ride but in case of the Waroo its almost impossible at least with leash they supply.
I did try at the beginning since I wanted to follow their recommendation in manual but to no avail.
They do not recommend leashing to rear OSR handles, they are there only for emergency but since I couldnt use the front lines I did follow what I have been told by
instuctors during my lessons
The best leashing point is in the centre of the chicken loop but as Steve and the manual say its for intermediate and advanced riders so I COULDNT use it from the start( you can shed only 80% of power)but after more than 2 month on the water( 3 session a week)I belive I can start using this attachment point exclusively in anycase everything is better than uncontrollable power of kite lopping I had the privledge to experience.
Pfr the flagging rings on rear lines are half problem ( after all the manufactures say in manual they are only for emergency) we just cant have idiots around telling us to use them for leashing.
Cheers
loco4olas
loco4olas
NSW
1525 posts
NSW, 1525 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:04pm
Kitepower Australia said...

Mixed quivers, due to inability of of screwed up kite industry to co-operate, all those kites have very different bar colours, and safery systems, which totally sucks!!!!

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve



That's one of my greatest gripes-IMO bar ends should ALL be colour coded the same across the manufacturers-what's up with Cabs and their yellow and black bar ends for example???

Surely, at the very least, a red/green red/blue standardisation can be agreed upon between the majors?

Cezar
Cezar
VIC
270 posts
VIC, 270 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:17pm
Sorry for the stupid question but could someone tell me what IMO stands for.
Thanks
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
16 Dec 2008 2:26pm
In My Opinion, it must stand for something like Insane Mental Oranges or something, but that's just my opinion...
echostorm
echostorm
QLD
1245 posts
QLD, 1245 posts
16 Dec 2008 3:27pm
Here are the definitions of the ones used most on seabreeze. If you find more that you dont know just google them. A good way to google definitions is to type "define: insert word here and this will give you a definition.

IMO in my opinion
IMAO in my arogant opinion
IMHO in my honest opinion
STFU Shut the f*** up
HTFU Harden the f*** up
LOL Laughing out loud / Lots of laughs
LMAO Laughing my a** off
LMFAO Laughing my f***ing a** off
ROFL Rolling on the floor laughing
ROFLMAFO Rolling on the floor laughing my f***ing a** off
FFS For F*** sake
nOOb Beginner / Grommy (pronounced newb)
wOOt Celebrate wOOOOOt the wind is up

And for those that didnt pick up on pats subtlety
GreenPat said...

In My Opinion, it must stand for something like Insane Mental Oranges or something, but that's just my opinion...
Cezar
Cezar
VIC
270 posts
VIC, 270 posts
16 Dec 2008 4:47pm
Thanks echostorm finally I can uderstand what LOL stands for.LOL.
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
16 Dec 2008 4:03pm
echostorm said...


And for those that didnt pick up on pats subtlety


Subtle like a bulldozer.
echostorm
echostorm
QLD
1245 posts
QLD, 1245 posts
16 Dec 2008 4:17pm
GreenPat said...

echostorm said...


And for those that didnt pick up on pats subtlety


Subtle like a bulldozer.


As graceful as one too
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