Hey Pat, try flying a foil as well - then you'd REALLY be a kook ... or worse still an OLD kook like me ... but hey, we're still enjoying the sport we love and haven't hurt anybody else ... although funny how often FlySurfers are going upwind when most others are walking (did I say anything about SHAME?) ... then we could rewind back a few years to recount all the flack I used to cop about rinding a directional board too - but we don't want to go there do we?

quote:

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Originally posted by ianyoung

Hey Pat, try flying a foil as well - then you'd REALLY be a kook ... or worse still an OLD kook like me ... but hey, we're still enjoying the sport we love and haven't hurt anybody else ... although funny how often FlySurfers are going upwind when most others are walking (did I say anything about SHAME?) ... then we could rewind back a few years to recount all the flack I used to cop about rinding a directional board too - but we don't want to go there do we?

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I was just thinking about that mad blue thing with the strange fin/foil arrangement on the bottom the other day while I watched the directional circus at Scarbs on the weekend. I wondered if you were ahead of your time... Surely not

As for trying a foil, since weight loss seems an impossible horizon for me I might just have to. Pity I never see you at Scarbs.

I'll be there Thursday and Friday afternoons I expect, Friday maybe with a borrowed kite from a midget.

bahahahahaha
this is what happens when you introduce fun into WA pat, suddenly you find that everyone has a masters in meteorology, risk assessment, insurance ect

the danger of knight kiting when done by seasoned kiters is so low that those who think it should be condemned have to be kill joys, old ladies, grumpy old men or something similar.

sandy, your problem is not that guys are going kiting at night but the fact that it hasnt been said that it should only be done by those with considerable kiting experience in varying extremes.
this is also petty as its common sense not to go kitng at night if you haven't mastered doing it during the day.

you should correct your message to show this from now on. what pat did was not dangerous to a level that justifies the response you have given, your message should be that promoting nighting with out a 10 page legal disclaimer could lead to some one copying you and dieing from a shark attack, freek gust ect.

when you are at the stage when everything is going horribly wrong and you can keep a cool head about what you are doing then you know you can start to push your limit further.

quote:

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Originally posted by GreenPat
1. Do you have a copy of the public liability terms and conditions?

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No. PLI policies are pretty general though and similar to 3rd party MV insurance. Simply put, it is a contract between you (a WAKSA member) and the insurance company. But if a Coroner or Court establishes you were willfully Reckless or Negligent or finds you personally culpable in a PL incident, the Insurance Company would be at greater liberty to refuse your claim. You would then need to take the insurance company to Court and you could lose with costs - but it depends on the situation of course. Insurance Companies are not known for paying out claims they dont have to.

quote:

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2. Safety First. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

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See, this PROVES you are not just a Kook. You are a Dangerous Kook. You dont think the safety of others is your first priority. Q.E.D.

quote:

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3. See my report in the thread here: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26687&whichpage=1&replies=31&PageSize=30&mxPages=2 Read the 9th paragraph in the 6th post up from the bottom on the first page. And the tenth.

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No thanks. After seeing your reply #2 above I've read enough of your cr*p. No doubt its just more of you convincing yourself that you are always right, never wrong, and wont/cant accept correction. I'm not going to debate this endlessly GreenPat. I've made my point. You disagree. I've covered your main points reasonably well for the benefit of others. Nothing much left to say except Night Kiting is an extremely dangerous practice. Only Kooks do it.

But I think I already said that. Nothing you have said has changed my view.

quote:

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Originally posted by ianyoung

So Rellie, you noticed my hot chick groupies eh

They are one of many inspirations for my sculpture http://members.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/human.html

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wow, Ian, I am impressed
No kidding, few of them are absolutelly amazing.
What's their real size?
When some inspired from Kitesurfing?

Silviu

quote:

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Originally posted by poor relative
i suggest you write to your local member of parliment, who i would imagine would give even less of a crap.

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Thanks for the suggestion. Actually I'll only need to email the Rockingham Council. I'll point out how KiteSurfing and Hanggliding issues at Cottesloe were raised in 2001 and 2004 and led to Council imposing restrictions on both:
1. Must be a member of the relavant association to kite/hang
2. Association must annualy prove Public Liability insurance
3. Association must indemify council
4. Association must pay for signage at beach
5. Member must observe safety practices
6. Council may ban kiting/hanging without reason.

This is where Night Kiting at Safety Bay is going to take us.

quote:

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Why not try it on a full moon. You might have fun?

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If you're going to do this stunt - and it is a stunt - then do it at Woodies not Safety Bay, because Rockingham Council *WILL* be informed (thanks to your suggestion). Woodies is is a much safer location, apart from the other marinecraft. You'll still have trouble seeing each other at night, and rescue services - if you need them (more likely you will) - are greatly limited at night. You'll need a helicopter with IR to do a search at night, rather than a boat/land based search. You oughta be made to pay for a heli rescue, if it can find you that is.

But I expect, if the area was strictly controlled and off limits to other marine craft, plus with the addition of a few flood lights from shore, you could kite at night at your own risk. That is to say, you would have taken reasonable measures to protect others.

I dont agree that the wind is better at night. Generally the Fremantle Doctor drops off during the evening. I dont agree that it would be fun. It would be different. I accept that you may think differnt = fun. I dont. Different = different. You'll get sick of it when the novelty wears off, or when ppl stop giving you the attention you're seeking from this.

Thats all this is really. Attention seeking. Ok so, now you've got my attention. Happy with the result so far

At the risk of opening a can of worms here...

Let's say we've got two kiters. Kiter 1 enjoys afternoon kiting, Kiter 2 enjoys kiting in the evening with a full moon.

Let's say they both get into trouble, and don't turn up at their appointed spot at the right time, so an alarm is raised.

For the afternoon kiter, this will be some time around 7pm, when it's starting to get dark. By the time a helicopter is put into the air, it will be dark, so it's pointless flying.
For the evening kiter, this will be some time probably around 2am or so...

Let's say the helicopter goes off looking at first light, and finds them clinging to a marker buoy.

Afternoon kiter has spent 12 hours clinging to the buoy, evening kiter has spent 5 hours.

Which kiter is more likely to survive?

Dob in your favourite sport to the council, we don't need any unwanted attention as it is, your a friggen kook. If YOUR to KOOK to kite at night then DONT do it, its that simple. Until your PROFICIENT enough to be able to kite at night then your opinion on how safe it is, is WORTHLESS. I have kited at night before and its NOT DANGEROUS if you know what you are doing, know the local conditions etc.

Also kite at woodies, good idea you jerk. Either almost dead on shore or dead offshore, yeah great idea. Whilst I would kite at night in either of these conditions if they were suitable, a place like safety bay is a lot safer than a place like woodies IMO.

It all comes down to the fact your a kook, I don't want to offend anyone here. Before you learnt to kite you probably thought riding along took a fair bit of skill, maybe now you think backrolls are a pretty hard trick. For an experienced kiter kiting at night should be no problem is my point. From a noob looking in they think its friggen dangerous and difficult, why don't you give it a try? looks windy this friday night, see you at woodies maybe, night kite yewwww

quote:

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Originally posted by sandgroper

quote:

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Originally posted by GreenPat
1. Do you have a copy of the public liability terms and conditions?

---

No. PLI policies are pretty general though and similar to 3rd party MV insurance. Simply put, it is a contract between you (a WAKSA member) and the insurance company. But if a Coroner or Court establishes you were willfully Reckless or Negligent or finds you personally culpable in a PL incident, the Insurance Company would be at greater liberty to refuse your claim. You would then need to take the insurance company to Court and you could lose with costs - but it depends on the situation of course. Insurance Companies are not known for paying out claims they dont have to.

quote:

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2. Safety First. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

---

See, this PROVES you are not just a Kook. You are a Dangerous Kook. You dont think the safety of others is your first priority. Q.E.D.

quote:

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3. See my report in the thread here: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26687&whichpage=1&replies=31&PageSize=30&mxPages=2 Read the 9th paragraph in the 6th post up from the bottom on the first page. And the tenth.

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No thanks. After seeing your reply #2 above I've read enough of your cr*p. No doubt its just more of you convincing yourself that you are always right, never wrong, and wont/cant accept correction. I'm not going to debate this endlessly GreenPat. I've made my point. You disagree. I've covered your main points reasonably well for the benefit of others. Nothing much left to say except Night Kiting is an extremely dangerous practice. Only Kooks do it.

But I think I already said that. Nothing you have said has changed my view.

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I'll give you a quick reply to this post, possibly to your latest a bit later, but it's getting rather boring. If I didn't think a few people were getting a good laugh out of this I would have given up ages ago.

1. I've requested a copy of the policy and will be going over it with a couple of lawyers just out of interest's sake. Only because they are my father and my sister mind, I'm not that worried about it. I daresay it would be interesting trying to prove that I was wilfully reckless or negligent, despite your rantings, as I have a counter argument for all of them. Perhaps they might pull me up on the colour of my orange glow stick.

2. I still fail to see how I am disregarding the safety of others considering that the only others present were two crusty old fishos upwind of me on the jetty. By the way, in case you don't realise, upwind is opposite to downwind, the direction you get blown when things go wrong. A bit like South is 135 degrees from North-East.

3. You lose whatever credibility you may have had (I don't think there was much) by refusing to consider all the information to hand. Will your lawyers (or those of the insurance company) be similarly negligent? My day in court is looking good for the good guys

Saw an interesting tee shirt on the train yesterday,,,

"Skydiving Saves Lives...

From Mediocrity!"

Maybe one could be made up for the person who chooses to go night kiting?

I reckon go for it...
If
a. it's a full or nearly full moon
b. you have plenty of Xylume (Glow) sticks
c. you have a few mates around
Back in 2004 we night windsurfed at Woodies (How dangerous and kooky is that )
www.westozwind.com.au/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=12
Had a ball, and a BBQ after
Maybe a few sticks in the water as markers near obstacles and the shore to keep your bearings. The more you kite it during the day, the less this will be an issue.
Safety Bay is pretty "Safe"
Next full moon is the 4th of April.
Enjoy

Well at least you have the name sorted out.
Now all you need is the BBQ and a few glow sticks
I assume the mates part is not a problem.
A community experience not to be missed.

quote:

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Originally posted by GreenPat

A bit like South is 135 degrees from North-East.

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Whoops, was in a bit of a hurry there and didn't proof read properly. While South is 135 degrees from North-East, I was meaning to have another dig at your comment that wind from the North-West is gusty. So South is 135 degrees from North-West, as well as North-East.

I don't think I'll bother reply to your latest though Sandy, there's really no point.

The board of a Kite Club recently looked into the policy and it sounds like there may be some let downs in this so I'd kite safe and try not to put too much faith in it

I may not be in the best graces for sharing this but what can you do.

That, doesn't surprise me.
You can get killed just by walking on the footpath.