Forums > Kitesurfing General

Entry level foils boards for beginners

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Created by kiteboy dave > 9 months ago, 5 Apr 2015
Adrian Roper
83 posts
21 Apr 2015 9:53AM
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kkiter said..
$2200 is not bad when you consider how much work goes into making a carbon foil. A bit steep for aluminium, but you will pay up to $1200 for a twin tip worth $50 to manufacture in a press. They pop them out like pop tarts


knitter you are miles off with your assumption on the cost of a TT

kkiter
NSW, 415 posts
22 Apr 2015 12:35AM
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Wasn't meant to be read verbatim. Just trying to get a point across. However the prices in some shops are outrageous. If you're so upset about it give us some production costs on your Axis boards.

Regards
knitter

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
22 Apr 2015 9:14AM
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Or preferably start another thread if you want to continue it because this one's about low cost foils, that's right "knitter" they go up to $5000 ish. $2200 is cheap, especially when you're buying a board and a foil. I have also noticed that you pay more or less 2k for a SUP, an windsurf board, a premium longboard (Mctavish etc) or even a top of the line wakeboard package. And that's just watersports. If you wanna play, you pay.

Back on track, I've just seen that KFA have updated their website with the "T1" model Aluminium foil at $1200.

We have designed an entry level foil. This foil has an alluminium strut as and plate and comes optional with aluminum foils or carbon mk1 front and aft foil ($500 extra).

www.kitefoil.com.au/store/#!/KFA-T1/p/43101930/category=0

Interested to see some feedback on that.


au_rick
WA, 743 posts
22 Apr 2015 2:32PM
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What ??? New fad ?? $2200 ???

I was looking at buying a foil for $US600 in 2007 but decided I had enough toys already and gave the money to a deserving cause instead

dafunk
QLD, 547 posts
22 Apr 2015 6:09PM
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Are there any bolt on foils ? just for fun .

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
22 Apr 2015 9:47PM
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au_rick said..
What ??? New fad ?? $2200 ???



People said exactly that when I bought a new naish aero kite in 2002 - there were no 2nd hand ones then.

snalberski
WA, 556 posts
23 Apr 2015 12:17PM
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kiteboy dave said..
Or preferably start another thread if you want to continue it because this one's about low cost foils, that's right "knitter" they go up to $5000 ish. $2200 is cheap, especially when you're buying a board and a foil. I have also noticed that you pay more or less 2k for a SUP, an windsurf board, a premium longboard (Mctavish etc) or even a top of the line wakeboard package. And that's just watersports. If you wanna play, you pay.

Back on track, I've just seen that KFA have updated their website with the "T1" model Aluminium foil at $1200.

We have designed an entry level foil. This foil has an alluminium strut as and plate and comes optional with aluminum foils or carbon mk1 front and aft foil ($500 extra).

www.kitefoil.com.au/store/#!/KFA-T1/p/43101930/category=0

Interested to see some feedback on that.



Yeah nice save

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Apr 2015 10:19AM
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www.kitesurfgrenadines.com/the-8-stages-of-kite-foiling-by-jeremie-tronet/

I'm a bit of 4 and a bit of 5 at the moment

kkiter
NSW, 415 posts
27 Apr 2015 11:26AM
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I put some Predator footstraps on my foilboard. They release your foot really easily when it all goes bad. No broken ankles or torn tendons.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Apr 2015 3:00PM
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Predators sound like a good compromise, or even just a front one.

These 2 vids are good for noobs like me, focussed on foil handling in water and how to fall.






cbulota
WA, 1131 posts
2 May 2015 10:02AM
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oldbones
QLD, 89 posts
2 May 2015 1:14PM
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Multiple wing height and length positions, nice! Emu bitter evolution i'm guessing?

havasubob
5 posts
6 May 2015 2:32AM
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Great job here Dave.... aggregating a lot of excellent and affordable FoilBoard options.

Raising another point regarding the mast connections, ....is it generally understood that a mast with a 4-bolt mounting plate is the most universal of connection methods? It appears that the various, mfgr specific T-box styles appear to challenge compatibility for alternate board options, other than the original, matched board/foil design. Cheers HB

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
6 May 2015 9:20AM
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Thanks bob. As for standard connections, I'm not sure whether all 4 bolt plates are done to the same hole centres? Also Carafino (and other?) I think went for a diamond plate rather than square. I believe the Camet board either connects with them all natively or comes with some kinda adapter - it's a bit pricey though, not for mere mortals.

Fastafoil are offering a 10 of their carbon fibre Delta shape foils for $1400 plus delivery/tax. Could be a good option if you like the foil fish ride characteristics but want to choose your own board and prefer full carbon. 10 only though.
www.facebook.com/fastafoil






kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
7 May 2015 8:43AM
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New porn uploaded by Alpine Foil. I've read some good reviews on the big forum. Definitely top of my list at the moment.






kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
7 May 2015 8:46AM
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And one more showing the upgrade "Sport" wings on the access (aluminium) mast/fuselage.
The race "XLD" wings can go on as well.

havasubob
5 posts
7 May 2015 8:54AM
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They're beauties, for sure...I've noticed that the wings for Alpinefoil are mounted with staggered fasteners into the fuselage. No doubt this would help keeping the wing from rocking side-2-side. The diagrams on the Manta show them all in-line, which after some rough play, could get the wiggles. Does the Alpinefoil have distribution in the US or Canada yet? gotta love this foil-porn !

rongroen
WA, 59 posts
7 May 2015 7:38PM
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Great work Dave,

from the racing section we got this review


fastafoildotcom said..
Hi Guys - I'm based in Montpellier, France and have been foiling since may 2008.

Following on from the 2014 Americas Cup 2015 will no doubt be 'LIFT OFF' for kite foiling.
If your already reading about it on the web, its too late you've already caught the Foiling BUG.... Dig deep as performance foils are expensive to build.

No words to describe the sensation - unless you've tried it you can't understand it.
It's the 3rd dimension of sailing, windsurfing or kiting....

Regarding kitefoils on this side of the planet - here's my two cents of an overview:

France has been for sometime leading the way regarding kite foils - that does not mean to say that I'm biased.
I'm an English guy thats been residing here on the French Mediterranean for over 10yrs.

Lots of good new foil producing companies cropping up all over the globe recently.

The Taaroa Sword is the defacto race engine together with Spotz - I believe that the Spotz foil is cheaper however - both are full carbon and are Race Specific foils.

I've never ridden KFA foil but the word here is that they work well - chapeau les gars as they say here.

The Ketos foil (Alps based composite manufacturer) here in France is the most mature carbon foil on the market - it works in all modes of riding - learning, free-ride, wave, race and speed wings are available and its priced competitively @ 1690€ Really good after sales service and quality of product.

Fastafoil (my company) Sencillo shares the Ketos fuselage and we produce wings for learning and progression(good to 26+ knots) st'd format and free-ride wings.
Easy to use, no sharp trailing edges unlike some foils that can cut not only your wetsuit...

Zeeko for 2015 have pulled out all the stops - completely new foils both Carbon and Alloy. As I said in an earlier post their Alu foil will be the most cost effective foil on the market (sub 800€) and will, in my opinion, be suitable for 90% of kitefoil riders - it's an really good design and performs. The carbon foil is on a par with the Sword for all out speed and racing - beautiful finish and graphics.

Horue - they produce both kite and windsurf foils and they work well.

Alpine Foil - another alps based foil mfc - Damien continues to produce beautifully finished foils and their Alu foil should be something special. Alu fuselage machined on a 5 axis CNC milling machine - the alu mast plugs into the fuselage. Some issues with twist flex in the carbon legs however I presume this was due to teething problems on the early production front.

The Kitefoil Co - middle east based French foil designer who produced the 2013/2014 Zeeko foils.
The Manta is heavy but I'm sure that it works well. At a recent Spring foil event the lack of board meant that it was impossible to test the foil. The 2015 kite board I'm told verges a little on the heavy side.

F.One foil (2900€) with board - easy to use foil that is geared towards beginners and progressive foiling. Like all things F.One a quality product and an ingenious design.

North - I've seen the foil in person and it is heavy, very heavy almost the same weight as the Alloy Liquid Force foil however at almost 3000€ it's twice as expensive.
But you get the bonus of being able to trap your foot in the foil and risk breaking your ankle if anything goes pear shaped. Nice finish though.

Liquid Force - great beginner foil but limited to circa 15knts top speed with standard foil wings.
The Kitefoil Co are offering replacement wing sets (600 to 700$ a set)

Gong - Beautifully finished Chinese mfc foil @ 999€ the complete foil. It works but kangaroos gravely the faster you accelerate.
Rear wing needs to be inversed for it to work efficiently and it needs a vertical foil to stop it from snaking at speed.

Lift Foils - outside of Europe but Nick Leason has done a great job of developing his foil range. Apparently they work a treat.

Moses - Italian based foil mfc. No first hand experience but they look good and I know a couple of guys who have learnt to foil with them without any hassle.

Bruno Sroka - no presence at the recent foil spring gathering so difficult to comment. Lots of screws and bolts but an original concept. Some what limited on Vmax but no doubt the foil works - Bruno knows his stuff so I'm looking forward to riding it once they start appearing on the beach.

There are other foil mfc here in the EU apologies if I've missed you out - everyones knowledge is limited by their exposure.

The human body is an amazing machine - it will adapt, adapt and adapt.
If you purchase a poor performing kitefoil and there are good and bad foils - like any market.
The human body will adapt and learn to accommodate the pitfalls of performance defaults - your learning may be slightly slower but the magic carpet rider experience is what is important. Enjoy and aim to be full foil tacking asap.

One French brand I forgot is Radical - Jerome makes really sexy foils that are very efficient and easy to ride. The Radical board brand has been around since the debut of Kitesurfing and Jerome has been building foils for as long as I have. His wife Sophie was the ladies World Cup Foil champ last year - if my memory serves me correctly.


LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
8 May 2015 10:03AM
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Hi Dave,excellent work investigating the options.Ron's thougher comments and wealth of experience will prove to be a great aid for potential foilers.Been watching with ega expectation of spending up on some gear.Hey your a long time dead.So with that moto inplace I am going with Marvin at KFAustralia.I know there is a fair bit of choice and was tending towards the Alpine set up either full carbon foil and wave board with all options included for $3148 but not knowing how much extra Aus taxes were on top of that figure.The Alpine 5.0 Alum.carbon xl size foils with wave board with no options for $1744 not including aus taxes.The Alpine foils look the goods but for me buying gear from outside of Aus makes me a bit edgy.Not Quite knowing the hidden expenses with importing delivery cost and overall customer service if there is issues with freight damage or actual build quality.What if theirs a problem with the gear and you have to ship it back.Anyway thats my two bobs worth,I am going Aus made gear makes me feel better about supporting our own people.I have only heard positive feedback about KFA.Thanks again Dave for kicking off your forum am keen as to experience foiling fever.

dusta
WA, 2881 posts
8 May 2015 8:51AM
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you wont be dissapointed with your KFA Leigh .

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
8 May 2015 10:55AM
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Thanks Ron great roundup from Mr. Fastafoil. I doubt there's many others out there who have feedback on so many. The fact that he sells his own one but is willing to praise others for their strengths makes him seem very reputable.

Leigh - thanks for sharing your quotes. Good to hear you're supporting KFA, and I agree about buying Australian. Are you going Mk3 or their mixed material foil? The Mk3 looks sweet, but it's totally out of my budget - for now anyway. Looking forward to more info coming out about their cheap foil.

LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
8 May 2015 10:02PM
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Hey Dave,yes mate getting the moths out of the wallet and going with the Mk3 full carbon,with the big guy Temavento board,I 'am 96kgs so with more litres easier to get started on.From the information available and advice given I am sure there's foiling fever brewing.It looks like flying on water once you get through the pain.I have put my order in so will be hanging out to have a fair crack at foiling with Quality gear.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
8 May 2015 10:19PM
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I got out today, had a little underpowered session with my Zephyr. Still feeling the buzz from it even though i was way underpowered, it was probably what I needed to ease back in. First time in about a year for me, mostly because of the acquisition last year of 12 screws & 2 plates holding my elbow together. A lot of hardware in a small space. Very happy it held up to kiting, it means one of the pieces falls into place for foiling. I deliberately went to the nearest spot to me where foiling happens (other than ocean) to check it out -today would have been perfect for learning with around 10kts , super flat water, high tide. There's a lot of sandbars to be avoided though. I can see some tumbles. On that note I also stood on a breakwater 1m above the water with my kite in the sky today and imagined falling at speed - suffice it to say I'll be wearing wettie, impact vest, and helmet for sure.






LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
9 May 2015 5:41AM
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Hey Dave,sounds like your elbow has some serious hardware installed.Like you I am only two weeks out in recovery from a total left hip replacement with titanium hardware, and have time to do all the recon on foiling.Probs a good month away from easing myself back into just cruising about without trying to foil.Had some excellent advice so far and bought a few second hand edges for foiling.One chap from WA Andrew sold me an edge is also one of the gun foilers over there and he has been a big help in going with KFA and offering advice on technique when learning,so here's what he said hope it helps.Been told to keep the board on the water,not to get lift just get used to riding the board first with foil attached but not lifting of the water surface until you become accustomed to your gear.Also choose a kite size similar to what you would use on your twin tip.The extra size allows you to park the kite and concentrate on your board skills.Thats probs the main pointers that make sense to me.When I pick up my gear of Marvin in Nth Qld.will get some more pointers and have a few sessions with the master.Dave all the best with your elbow.Regards Leigh

INTHELOOP
QLD, 1852 posts
9 May 2015 9:17AM
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Hi guys,we are always happy to help and assist learners to get the right intro to foiling.
A few good points Leigh but I am not sure who told you to use a similar kite size as you would when you riding a twin tip? I recommend to use at least one size smaller than you normally would.The hardest thing on a hydrofoil is to ride overpowered. Being overcooked you will have the biggest crashes on the foil. Once you are up on the foil you need bugger all power as the drag is very little.If you are overpowered park the kite at 11 or 1 or higher. Always push the bar out once you are on the foil and try to keep your kite stable in one position. Happy foiling lads!

LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
9 May 2015 9:56AM
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Thanks Marvin,yes once up and foiling would mean less drag and less kite size required got it makes sense.Trouble for me I am getting more amped as I get closer to foiling.Unlike most of the other folks who have actually had foil time and can reflect on the sessions.Anyway I will be sucking up as much positive info and feedback possible without blowing a fuse in the old mellon.I have found with my operation and rehab that I am like a cat on a hot tin roof.Bloody hanging out for a kite.Love this sport.Just gets better and better.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
11 May 2015 10:31AM
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Hey Leigh hope the hip's going well - pretty major op I imagine. I know the feeling being forced to sit it out makes you pretty stir crazy - I'm obsessed with foils hence the thread. Hoping to kite once a week too now I've started again. I guess you & I will be in the same boat - hoping everything holds up when paying our dues. I know I couldn't handle big stacks at the moment, but hopefully in a few more months things will be that much stronger.




kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
11 May 2015 5:14PM
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^^not sure why that offended the red thumb gods, maybe this will appease them. New vid shows foils aren't all about racing. Nice to see some aggression too.

LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
12 May 2015 8:01AM
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Thanks Dusta,I need all the confidence possible when forking out big dollars.With my 60th coming up I have no time to waste.Your a long time dead!!!!!!Just had a mate pass away last Sunday brain cancer.Rest in peace Steve Lokic his friends and family will dearly miss him especially from the Angourie,Yamba area.Lets live life to the max,its never to late to have a crack.Fully Foiled.Yeha

LeighMajor
NSW, 199 posts
12 May 2015 8:21AM
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Thanks Dave,yes mate going great improving every day.Not limping like I was before op.Getting more flexibility now,considering I have had trouble getting dressed putting on socks or lacing up runners is still out of the question.Slip ons or thongs are the go for the present.Anyway there are lot of people worse off.Love that latest vid.Jumping and foils are possible but very risky.Would not want to land on the foil!!!! YEOUCH.The guy looked like he knew what he was doing as the vid went on.And getting big height and float with foil kite.Nice one man.Bloody amping me up big time.Cheers



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"Entry level foils boards for beginners" started by kiteboy dave