Full HD waterproof video camera??

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samoht

QLD

111 posts

samoht

QLD, 111 posts

18 Jul 2009 10:39pm

Hi Guys,
I am looking at buying a Sanyo VCP WH1, water proof HD video camera, and I am intending to do the editing on a mac book pro, running 10.4
~~http://sanyo.com/xacti/english/products/vpc_wh1/index.html~~

Can you pick it to bits for me,
I like the idea of SD cards, and also Mpeg4,
but I am not sure if HD-SHQ: 1280 x 720 (30 fps/ 9Mbps is enough.

I am off to Vanuatu on Tuesday for 2 weeks of kiting, and the other guys have designated me the official photographer, (since i did it on the Maldives trip a few years ago) gotta measure up and cant disappoint, so need the right Video.

Effective pixel count/Camera elements
Photos: Approx. 1.10-Megapixels
Videos: HD: Approx. 0.97-Megapixels SD: Approx. 1.10-Megapixels
Camera element1/6 inch CMOS sensor, Approx. 1.10-Megapixels (total)
Recording mediaSD Memory Card, SDHC Memory Card (up to 32GB)
Internal memory: Approx. 43 mb
Recording file formatsPhotos: JPEG (DCF*1, DPOF*2, Exif Ver2.2*3)
Videos: ISO standard MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 (.MP4)
Audio: 48kHZ sampling, 16bit, 2ch, AAC
Resolution (pixels)Photos*42M: 1600 x 1200*4,
1.1M: 1184 x 888
0.9M[16:9]: 1280 x 720
0.3M: 640 x 480
Continuous shots2M: 1600 x 1200, 13fps/Max 29 photos
1.1M: 1184 x 888, 13fps/Max 30 photos
Videos*5HD-SHQ: 1280 x 720 (30 fps/ 9Mbps)
TV-HR: 640 x 480 (60 fps/6Mbps)
TV-SHQ: 640 x 480 (30 fps/3Mbps)
Lens30x optical zoom lens; Aperture: F=1.8(W) ? 4.3(T)
Focus distance: f=2.5 to 75.0mm;
Galvanometer method structure, Auto focus: 7 groups, 10 elements (2 aspheric elements, 3 aspheric surfaces), Built-in neutral density filter
Photos: f=43-1290mm(=35mm) Optical 30x zoom
Videos: f=43-1290mm(=35mm) Optical 30x zoom
Photo rangeStandard: 50cm to infinity (wide), 1.0m to infinity (tele)
Super macro: 1cm ? 1m (wide)
Digital zoomShooting: 50x max., Playback 25x max. (2M mode, depending on the resolution)
Low light sensitivity (video)Approx. 11 lux (Auto mode, 1/30 sec.)
Approx. 3 lux (High-sensitivity/ Lamp mode, 1/15 sec.)
Stills sensitivityAuto (ISO 50 ? 200), Manual (ISO 50/100/200/400/800/1600, Switching system)
Digital Image StabilizerPhotos: Digital Image Stabilizer (electronic), Videos: Digital Image Stabilizer (electronic)
AudioMicrophone: Built-in stereo, Speaker: Built-in monaural (L+Rch mixed output)
LCD monitor2.5 inch, Low-temperature polysilicon TFT color LCD display,
Approx. 150,000 pixels (7-level brightness, 285 degrees rotation)
LanguagesEnglish/ Japanese/ French/ German/ Spanish/ Italian/ Dutch/ Russian/ Portuguese/ Turkish/ Japanese/ Thai/ Korean/ Simplified Chinese/ Traditional Chinese
InterfaceAV output Video: HDMI/Composite video, NTSC/PAL
USB 2.0 (high-speed mode compatible)
Power sourceLithium-ion battery x 1 (DB-L50 included: 1900mAh)
Power consumptionWhen using battery: 3.0W (when filming videos)
Approx. battery-use time*6Photos: Approx. 450shots (CIPA standard), Continuous video filming: Approx. 200min.
Continuous playback: Approx. 570 min.
Dimensions/Volume58.7 (W) x 62.8 (H) x 112.4 (D)mm (maximum dimension, excluding protruding parts),
Volume: Approx. 327cc
WeightApprox. 311g (main unit only), Approx. 354g (including battery, Approx. 41 g, and SD card, Approx. 2 g)

Pick it to bits and tell me if it will work ????
Cheers

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

18 Jul 2009 11:34pm

it will work.

you will have hassles with sanyo's mpeg 4 codec for any serious editing.HD at 9mbs - thats a joke. SD dv is 25mb/s , HDV is 25mbs - 9mbs - pffft - not enough bandwidth to do the magic i am afraid.

you are better off with SD DV at 25mbsi am astounded at how much of a nightmare this mpeg 4 issue is for punters who want to get into video - DV was always plug and play

samoht

QLD

111 posts

samoht

QLD, 111 posts

19 Jul 2009 12:13pm

Thanks for that, I had not picked up on that side of it.
I will research further.
Any suggestions on Cameras.???? up considering price for what you get?

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

19 Jul 2009 2:05pm

to be honest its a total nightmare out there for punters who want to actually edit their footage - and trust me - you wont want to watch your raw footage. more than once

for hassle minimisation:

stick to Panasonic, Sony and Canon

Unless you have something like a pro editing set up avoid Flash card, Hard drive and DVD based camcorders like the plague.

Try and get an older MiniDVtape cam - Sd is a good place to start- super easy to edit.

HDV is ok but editing the codec is painful -(transcode unless you are on something grunty) In fact transcode no matter what you do.

HD is over rated - but beautiful when you have the full set up from capture to edit to deal with it. Well shot and lit SD looks really nice

Right now consumer Video has gone from plug and play to plug and pray

bit of a shame really!

ateloh

6 posts

ateloh

WA, 6 posts

1 Sep 2009 1:35pm

Reflex Films said...

try going across to DV or DVCpro - those are undemanding codecs for the computer to edit - but the file sizes will increase.

Hey Reflex, what type of films do you make? Got a website?

ateloh

6 posts

ateloh

WA, 6 posts

1 Sep 2009 1:48pm

I dont know much about Video cameras, except when it comes to the really high end stuff, to even filming on motion picture film [completely out of concept here].

But for editing. I've mainly use avid, and capture at a low resolution, edit my sequence. Then at the end, the program will recapture all the necessary footage in reference to the timeline, at its highest quality footage. It just tells me what tapes to insert and it does the rest and it will only import what is necessary. Just make sure you label your tapes.

This is one way, to avoid having a beefy editing machine, and still get really high quality product at the end. This method is used throughout high end post production houses in the industry, to even Hollywood.

I guess Final Cut would do something similar?

hoskoau

NSW

100 posts

hoskoau

NSW, 100 posts

1 Sep 2009 8:01pm

The Sony HVRA1P with a water proof case is probably the best way to go if your looking at for a good quality portable HD camera. Its the smaller version of the Sony HVR-V1 which is one of the most used portable (non broadcast over the sholder) cameras out there.

This is fairly costly though.

hoskoau

NSW

100 posts

hoskoau

NSW, 100 posts

2 Sep 2009 1:08am

Reflex Films said...

to be honest its a total nightmare out there for punters who want to actually edit their footage - and trust me - you wont want to watch your raw footage. more than once

Its not really a hassle if you have the right equipment. A Mac Book Pro or iMac with final cut will handle HDV and Panasonics P2 system easily. I know its a bit costly but Final Cut Express goes for around $270 these days and is a kick ass system.

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

2 Sep 2009 10:23am

i run mac gear and i have had clients give me footage from cheaper brand cameras that will not come in to my system - no matter what - quicktime wont reconise it - mpeg stream clip (a free tool that opens and transcodes nearly everything ) wont recognise it.

its a real headache. sometimes. Most of the time i can get the stuff in - but i have alot of tools at my disposal

Even JVC's brand of hdv wont come in! (unless you go through mpegstreamclip- and its quality is then drastically reduced!) - so it really is a minefield out there.

Stick with Sony , Panasonic and Canon and compatibility nightmares are greatly reduced.

DVCPROHD (an intraframe codec) off a p2 card is a joy to edit - about as processor demanding as good old DV. HDV is a render nightmare (inter frame compression is the culprit). waiting 10 minutes for a speed change, color grade, composition etc etc is a real creativity killer - especially when you consider that editing is a trial and error process of distillation.
mean while DVCPROHD previews most effects in real time no problem.

Final Cut express is a great package -back in the days of dv its what i started with- but it doesnt come with any intermediate codecs like pro res - so you are back to the nightmare that is editing natively in HDV . There may be an intermediate codec plug in that you can buy.

And i dont THINK (correct me if i am wrong) you can edit DVCPROHD on Final cut express - as far as i know it doesnt come with these hi end codecs - so there is another catch! As you can see there are Pitfalls everywhere for the unwary.

Unfortunately i havent really had the time to put a website together but i have put some of my work here:

~~http://exposureroom.com/50ffd6414c294e16b404493686e27b54/~~

from this link you can get to some HD housing / helmet cam wind / kite related stuff. (click on videos on the top menu bar for the full menu)

drift

VIC

737 posts

drift

VIC, 737 posts

2 Sep 2009 1:03pm

Reflex Films said...

Even JVC's brand of hdv wont come in! (unless you go through mpegstreamclip- and its quality is then drastically reduced!) - so it really is a minefield out there.

Hi Reflex,
We get the same issues with content that's shot on a multitude of formats and cameras. Regardless, we work on a C.I.C.O model- if you put Crap into your edit system ie shots poorly lit etc, you get Crap out of it!!
Here's a trick with JVC Everios....plug the camera in so you can see it on your desktop and go to the DCIM folder. change the file extension from .MOD to .MPG, then you can get them into FCP

hoskoau

NSW

100 posts

hoskoau

NSW, 100 posts

3 Sep 2009 12:14am

To be honest I've only ever worked with Sony's, the JVC 700E and the whole line of Pansonic P2 cameras. We use Avid at work but I wouldn't recommend this for anybody not working in a broadcast/post production facility. Final Cut is by far the most bang for your buck. Its what I run on my personal computers at home.

dachopper

1802 posts

dachopper

WA, 1802 posts

7 Sep 2009 11:18am

Reflex Films said...

i say go a SD DV tape cam - those panasonic gs 250 small 1'4 inch 3 chip series ones are great

and can be had super cheap now - probably less than 1 g.

And will edit like butter on even an ageing computer.

Or go HDv and transcode - My 3 year old Sony HC3 with housing works nicely- but you have to transcode - i go to apple int codec or pro res. And it has awesome telemacro..

What is the benifit of transcoding ?
I allways edit in native to avoid loss of quality and transcode once to dvd or blue ray format ?

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

7 Sep 2009 4:48pm

depends on the codec you capture in and how much grading / fx etc you want to do

google HDV interframe vs intraframe compression

and color space 4:2:2 4:2:0

and cmos rolling shutter for extra homework (not that transcoding will fix this but there are now plug ins that do)

hoskoau

NSW

100 posts

hoskoau

NSW, 100 posts

7 Sep 2009 8:34pm

dachopper said...
What is the benifit of transcoding ?
I allways edit in native to avoid loss of quality and transcode once to dvd or blue ray format ?

You don't want to edit with MPEG2 because it records a single frame and then for a sequence of frames only records the difference between that first frame (interframe). You want to transcode into a format that records each individual frame as a whole (intraframe). An intraframe codec will use up more disk space but will use a lot less horse power to playback and edit.

dachopper

1802 posts

dachopper

WA, 1802 posts

8 Sep 2009 11:51am

sony native .mt2 ?

Fooosh

563 posts

Fooosh

WA, 563 posts

9 Sep 2009 4:55pm

Toby B said...

Looking at purchasing a Full HD waterproof video camera with good optical zoom and was wondering what anyone out there has tried and their opinions??
What would you recommend?

Hi all, I'll try to summarise as there are actually two discussions going on in this interesting thread (feel free to correct me!) - high quality expensive and low quality cheaper

1. What do you want to use it for?

If it is for standing in the water and shooting, then tape would probably be your best option (eg, DV pro)
If it is for strapping on to kites, etc, then solid state memory would be more robust - eg memory sticks.
Either way, you'll need to look at waterproofing. Especially for the former, you'd want to have sensitive and easy controls and framing.
Fish eye and other lens attachments may also help.

2. What is your budget?

If low, then you'll have to go for the Lumix type cameras people are recommending!
However, with the 'new' technology of hard disk / AVHCD camcorders the older miniDV tape ones are tumbling in price! So pick up a bargain. NB: ReflexFilms not impressed with 'new' breed of cams.

3. What is your editing setup / final production specs?

If you want to make BluRay quality vids - eg for public sales - then you'll have to go down the tape and expensive camera route: most of Reflex Films posts. Plus have the editing hardware / software / know how to boot.

If you want to make YouTube quality videos, then really most will suffice, except the formats* that some of the cameras record in may be difficult to edit.

You can overcome this by changing the format into something like DV (which does not lose quality) for editing, then producing your final video from that in whatever you need.

NB: "HD" defines nothing!! at least in the discussion for these cameras and formats / compression.
*Formats synonymous with CODEC: Compressor / decompressor. eg, h264, mpeg2, dv.

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

9 Sep 2009 7:06pm

right - clear as mud then!

Fooosh

563 posts

Fooosh

WA, 563 posts

9 Sep 2009 10:20pm

Reflex Films said...

right - clear as mud then!

LOL!!

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

10 Sep 2009 10:56am

for those looking to learn more - here is a very handy interview that talks you through some of the format codec issues:

www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=3201141

sir ROWDY

5378 posts

sir ROWDY

WA, 5378 posts

10 Sep 2009 11:02am

I was goin to get the cheap water proof cam in this thread but after reading your posts Relflex and researching a bit it sounds like straight balls. I thought the waterproof bit would be good for cool angles and stuff, but then how often would that come in handy anyway, and as pointed out, alothough it's HD its actually pretty crap. I have a new 15inch macbook pro so editing shouldnt be an issue.
Im currently looking at a Cannon GL1 3CCD (secondhand) although apparently it hasn't been used much, hopefully I can get it for under $650... What you reckon? Apparently the mic wasn't that good, but that doesnt bother me so much.

Reflex Films

1463 posts

Reflex Films

WA, 1463 posts

10 Sep 2009 12:51pm

Thats a very nice camera! you will be able to do lots of nice stuff with it. Sounds like a great deal - you can (and should) use an external mic where sound is important (interviews etc) - you will get a nice punchy sound - instead of tinny sound with a whirr in the bgnd. I reccomend the rode video mic- cheap as.

Your mac pro will be able to handle lots of weirdnes - it has the raw grunt to deal with alot of todays dodgy codecs.

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