Spot on Slave................teaching at Leighton yesterday arvo.............one word..........MORON, SCHWACHKOPF, IDIOTA, CRETIN.

Okay settle ladies. This can get emotive. Like everyone I was not happy to hear about this. The instructors exist because there is a demand to learn kiting. Surely we'd rather have people at least getting lessons. More rats in the cage the probability of what has happened here increases.

Yet no point in fighting among ourselves as from what i can see we will have a bigger fight on our hands and very soon. Better we stay consolidated or at least respectful in our approach.

Let's hope this instructor has learnt a valuable lesson. Learners should not be exposed to such winds as yesterday.

I was 1km up the road at Dutchies and it was gustier than a winter front yesterday. Anything from 15-25+ knts.

I know what Leighton shoreline is like even in steady wind. BIG holes. Yesterday was just stupid. A 60KG student with a 10M

waveslave said...

Charl dv said...
Problem being is when someone goes through the school they stay at the spot because thats where they are comfortable and then the whole place gets crowded out.

Wow, what arrogance. ^^^
An instructor-guy complaining about crowdkiting at his private kite-school beach.
It's cause and effect, dude.
First comes the cause, then you get the effect.
Get it.
lol.

how about you read a bit better. I'm saying thats why you get beaches that are crowded, like you said cause - effect. no arrogance here mate only death leashes

LouD said...

Charl dv said...

gmd said...

Schooling needs to stop at any public beach with swimmers or beach goers - simple.
I have to see one responsible instructor yet at Mullalloo, Pinnaroo or Leighton not sending their students body dragging across the path of other kite surfers or close to beach walkers .. If they don't find a spot with NOBODY around but the students they should change their profession .. There are spots in Perth where you can do that and maybe not in 28knots of wind like yesterday in Mullalloo.
I would recommend to that beach goer to sue the cr@p out of that instructor and lodge a complaint with the council.
A driving school does not take a student onto the road until they can find the brake or do they here ??
And all that for $300 a lesson ??
There is only one schooling spot in Perth right now which I would consider reasonably safe and good for students. There are other spots but obviously too inconvenient for the schools and students.
regards
gmd

so you're saying no one should teach kiting anymore and the sport should just not grow at all.

Us "instructors" were at Mulalloo and pinaroo WAY before you were. hell when i started riding at pinnaz, before i was an instructor, i was one of maybe 5 others on the water other than the students and the other 4 were generally people who came through that school or has had dealings with them.

The only reason you were kiting with 4-5 others is that a lot of
regulars had left BECAUSE of the school. Pinnas had a regular, busy kiting fraternity well before AKS.(Flat water guys and wave kiters going to Little Island) Not trying to create any friction,or rub up old wounds, just stating historical facts.

When you are reffering to "that" school, do you mean AKS or the 2-3 schools prior to AKS.

dont just quote half my messages, take the entire thing in context and also refer to what i am replying to. if you look at my message i am basically just saying that telling people to completely stop teaching at beaches where other users are is stupid. stupid reply to stupid statement that someone else has made.
Teaching in crowds is quite manageable and easy if you follow the right procedures. in no way am i defending the dude who thought at leighton as in general i think its a **** beach to teach at anyway due to the points RPM brought up. my responses are all purely aimed at what gdm said.

Yesterday i was walking in a car park when some retard decided to run over my foot, so now i have a broken toe! hmm dont think they will be banning cars, cause they certanetly havent banned retarded drivers!!! unfortuntley crap happens in life and people need to take responsibility for their own actions and or omissions, the dude who stuffed up should take care of the incident and thats where it should end, ahh utopia where are you?

hamburglar said...

Charl dv said...

and suing someone just because you get a little graze is pathetic, grow up. its people like you which makes the world such a hard place to live in. ive been hit by kites, surfboards and even bodies being thrown by kites countless times and i havent sued anyone? never sued anyone for crashing into my car either..

so your saying here " i could of been a millionaire " ?

i could be??? f*** this wheres my lawyer?!!

Charl dv said...

and suing someone just because you get a little graze is pathetic, grow up. its people like you which makes the world such a hard place to live in. ive been hit by kites, surfboards and even bodies being thrown by kites countless times and i havent sued anyone? never sued anyone for crashing into my car either..

Have to agree... I have been done by lines on my neck and back and hit by kites several times... Take it for what it is.. Sure it pisses you off but have a word with the offender and let them learn a lesson. If you can walk away from a little mishap that someone has accidentally done then so be it. Realise that this is part of the sport given the length of the lines and sizes of kites..

Saying this though if stupidity or carelessness results in an innocent beach user getting taken down and injured to the point of needing medical assistance then I agree with the pursuing legal action on the basis of broken bones,loss of income or serious injury to children or bystanders.

Kiting has the element of risk involved.. We all know that.. The risk can be minimised especially to beach users if the instructor has headzone helmets and get's their students at least 100 meters from shore.. You can't drop a kite on a bystander on the beach if your out the back in deep water..

My 2 cents worth.

i reckon lessons from boats in deep water in WA might be the answer to over crowding! skippering the boat in a 2m swell and 25kn SWer... wouldn't put my hand up for that! body dragging around 500m or so offshore for people unfamiliar with the ocean and in the current climate of shark fear would be dead in the water as a kiting school business proposal surely?? (pardon the pun)

agree it makes sense though and friends of mine who are past lessons and progressing further i recommend stay well away from beach and surf zone for a while - and they usually do

seriously though kkiter - how do you guys manage it as a business model?

RPM said...

Charl dv said...

and suing someone just because you get a little graze is pathetic, grow up. its people like you which makes the world such a hard place to live in. ive been hit by kites, surfboards and even bodies being thrown by kites countless times and i havent sued anyone? never sued anyone for crashing into my car either..

Have to agree... I have been done by lines on my neck and back and hit by kites several times... Take it for what it is.. Sure it pisses you off but have a word with the offender and let them learn a lesson. If you can walk away from a little mishap that someone has accidentally done then so be it. Realise that this is part of the sport given the length of the lines and sizes of kites..

Saying this though if stupidity or carelessness results in an innocent beach user getting taken down and injured to the point of needing medical assistance then I agree with the pursuing legal action on the basis of broken bones,loss of income or serious injury to children or bystanders.

Kiting has the element of risk involved.. We all know that.. The risk can be minimised especially to beach users if the instructor has headzone helmets and get's their students at least 100 meters from shore.. You can't drop a kite on a bystander on the beach if your out the back in deep water..

My 2 cents worth.

I agree with RPM and it was meant that way ..
If a fellow kiter drops his kite on my head and apologizes .. so be it .. no problem even if I need stitches...
If a learner with an instructor drops a kite on a beach walker not aware of a potential danger this is different ..
We deal with negligence here .. not just an accident ...

I really wonder if the kite schools have council permits .. If they do what stops the coffee van driving into the AKS spot and selling coffee on the beach .. I doubt it is official .. please correct me if I am wrong ... conducting a business in a public place without a license is a good reason to be suspicious about the responsibility of the school owner and his staff. Conducting a business or conducting an organised event in a public place requires council approval, if you don't have it - stop doing it ..

It is about time the kiting community gets some activity going for schooling and training on a volunteer basis with a decent curriculum, like for example the life savers, scouts, radio amateurs or other organisations I know doing their own education.

I am not calling for WAKSA here, but it could be something one can look into...
We are more likely to get more people doing lessens on that basis than paying $300 for a lesson with questionable business practices.

my 2c
regards
gmd

Charl dv said...

LouD said...

Charl dv said...

gmd said...

Schooling needs to stop at any public beach with swimmers or beach goers - simple.
I have to see one responsible instructor yet at Mullalloo, Pinnaroo or Leighton not sending their students body dragging across the path of other kite surfers or close to beach walkers .. If they don't find a spot with NOBODY around but the students they should change their profession .. There are spots in Perth where you can do that and maybe not in 28knots of wind like yesterday in Mullalloo.
I would recommend to that beach goer to sue the cr@p out of that instructor and lodge a complaint with the council.
A driving school does not take a student onto the road until they can find the brake or do they here ??
And all that for $300 a lesson ??
There is only one schooling spot in Perth right now which I would consider reasonably safe and good for students. There are other spots but obviously too inconvenient for the schools and students.
regards
gmd

so you're saying no one should teach kiting anymore and the sport should just not grow at all.

Us "instructors" were at Mulalloo and pinaroo WAY before you were. hell when i started riding at pinnaz, before i was an instructor, i was one of maybe 5 others on the water other than the students and the other 4 were generally people who came through that school or has had dealings with them.

The only reason you were kiting with 4-5 others is that a lot of
regulars had left BECAUSE of the school. Pinnas had a regular, busy kiting fraternity well before AKS.(Flat water guys and wave kiters going to Little Island) Not trying to create any friction,or rub up old wounds, just stating historical facts.

When you are reffering to "that" school, do you mean AKS or the 2-3 schools prior to AKS.

dont just quote half my messages, take the entire thing in context and also refer to what i am replying to. if you look at my message i am basically just saying that telling people to completely stop teaching at beaches where other users are is stupid. stupid reply to stupid statement that someone else has made.
Teaching in crowds is quite manageable and easy if you follow the right procedures. in no way am i defending the dude who thought at leighton as in general i think its a **** beach to teach at anyway due to the points RPM brought up. my responses are all purely aimed at what gdm said.

Teaching in crowds is never manageable and there are no valid procedures to do so. The mighty dollar is the driving force for such actions only

Accidents will happen and get brushed under the carpet,

LouD said...

Charl dv said...

LouD said...

Charl dv said...

gmd said...

Schooling needs to stop at any public beach with swimmers or beach goers - simple.
I have to see one responsible instructor yet at Mullalloo, Pinnaroo or Leighton not sending their students body dragging across the path of other kite surfers or close to beach walkers .. If they don't find a spot with NOBODY around but the students they should change their profession .. There are spots in Perth where you can do that and maybe not in 28knots of wind like yesterday in Mullalloo.
I would recommend to that beach goer to sue the cr@p out of that instructor and lodge a complaint with the council.
A driving school does not take a student onto the road until they can find the brake or do they here ??
And all that for $300 a lesson ??
There is only one schooling spot in Perth right now which I would consider reasonably safe and good for students. There are other spots but obviously too inconvenient for the schools and students.
regards
gmd

so you're saying no one should teach kiting anymore and the sport should just not grow at all.

Us "instructors" were at Mulalloo and pinaroo WAY before you were. hell when i started riding at pinnaz, before i was an instructor, i was one of maybe 5 others on the water other than the students and the other 4 were generally people who came through that school or has had dealings with them.

The only reason you were kiting with 4-5 others is that a lot of
regulars had left BECAUSE of the school. Pinnas had a regular, busy kiting fraternity well before AKS.(Flat water guys and wave kiters going to Little Island) Not trying to create any friction,or rub up old wounds, just stating historical facts.

When you are reffering to "that" school, do you mean AKS or the 2-3 schools prior to AKS.

dont just quote half my messages, take the entire thing in context and also refer to what i am replying to. if you look at my message i am basically just saying that telling people to completely stop teaching at beaches where other users are is stupid. stupid reply to stupid statement that someone else has made.
Teaching in crowds is quite manageable and easy if you follow the right procedures. in no way am i defending the dude who thought at leighton as in general i think its a **** beach to teach at anyway due to the points RPM brought up. my responses are all purely aimed at what gdm said.

No worries Charl. Not taking any personal shots at you!.
Agree with you- as long as schools operate safely, liase with and respect locals(kiters and non kiters) and dont try and take over popular kiting spots, I have no problem where they operate.

i agree there are a lot of irresponsible schools or even unlicensed ones operating around perth. i see them operating in dangerous manners everywhere but the responses that have come out of a lot of people have been aimed at the whole teaching community and not the individuals in question.

once again to Ray, if the schools werent there in the first place 80% of the people kiting at these spots wouldn't be either, in fact i think the kiting population would be cut by a good 70% at least. There would also probably be more self taught people who have no idea what they're doing, this would in turn endanger everyone even more as its in an even less controlled environment. remember there are pros and cons for every situation

mazdon said...

i reckon lessons from boats in deep water in WA might be the answer to over crowding! skippering the boat in a 2m swell and 25kn SWer... wouldn't put my hand up for that! body dragging around 500m or so offshore for people unfamiliar with the ocean and in the current climate of shark fear would be dead in the water as a kiting school business proposal surely?? (pardon the pun)

agree it makes sense though and friends of mine who are past lessons and progressing further i recommend stay well away from beach and surf zone for a while - and they usually do

seriously though kkiter - how do you guys manage it as a business model?

The schools that operate in Sydney (Botany Bay) have been using this model successfully for several years now. Botany Bay does not have 2m ocean swells. It's probably not suitable for WA open ocean teaching. Kitepower has the most experience teaching from boats. Call them for details.

Charl dv said...
i agree there are a lot of irresponsible schools or even unlicensed ones operating around perth. i see them operating in dangerous manners everywhere but the responses that have come out of a lot of people have been aimed at the whole teaching community and not the individuals in question.

once again to Ray, if the schools werent there in the first place 80% of the people kiting at these spots wouldn't be either, in fact i think the kiting population would be cut by a good 70% at least. There would also probably be more self taught people who have no idea what they're doing, this would in turn endanger everyone even more as its in an even less controlled environment. remember there are pros and cons for every situation

I agree. I don't see schools as the issue, I see schools acting irresponsible (just like kiters acting irresponsibly) as the issue and its unfair to tar everyone with the same brush.

That said, nobody wants to be the nasty one to report them because its unaustralian to dob in someone. Unfortunately, this means that the kitesurfing community as a whole bare the brunt of the backlash rather than those who are irresponsible.

I disagree however with hiding these issues. I think its worse to hide the issues than to go out and publicly rebuke them and make it clear that the average kiteboarders don't accept people in our community behaving this way. These issues happen and the publicity gets out whether you like it or not. There are plenty of examples of where communities should be making an example of offenders, but instead they pretend its not there and everyone suffers for it.

Tell that to the person killed by a windsurfers board at Bondi many moons ago.