Baz said...

So am I right in thinking that there has been no "official" response from AKSA or any of its affiliates, or have I missed something? Makes me wonder why I should renew my membership. Again I think this is a prime subject for AKSA to show leadership or in the least state its position with clarity.
Baz.

See above Baz - it might explain why there has been no official response. It is an involved process (ie takes time) to get a reply on the forum through the official KSA channels.
BUT - for the 2nd time today I am going to take the liberty of expressing my personal take on this issue as a c'tee level member of both WAKSA & AKSA.

Firstly you have to remember that all KSA's are less than 10 yrs old. Thats embryonic in terms of sport representative bodies. There is very little which is hard and fast developed policy at any level - but it is evolving as fast as circumstance and voluntary representation can make it happen.
It is a tough job running these bodies with little or no precedents or protocols to follow. Every step along the way is a new step and it must be taken warily. Without precedents individuals can easily be held to account personally for either action or inaction (sometimes even both at the same time). This leaves lots of room for those who choose to criticise. And while there are cynics and critics out there who are hell bent on jumping on every action (& inaction) and blowing it up till its drum tight the 'personalities' which make up our KSA's are fearful of the possible explosion.
This scenaro creates a self destructive cycle. The fear of criticism (and sometimes even pm'ed messages of threatened consequences) actually hobbles us all into a corner of doing nothing. Which leads to perfectly reasonable posts (like Baz here) seeing apparently more room for more criticism.
So how does it work without always having policy guidelines?
Currently I guess you would have to say that AKSA & the affiliated KSA's have been "reactionary". Without the benefit of a long history of action/response and a developed policy of guidelines they have reacted when needed. Attempting, at the time, to adopt a reasonable stance to achieve the best outcome.
In doing so they have all kicked some mighty fine goals. I cannot recall one incident of threatened restrictions anywhere which has ever resulted in an outcome which has not been significantly moderated in favour of kiters by the intervention of AKSA &/or a KSA.
Let our record stand for now as evidence of our value and of our good & effective means of achieving a positive result when needed.

Being such early days it unrealistic for us to have exhaustive volumes of 'policy' which can guide the elected representatives along a known path of best response. I would suggest that almost every incident of threatened bans which has arisen in our first ten years has evolved around a different set of circumstances eg roads or houses or swimmers or migratory birds or even bigger metal flying objects or dog walkers or ships or fishermen or boats or whatever ........... the list just keeps growing. All of the above, even in my short time of involvement, has featured in different places and been responded to by AKSA &/or KSAs to great effect.
Yes - at times the KSA reps have had to agree to restricted areas &/or seasonal restrictions but in EVERY case (I know of) KSA involvement has won HUGE tracts of ground in kiters favour. Not because of established policy but because people like Mike Walker (to name one of many) have jumped when needed and applied common sense, reasoning and personal skill to achieve great outcomes given the variables involved in that instance.

So in trying to answer your query Baz it is difficult to respond appropriately to what seems a perfectly valid query. Yes we should have policy but its complex. Until we know, & have experienced all of the different scenarios we may be faced with, prematurley firm established policy may be as destructive as it is meant to be positive. When you dont know where the arrows are going to be coming from you need to be able to duck & weave - not have your feet concreted down in policy.
HOWEVER (and this is simply my personal opinion) a basic tenet behind any and all negotiations surrounding bans & restrictions SHOULD be that, as a responsible KSA, we are willing to objectively assess any and every conflict situation arising and develop a response which gives kiting as much freedom and right of access as possible without endangering the rights and priveledges of others. We may be criticised for compromise but compromise is sometimes the only way to not losing the whole shooting match.
I guess (like all youngsters) I am asking (on behalf of all KSA's) for a bit of trust as we grow our respective bodies. Currently, yes we are vulnerable. We are easily criticised at our age/stage for our weaknesses. But unconstructive criticism serves only to cripple us. Given your trust that we are inherently good and have goodwill on our side then we are full of potential. We can flourish & grow into the bodies we all want/need us to become.
It wont happen overnight - but it will happen

........ end of sermon

puppetonastring said...

waveslave said...
So when WAKSA actually talks on the forum....
who is the man behind the club avatar who does the talking ?

A post from 'WAKSA' however must follow a protocol. It must be suggested in draft form by anyone on the c'tee. This person then emails it around the 13 other brains which make up the full c'tee. After replies; which may include suggestions, ammendments, discussion points etc; it leads to an eventual vote of consent.

Thankyou for your interesting reply, Puppet. ^^^
Now I know what makes WAKSA tick.... lots and lots of protocol stuff.
lol.
But I'd suggest that 13 brains is a very unlucky number.
You guys must be so trussed-up with red tape that it must be difficult to free yourself to reach the mouse,
and click on 'Post My New Reply' when all the protocolling has been done and you want to send off an official WAKSA post to the forum.

Ray once begged me to join the WAKSA committee but I had to decline his offer cause WAKSA don't give out free t-shirts when you join up.
It was probably a wise move cause if I had to email my drafts to 13 other dudes before posting....
well, the end result would look nothing like waveslave writing, hey ?
Sorry, but I have my standards to maintain.

There is a simple answer: kiters are more and more being regarded under the same category as sailing boats and as such we are subject to most of the standard sailing (and boating) rules - so it's a "no" sailing between the flags (unless you are outside of the "pedestrian zone" usually 100 meters offshore. Same applies to windsurfers.

I think all kiters as well as AKSA,WAKSA and the other KSAs have a role to play in promoting responsible kiting and promoting/maintaining awareness of the applicable regulations etc so that we dont get banned or limited as a reactionary response by a local council etc.

And then there is nothing to beat just plain common sense and caution.

All KSAs should [IMHO] be working with local councils to agree on safe practice required and to show that the kiting community is taking responsibility for its presence.

Just give the tool a t-shirt so he shuts up

It's just another way for the Government to make more money...

curlyjimbo said...

It's just another way for the Government to make more money...

You reckon?

What does the test cost to take? $40?

To get this to legislation, the Victorian State Government is holding a discussion group on the merits of licenses for "smaller water users" ie. kiters, sailboarders and dinghy sailors.

They are having community consultations. Which cost thousands to hold (lets say 100k). Then on the basis of this and research by policy makers within the government they are tabling a discussion paper (thousands, lets say $100k). Then the proposed legislation has to be tabled, debated and passed. (more thousands lets say another 100k). Then, there has to be public advertising of the new laws within the media to inform the public of the need for people to get licenses. (more thousands probably even more lets say $500k).

Someone needs to sit down and revise the test a bit - probably not much lets say it stays pretty much the same (50k)

So, conservatively, the government has spent $850k, what the hell lets make it a nice round million to get the legislation amended.

At $40 a throw, you need 25000 small water users to just get the money back, not counting for the admin costs associated with getting your license at Vicroads, or loss in tax earnings from you taking time off your job to go and get the test done. Do you reckon there are 25000-30000 small water users in Victoria? Sounds like a good way of raising money to me! <insert sarcastic sneer here>

The only reason this is being discussed is that there is a PERCEPTION that kitesurfers, poleys and dinghy sailors are some sort of safety risk to the wider beach/water using population, and that nothing is being done to mitigate this safety risk. So, lets remove that perception by getting KBV to represent us, and more importantly behave responsibly ourselves! Perhaps this means comprimising a bit, but life is all about comprimising. Victoria is quite lucky as the local councils and Parks Vic have actually taken the steps to give us beach zones on Port Philip Bay.

Robe said...
The list is endless , at this rate , we'll soon need a rubber stamp to have a bowel movement.

Now that would be a sh!t job for a clerk

I'm not sure Robe, but I know someone, or some group is on to it. About three or four weeks ago there was an individual who could have been a Uni student doing speed checks on cyclists with a hand held radar on what is an extermely busy foot path on our coastal strip and recording their speeds as they passed him. It really is only a matter of time before someone gets badly hurt if nothing changes. Some little kid or an elderly person whose last years could be turned in to a living hell with the impact a wreckless cyclist could deliver. I've seen behaviour by young and mature aged cyclists that scares even myself. Imagine trying to license cyclists, the granny who rides around the river for pleasure, the kid who rides to school (in many cases without a helmet) at what age would someone become eligible to obtain one ?

Licences are'nt the way to go. I can remember when on holiday on Strand beach in Cape Town in the early eighties watching an official book two surfers who were wreckless enough to surf amongst swimmers. He went as far as checking the identities they gave him were true on his two way radio, mobiles were'nt around then. That's all we need, solid enforcement and make the fines substantial enough to fund the policing and then some , to drive the point home

westhammer said...

is working for a kite surfing organisation a voluntary job !and does anybody man the office when its windy?

It is voluntary, and there is no office.

Edit: WAKSA is voluntary, and has no office. It has been pointed out to me that other associations may or may not currently have, or have had in the past, paid positions.

I was reading the doco. and under Wakeboarding I found the following:

• sport has a professional component
> is this good or bad? because kitesurfing does too of course

• Wakeboard Victoria is a prominent industry stakeholder
> What does this mean?

Cheers,
Eric

oz surf said...

Robe said..
"So, conservatively, the government has spent $850k, what the hell lets make it a nice round million to get the legislation amended.

At $40 a throw, you need 25000 small water users to just get the money back, not counting for the admin costs associated with getting your license at Vicroads, or loss in tax earnings from you taking time off your job to go and get the test done. Do you reckon there are 25000-30000 small water users in Victoria? Sounds like a good way of raising money to me! <insert sarcastic sneer here>"

Would that then mean the tax payer would have to foot the bill?
How would they like that for something which currently costs nothing.
People should not let the government controll everything in their life.
The love of the ocean should be free

I said this, not Robe. But yes,the tax payer would have to foot the bill essentially, like every other brain fart piece of policy government advisors put through for review. Don't forget, taxes will be also spent on police to enforce this amendment.

If this amendment ever gets so far as being passed, I'm just not going to do the test or pay for the license. If everyone thinks the same way as me and goes to these public forums and says "I'm not willing to go through the hoops, try and stop me doing what I love" watch how fast this gets dropped.

I'm a great believer in civil disobedience where the law is rediculous.

All I can say is....... "I told you so"
either we ie: AKSA, WAKSA, KBV etc.... start licencing and get in with our own set of rules and regulations etc... or the government will do it for us..and their rules will be far more restrictive. this has been flagged many times and each time it is shouted down by people on this forum sayin we dont need licences or regulations........ perhaps you guys may now reconsider.

If we are self regulated we have a much better chance of keeping the government out of our lives.......

i think kite sailors should pay registration on each kite too