Wow guys and girls, so many interesting perspectives and good arguments both sides. For perspective, I ride both strapped and unstrapped to suit conditions.

I think that it should be left to the individual to decide, and much of the decision will be made by the conditions the riders will be competing in. IMHO kitesurfing with straps in small waves (up to shoulder high) is dead easy. The removal of straps in such waves allows more freedom of foot placement critical for trimming whilst on the wave, it also adds a level of difficulty, fun and challenge.

Anything over shoulder high I feel is better with straps so you can, as Niall mentioned, "handle" the fast bottom turns and throw in some critical smacks and airs off the lip. For those that choose to ride in big conditions unstrapped, then they should be rewarded appropriately, but they are gonna have to ride really hard to beat someone pulling the kind of moves only accessible with straps in big conditions.

I don't think anything needs to really change, the rider that is clearly a stand out will win the event, apparantly as it was this year, congrats AJ! But if two riders are ripping and difficult to tell apart in form and style on the waves, and one is strapped and the other is not, then it really is a no brainer isn't it?

Interesting debate, good winds,

how good is this ****%3A%2F%2Fprofile%2Emyspace%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Ffuseaction%3Duser%2Eviewprofile%26friendid%3D70911437

just stirring the pot here,
but if unstrapped is traditional surfing style, then strapped must be progressive.
I have no valuable opinion on the strapped vs unstrapped debate.
i couldn't give a flying F#$% if they were wearing thongs.
what looks best should win, the judges need to be from a background of disciplines to cover a broad range of tastes to ensure this happens.
As impressive as good waveriding is in competition terms, i would rather watch some big powered jumps that use the kite. That's what it's for. Further to that i would rather be a great kiter doing those moves and not give a toss who was judging me.
Good waves should be left to the purists.
blah blah blah

quote:

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Originally posted by paul.j

how good is this ****

%3A%2F%2Fprofile%2Emyspace%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Ffuseaction%3Duser%2Eviewprofile%26friendid%3D70911437

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Great vid!

However the guys busting the big air,with STRAPS just totally RIPSH1T !

The guys riding strapless look really lame! Just Gumbies being pulled along while they attempt to surf !

A regular decent Surfer would sh1t all over them !

The non kiting ,surfing judges must have been p11ssing themselves about it !

Hey guys jb I think your killing it in this thread you've obviously put alot of thought into this matter. did this come from the idea of the more or less event?? Kidding
I rode the comp made the top ten and was stoked, yes i rode strapped and for all those riders who wonder why the fact is this I am not a surfer, my back ground is windsurfing. I went to the comp and had a blast! I did not get one bad comment about riding in straps. In fact i had so many people tell me how well i was riding, even lee kavangh said he didn't want to come up against me in a heat becasue of how well i rode..
Simple fact is this I rode in straps. I can ride with out. Doing a contest where time is critical and you need every wave to count why make things harder and potentially more time wastful by not riding them??
There are different ways to ride,I think the idea of the wave riding is to use the waves power draw a nice bottom turn and hit that critical section, maybe air, break the fins loose or tail slide even a floater. but to do this without just being drawn down the line by the kite..
Above would be wave ridinig, if you were to add power of kite to mix hit the same critical section go bigger into the air do a handle pass, back roll or other and land back on the wave wouldn't this be kitesurfing??
Our sport is new and we will continue to develope and grow in new ways perhaps not even realised yet.
I want to congratulate everyone who took part of the nationals, It was awesome to meet and see such openess and friendly competition. I loved it!!
To the organise's hooray, absolutely awesome.
The judges you'll never keep everyone happy cause not every one can win..
Thank you all look forward to seeing you again next year..

well i disagree, i thought the strappless looked wicked and the dudes on the twinnies doin freestyle looked way out of place.
again, a personal choice.
guess its whether you class a wave comp as surfing the waves or doing freestyle in a wave area instead of a flat area.
JB you were lookin good on that movie, is that the naish fish you were usin?

I hope that ALL other riders do without straps!

I love to bust BIG air near them,because they can't do that !


Must really p1ss them off !

Caution, Yes that is the Naish Fish, my favourite board ever! If you ever have the chance I urge you to try, especially if you are a bigger guy like me! Thanks for the props!

JB

As a windsurfer this argument is not something that I really understand apart from the 'it's more difficult to ride a wave unstrapped' bit. The thing is though, from my perspective, kiting is all about huge air and tricks whilst in possession of this huge air. Why would you remove probably the most spectacular part of kitesurfing from your range of options for the sake of 'purity'? It seems very strange to me.

The way I see it more and more of the freestyle kiting tricks will make their way into the waves, huge aerials of the lip with (insert trick here) etc. That's the way windsurfing has progressed with freestyle appearing more and more in the waves. I don't see kiting being any different...and to achieve that, you need straps.

That's my view from an outsider looking in anyway :)

quote:

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Originally posted by fences

Waveslave,

I wonder, was that you I saw kiting with a surfboard the other day?

Please respond without starting with
'haha'
or
'lol'
Its a serious question.

From your mate,
Phil

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lol.
This is not serious.
This is funny.
Hilarious.
Gaiety.
It's a joke.

Kitesurfing waves in contests has found itself to be suffering from an identity crisis.
The sport has lost its way in the surf.
Castaways in a cruel sea.

Just like the poor, little, loose twin-tip....hiding in the soup.
With fins up and straps down, the twinny bobs up and down in the rip,
like a half-submerged mini-log.

So unlike its big, cool brother, the 6ft strapless shooter.
With its clean deck and sleek looks, the surfboard thrusts its way forward riderless,
tossing and tumbling haphazardly in the churning foam ball.

The shooter knows where it is going.
Fast and directly to the beach.
Straight into the loving arms of a wannabee surfer.
hahaha

People speak about the need to change - somtehing definitley needs to be done about the strapped unstrapped thing etc etc - Im not sure it will make much difference to the degree of satisfaction after events.

Competitions are designed to deliver a ranking of ability. This can be very hard for those who dont do as well as they think they should or could. After these events riders are ranked and labelled according to their performance on the day. This can be very hard for people with large egos to handle. Especially if they came into some bad luck or rode below their ability, or made a bad choice of equipment - like not using straps for example.

Comps are full of luck and only show who was better than who on the day. Who was better at fullfilling an agreed set of criteria. The criteria used in this event was established in August 2005. They have been used in the NSW and QLD state titles for 2 years and the nationals for 2 years.

It has surprised me how many competitors obviously havent read them. I was even more surprised when some of these people criticised them.

I know Aaron Jarman doesnt get on the computers much and so I asked if he wanted me to print them for him. He said - "they havent changed have they? 3 best rides? any gear?" I agrred and he said no I dont want to read that crap then - just turn up and ride your best.

Im sure both of the back to back champions will admit their gear selection helped them enormously in the 06 wave nats. I know my gear selection (especially my straps) helped me go as far as i did this time, and watching and commentating some of the finals, I also know the lack of straps made it harder for some people get 3 better wave scores than their competitors.

I love this degree of interest in the criteria, but I hate the relfection it has on the event and the results. It is up to us make the change - its our sport. lets not have a talk fest (again) And lets not whinge and bitch after the next event.

I'm sure im not the only one who is fed up with people looking for someone to blame when they get knocked out. blaming the judges is the norm - which is where this started - surprising since coxy wants to be a judge. Another favourite is the criteria - lame since its so old. another competitors is largely frowned upon but lots still try it on. The event organiser is one I especially love, since he chose the location and theres never any wind there at that time of year. equipment is classic too...choice of, failure of, lack of, etc etc. Where does the mirror come in when were looking for reasons for failure???

There is no debate - freeriding. do what you like. Competing. do whatever it takes to win.

If the criteria needs changing, lets hear how. Subtracting a point for straps is not only negative but simplistic. adding a point for unstrapped is also simplistic but perhaps a step in the right direction. those who want change, read the criteria, find the holes, suggest a change, put on an event to test your change and see what people think. Action speaks louder than words, especially internet babble! Theres only 8 months till the next QLD / NSW titles. So if you want change by then you need your new criteria tested within 5 months. get moving.

As for the judging of the freestyle nats I dlike some help.... lets start with the original topic of this thread.... does anyone think there shold be wakeboard judges in our freestyle nats judging panel?

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Walker

People speak about the need to change - somtehing definitley needs to be done about the strapped unstrapped
Subtracting a point for straps is not only negative but simplistic. adding a point for unstrapped is also simplistic but perhaps a step in the right direction.

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Complexity in scoring is always a smart tactic for the judging panel....
So they can cover their arses.
It confuses the competitors so much that they are discouraged from appealing,
unless they possess a degree in mathematics.

After viewing a heat, a judge will pick a number between 1 and 10.
He then doubles that number, adds 8 and then divides by 2....and then subtracts the original number.
The resulting score is 4.
It's always 4.
Strapped guys always score 4.
Do the math.

back on topic.

if the wave riding is smooth, rad, explosive, or stylish

the winner will shine through

unless the judges are biased by equipment choices and loyalties.

I hope all the organisers and helpers of last weeks event do not take anything on this forum personally. This event was with out doubt the best ever ran in Aus! And majority of the people posting here (except for the loosers) are not agruing with the result, or the judging. I believe that the judging followed the criteria perfectly and the result was a fantastic representation of the criteria. The discussion here is weather the criteria needs a minor tweek to incorparate the growing interest in unstrapped riding. Nothing here is a negitive or possitive on what has been achieved by the great event put on last week, but by being proactive and discussing any interest now, we can input to AKSA in an ordaly manor with the hope of keeping up with any developmnental progress in the sport (within reason). All this input is great, there are a lot of very valid opinions here, and from riders with a lot of credit. We need to focus on the issue at hand here, and not bitch about unimportant frills. Once again, please no one take any offence to anything said here, hopefully we can keep the discussion neutral of personality, and informative.

Still Neutral on my opinion,

JB

Great Idea Ry, I like the idea of a difficult score, separate to the individual wave score, an over all score for the whole heats performance based soley on the difficulty of the repitour. This way no one is biased because of equipment for their actual ride, no one move is scored higher because the are not strapped. An idea like this may be getting close!

JB