Yeah nice call Ry. Theres a possible solution there but I reckon its opening a can of worms.

for example, twin tips are really hard cos youve only got planing surface and weird foot positions; and so are high aspect kites, so are finless boards.

Give riders an opportunity to disagree with some aspect of an event and after they get knocked out they will! Cynical I know, but certainly an element of truth. Im not saying dont try to make change and improve what weve got. Im saying make criteria very technical and complex and you make more points of "discussion".

the sport evolves fast and make a rule now and the next comp it will seem out of date. I reckon the criteria needs to be as simple as possible.

to me, its important (in the criteria)to differentiate between difficulty of moves (likes Kavs handle passes) and difficulty of moves with difficult gear.

Also, its not 100% plain that strapless is always more difficult. Light winds, and smaller waves, when riding well gets very technical, strapped is definitely harder cos youre feet are out of position alot of the time. Do the poor buggers who compete without a surfboard get extra points for twin tip reos?

Until these issues are adequately overcome I cant see how to support judging criteria bias for varied equipment choice.

perhaps we should have best wave awards and best moves awards to recognise the chargers out there who arent so well recognised by the existing criteria???

A separate comp is a good idea too. I dont think there were 90% riders unstrapped at this event as described above - more like 40%, but still... it doesnt take many peple to make a good comp. Its all about those who turn up anyway. A comp doesnt need to be all bells and whistles. just get together and do it.

At the risk of sounding like a negative cynic, this all reminds me of the wakestyle revolution witnessed at the gero nats where the disgruntled riders put on their own comp afterwards - the "kite below 45 degrees comp". The more core the better! The iron grip of cool! all that crap!

Squirt Squirt. Do whatever sets you off! Make sure you enjoy it!

X polies with 3 straps get 3 points cause they gybe the feet.

3 straps and tacking instead of gybing extra half a point.

quote:

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A vocal,extreme minority,and the way things are going,the strapped riders will not go to future contests because of the descrimination.

What will you be left with? A coupla dozen unstrapped riders patting themselves on the back for being in the "Nationals" !!!

Bring back "King Of The Air" !!!

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I agree
Well put User and sums up where we could end up.

I also say more King of the Air style comps.

More king of the air comps? So that anyone who has had 3 lessons can compete? Nice way to impress the families on the beach I suppose. You're one hardcore dude User

Thats it!!

All this unstrapped sh1t comes from those that CAN'T jump !

Oh and please enlighten us all on what this may be .

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

quote:

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[i]Originally posted by Mike Walker

A separate comp is a good idea too. I dont think there were 90% riders unstrapped at this event as described above - more like 40%, but still... it doesnt take many peple to make a good comp. Its all about those who turn up anyway. A comp doesnt need to be all bells and whistles. just get together and do it.

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Prior to the next contest,
The Industry will determine the judging criteria for wavekiting.
They pay the bills.
They make the rules.
It will be showcased with maximum future profits and maximum growth in mind.

The unstrapped/strapped dilemma will be analysed just like any other corporate predicament.
Fashion trends will be measured.
Projected outcomes will be graphed.
The competitors are just willing cogs in the mighty marketing machine.

It's all part of the evil masterplan.

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Firstly to the organisers volunteers and judges. Please don't give up on being part of the competition seen. We need you. It's my experience from judging world championships, national championships and State championships no matter what you do you are never going to please everybody all you can do is your best.

Now getting onto the competition issue's. To me it is fairly cut and dry.

Number-1 you need a clear cut definition of what the competition is and a definite criteria for judging the event. This is already in place.
Number 2 you need competent, unbiased, experienced judges. This is being achieved as fast as possible.
Number 3 you need clear definitions of categories. This is already in place
Number 4 you need to convey this information to the competitors well in advance of the competition. The competitors then needs to sign a document stating that they are aware of the rules before competing.
At this stage it would be very easy to become intellectual and get into some hefty debate about the above but I think in general terms it pretty much covers what is needed. The only thing left to discuss now is the equipment and to my way of thinking there is really only two options.

Option -1 Allow the competitors to use which ever brand and style of. Kite, harness, bar, lines, and board they choose. Judging should be done even across-the-board with equipment not being taken into account.
Option 2 Putting some sort of ruling on the equipment. Danger !!, the minute you place any sort of restriction on any part of the above equipment, every other part of the equipment is also open to interpretation.

Personally I think because this sport is evolving so quickly option one is the best way to go if one style of Kite, one style of board, one style of harness or bar and lines dominates, that equipment will very quickly become the norm. Once this happens perhaps then it will be time to review some of the rules. Fine tuning of the rules is something that is inevitable anyway not just equipment. But right across the board ..

Bob Dawson

['Yeah i think it does prove kiting has some way to go towards proving itself in solid cross-off real down the line waves.

For my money Felix comes close on a kite for really having the balls to smack it late and make out over the avalanche like no-one else.

Sure it is true that Kiting can in 2 foot cross-on slop in Scarbs make windsurfing look lame, as we crank vertical reos and little airs and slides, but then I spent 2 days kiting Margs recently with 25-30 kts cross off 6 foot conditions and I saw not one truly hooting hollering move from any kiter but dozens from the polers led by an on-form Scott MacKercher and could not help but hoot and holler applause as my kite dragged me by and yet another windsurfer blasting a big aerial from deep behind the section. I felt truly humbled.

The whole strapped vs unstrapped thing is been argued so vehemently at the moment but seems to miss the point.
Are we really kiting waves as best we could?
Is a handle pass off the lip not just a silly little trick if you didn't make the section? Is a grab not just a little style tip you picked up in a skatepark.

You know back in the early days windsurfing freestyle meant jumping through your boom while you did a rail ride......... we might laugh now, but handle passes off the lip seem a bit lame if you can't hit a thick lip late deep and heavy and be prepared to wear the consequences.

Unhooked unstrapped riding in waves of consequence is not a style move but a guarantee of seperation from a 'downed before wave' kite and board

Can kiters actually do these moves and is it just a question of time and someone with balls that are big enough. I believe they can and look forward to seeing contests in waves of consequence which is where pro surfing and windsurfing both have headed.
[I quote myself from the 'winsurfers really can do it' thread that might have some relevance here]

i still luv ua coxy. Everyone needs to lighten up abit.

See u all at caloundra.

angie

The thread keeps going cause idiots keep knocking it up to the top of the list

The discussion about equipment choice leading to advantage or disadvantage in the competitions....

Interesting to note that the equipment used byt the 4 top finalists of the mens opens was as follows:
Kites: 12mGK Trix (4 line hybrid)
12m Naish Torch (5 line c)
?m Slingshot Fuel (4 Line C)
16m Peter Lynn VenomII (4 line twin skin foil)

Boards:
5'0" Strapped epoxy thruster (cyclone)
5'10" Unstrapped Epoxy Twin Fin Fish(Naish)
5'6" Unstrapped Polyester Thruster (Stuey)
5'8" Strapped epoxy Thruster (underground)

Hooked Unhooked - 3 riders were generally hooked in and 1 (2nd place) was usually unhooked on the wave

draw your own conclusions about their equiment choice and the judging bias.

Mike,

I don't think anyone here is complaining about the result, or the judging that was at the 2007 wave nats. More just looking at weather it needs some minor tweeking to comply with some of the movements that the sport seems to be excepting and following to a degree.

I personally do not agree on weighting scores due to equipment preferance (if it at all possible to do), but there does seem to be some discussion about how some of the results are coming out. Let me get it straight that it is not because of unfair judging or anything like that, and maybe there is no problem at all (there is always going to be different opinions on every discission), but it is a good opitunity to get some feed back from riders, and see how people feel about these issues in the interest of bettering the criteria for next time if needed! nothing here should be taken as a personal attack, all the work done in the last nats was unbelievable, by far the best team effort ever! Massive well done to all, but lets not stop now!

JB

Its true people. Coxy really doesn't speak!!! Don't worry mate!

No in all seriousness I thought that the event was one of the best I have been to with both wind and waves!!! When does that ever happen!

In regards to judging wave riding I think that it really should be about how people ride the wave. The people doing strong snappy turns and riding with stlye should be rewarded regardless of equipment. I think that we are getting distracted from what it is supposed to be about. Of course what you consider stylish is completly subjective. For me, I think that the guys riding unhooked and unstrapped have more freedom and can extend their bodies when leaning into turns making them stylish and powerful. That doesn't mean that people with straps can't ride stylsih- look at the local scarbs guys like Mike Bergman! He rips! Its all about what you do with the wave.

I also agree with Carl Bevo- I started kitesurfing because the waves were too crap in summer to surf. The closer it feels to ME like surfing - the better. Im having fun trying to ride waves with no straps. Its not a fashion statement for all of us like some people are suggesting.

I think the only solution to this straped/strapless thing is to judge without any bias given to gear used, just what the rider does on a wave not what he does it with. How do you jugle between straped/unstraped, hooked/unhooked, twintip/surfboard/mutant and what about riding switch, should we take that into account as well?
If someone rode a twintip switch, with no straps, unhooked would they get mega points?

Oh yeh forgot to say thanks to all the organisers and sponsors, it was a great event, who gives a **** about all the other **** isnt it all meant to be about fun? And who didnt have fun? I think a good time was had by all.