cauncy said..

just done a quick search for example kite from uk rrp after conversion and shipping which is free is $ 736 cheaper than rrp here,

i have a mate here that owns a shop and carnt buy a kite for the same price off his distributor,

Getting things cheaper elsewhere is the same for most things in the world at the moment ... lucky for the Aust Car industry we can't buy cars online... anything that has an overseas online presence destroys the local market... Look at the printing industry.........
that fine if everyone is happy to,
buy a harness without trying for size and feel,
have more hassle with warranty (if any)
and do not want to try before they buy......

mouse click away everyone ......

cauncy said..

The arguement shouldnt be about shopping local, surely wed all go to them if we could afford it and not worry about the difference, its the fact that we are paying a lot more for our gear, just done a quick search for example kite from uk rrp after conversion and shipping which is free is $ 736 cheaper than rrp here, imo its one of the main reasons we dont see many young rider here as compared to europe which means the longevity of the supply will suffer if the kids carnt afford a set up, i have a mate here that owns a shop and carnt buy a kite for the same price off his distributor, as what an os customers told him they pay, that isnt good imo, so why before laurie shuts this topic down, do we pay a lot more for our gear here,

^^^ Must be something unpopular or thats already on closeout Cauncy? Buying O/S for stuff that is substantially different like the examples Zarb posted is understandable. I've just checked a couple of dozen kites and prices on the websites mentioned and ones I know of and the differences are minimal, especially when you consider any retailer here will do a deal when approached respectfully. If you come in accusing a retailer of being a rip off and acting arrogant and unpleasant, don't expect a good deal (on anything from any retailer for that matter).
If you don't get along with your local kite dealer, jump on the phone or take a drive to another one, you will find Australian retailers (especially this one!) very willing to do a deal and in many cases we can match prices from overseas, allowing for GST and shipping. All the online stores that I got quotes from charged shipping.
Buying overseas when you can get very similar prices here is just plain un Australian.

Young people can get into kiting here just as easy as any other country, probably even easier. There are thousands of new and used kites on Seabreeze buy and sell, and all the larger shops have plenty of in-store closeouts and trade ins that make entry into the sport more affordable than its ever been. Young people are being smothered in an ever increasing array of easy to learn and easy gratification toys and activities, thats the real cause of the decline in young people taking up sports like ours.

cauncy said..

The arguement shouldnt be about shopping local, surely wed all go to them if we could afford it and not worry about the difference, its the fact that we are paying a lot more for our gear, just done a quick search for example kite from uk rrp after conversion and shipping which is free is $ 736 cheaper than rrp here, imo its one of the main reasons we dont see many young rider here as compared to europe which means the longevity of the supply will suffer if the kids carnt afford a set up, i have a mate here that owns a shop and carnt buy a kite for the same price off his distributor, as what an os customers told him they pay, that isnt good imo, so why before laurie shuts this topic down, do we pay a lot more for our gear here,

I agree totally. If it really is the distributors skrewing the retailers and consequently the buyers (and it sounds like it is) then I do feel for the retailers and the buyers. The Australian retail industry moans about sales plummeting and scratches their heads as if they dont know why. errrr let me see.. I have a choice.... I can pay 1150 or 1550... for the same kite... what should I do?... thats a tough one. If its a marginal difference then the choice to buy local is obvious, but when its $300 + the choice is again obvious. With and Australian dollar at parity or better the gear should be at worst the same price as in the US. Its another application of the notorious 'Australia Tax'. Its almost like 'well Australia is around the other side of the world so you have to expect to pay 40% more for everthing'. In the 70's maybe, but 2013 is a global marketplace whether the retail industry likes it or not. Its also a good point cauncy about younger riders...what teenager wouldn't love to kitesurf but its not even close to being an option because of the ridiculous cost .

nugs said..

I had at look at kite-line prices and they are not that great. I don't see what the fuss is about with kite-line. You can get similar prices from local online kiteshops. And if you ask you will get a better deal then the advertised price anyway. I have never paid the listed price from any local kiteshop. Ask them for a discount especially if you're a regular.

BTW When you import anything over $1,000 the freight company won't deliver it to you until you pay the GST plus on the freight too. And depending on the country you buy it from you are also likely to pay another 5% for import duty.

If you can't afford to buy new then buy last year's model or even the year before. You can pick up good deals on 2nd hand or demo gear from local kiteshops or on seabreeze.

Yeh I to had a quick look at kites I would bother buying. Lol. And yep minimal difference, but then again as I said build a relationship and show some commitment first. Not saying that's what you SHOULD do just what I've done.


Yeh lay off Cauncy, where he lives there is no need for service. There is no benefit for him. And he buys from a good friend, there's a difference there. If I had a good mate who sold kites I'd buy off him to, its called loyalty to ya buddy. Friendship trumps some nationalistic patriotic retailership philosophy me thinks.

As far as teenagers go...I know many in my field of work, if they show an interest I send em to my guy and they get looked after to...plus I organise for them a savings scheme with their part time work. Got a couple on the run as we speak! Tell ya though there's only a few who have the mettle to focus on a long term goal. If you were worried about our future please don't spend time in a classroom, it won't make you feel any better!

Yeh fair enough if your local is a toss pot then I can understand why would you bother. Honestly it is up to each indivual on the way they source their gear I for one won't judge anyone on that matter. I'm lucky I suppose buy of a great business and one I'd call a mate and one that is extremely reasonable with price. That being said if he doesn't have the gear I'm looking for I've got no problems sourcing from somewhere else. If that becomes a problem then he won't get my business anymore simple really.

I have heard over the years though some strange stories about some retailers that make me wonder if they understand business and customer relationships at all! But that goes for any business in any sector their are good and bad.

Great point Eppo,

Preface/disclaimer: I have no connection to any retailer, wholesaler or manufacturer.

If a local community does not support the local retailer (whoever YOU choose), the people who not only sell, but service, teach, sponsor, advocates and engages with newbie entrants and is usually part of the community you kite with. What support would you expect from an overseas company who will only support their own local kiters, if at all.

Buying overseas decreases the availability of product, service, advice and most importantly businesses who support the sport.

I've been reading about who and how the racing is organised and run in NSW and have to hand it to the KP guys, well done.

IMHO

Kamikuza said..

I was thinking about what I posted while driving to the ocean today...

I WOULD support local shops more if they weren't so useless and the price wasn't retardedly inflated. Yes, in Japan, people get big fat cash bonuses biannually that basically means they get paid for 16 months a year. SOME people do anyway... not me. So charging double for the same gear I can buy online is mad.

Also, telling me that if I sell any of my used gear here and expecting me to pay 30% of that back to the shop - are you ****ing kidding me?

To be blunt, balls to every point Independent brought up... service? I pay for it anyway and you can't rely on them to get anything done. Lessons? take up all the beach and get in the way of regulars. Sponsor? only if you're the Asia junior champ. Advocates and engages? Nope - gripes at us to not upset the fishermen who drops nets across the beach - the ONLY beach we can kite from IN THE WHOLE BLOODY LAKE!!!

For Japan, anyway - perhaps other places are different, where it's not a fringe sport with a captive market (don't speak English) and they can charge $250+ for pads 'n' straps.

There's limited availability here as it is - most of the brands have just one guy as a distributer (guess who) and they order in (from overseas!!!) the stuff you buy anyway.


Demo days... we had 2 last year. What a joke... all the kites laid out over the beach so nobody else could set up or launch, then you had to actually go and grovel to get a ride. The other day, I didn't even know it was a demo day until it was over - thought someone just had too many boards and kites. Not to mention, they were all too bloody small...!

/rant :D

Exchange rates...

Bought my used 16m 2010 XB for US$1000 complete... was Y70,000 at the time. Same kit from the shop - Y280,000 :o

Man you gotta slow down on the SAKE

It seems we may all be over generalising here. Some people are demanding we buy local and others are pairing a picture that local retailers are useless and why would you.

But neither are the whole story. if you are lucky like me to find a local retailer who does all the right things and looks after you then it makes sense to buy local. But those who demand we buy local may be denying the fact that some people have had bad experiences price and service wise and hence don't see the point.

Ultimately though we have to all to agree that the ultimate situation is where the price is competitive, the service is good and we do buy local. Surely we can all agree on that. So the moral of the story is find a good local/national person if you can. if you can't then go right ahead. but surely looks around first. I have bought local, national and international. It depends and I see all perspectives have merit given a set of conditions.

But to claim one way must be done is far too simplified.

Kamikuza said..

I was thinking about what I posted while driving to the ocean today...

I WOULD support local shops more if they weren't so useless and the price wasn't retardedly inflated. Yes, in Japan, people get big fat cash bonuses biannually that basically means they get paid for 16 months a year. SOME people do anyway... not me. So charging double for the same gear I can buy online is mad.

Also, telling me that if I sell any of my used gear here and expecting me to pay 30% of that back to the shop - are you ****ing kidding me?

To be blunt, balls to every point Independent brought up... service? I pay for it anyway and you can't rely on them to get anything done. Lessons? take up all the beach and get in the way of regulars. Sponsor? only if you're the Asia junior champ. Advocates and engages? Nope - gripes at us to not upset the fishermen who drops nets across the beach - the ONLY beach we can kite from IN THE WHOLE BLOODY LAKE!!!

For Japan, anyway - perhaps other places are different, where it's not a fringe sport with a captive market (don't speak English) and they can charge $250+ for pads 'n' straps.

There's limited availability here as it is - most of the brands have just one guy as a distributer (guess who) and they order in (from overseas!!!) the stuff you buy anyway.

Demo days... we had 2 last year. What a joke... all the kites laid out over the beach so nobody else could set up or launch, then you had to actually go and grovel to get a ride. The other day, I didn't even know it was a demo day until it was over - thought someone just had too many boards and kites. Not to mention, they were all too bloody small...!

/rant :D

Exchange rates...

Bought my used 16m 2010 XB for US$1000 complete... was Y70,000 at the time. Same kit from the shop - Y280,000 :o

Thank you for your local "Japanese" (by your tag), I sincerely wish you "Good winds and safe kiting".

Honourable "Kamikuza" please let me respect your opinion and you wealth of knowledge and apologise for my ignorance by posting on a .com.au forum and not understanding that I may cause offence to our fellow forum contributors internationally.

Short comment, I would rather sort it out locally with someone than get stonewalled online. Please consider "JOBS IN AUSTRALIA FOR AUSTRALIANS"!!!!

By the way, "...To be blunt, balls to every point Independent brought up... service?...." next time your bladder S**ts' itself or line breaks or you're waiting on your waterproof smart phone for help from your favourite overseas online retailer in a different time zone whilst drifting into a Tsunami, think & breath......

nugs said..


Seriously people. Do you realise who pays for Seabreeze to be so good? This very website that we all rely on!!!

Seabreeze has many sponsors but some of its major sponsors are the local kite shops that you are abandoning while you're busy looking for overseas deals that work out almost the same price anyway.

Thank you Nugs... the point I was hoping to make, better said by you. Your local retailer is probably your kiting buddy from my limited experience and may be instrumental in saving your life one day in one way or another.

I am very concerned that from the "Race Forum" that a "National Championship" cannot be staged, is this official from "KA" or scuttlebutt? perhaps, the Australian Race Community could look to crowd funding at a last resort?

I do not wish to engage in unreasonable dialog on a forum for the sport by the sport, nor start the online .v. offline war. But, most AUS retailers are online, what was the pointless concept of including the "Gerry Harvey" imports argument!!!

its a pretty simple question that still hasnt been answered, i was hoping a retailer or distributor could let us know why we pay so much for our gear, im not trying to put shops out of buisness by asking this, infact if prices arnt put on a level playing field as overseas then i think you local shops gonna struggle, so how can a local shop not buy his gear off a distributor what someone off the street can buy it for? to me it can only mean one thing the distributor is charging his shop too much for his kites making it impossible for him to compete, which means people will buy on the internet meaning your local shops gonna struggle, nugs the cab switchblade you mentioned ive found one complete shipped to your door without discount for $1348 inc all deductions and possible additions and that was list no special deals,kitepower the kite was a best 2013, i had a look at a special you had on a 7mtr edge 2012 for $ 1479 again found one for $1018 , also edge 10 2013 $2129 rrp os $1539 no deals by either,as for being un australian i find it pretty insulting to be charged say 500 more by a local shop than a complete stranger on the internet if you know what i mean, im a pom but im passionate about where i live, i ride ozone kites ,uk company and ride shinn boards uk company, and drink guiness, ok thats irish, so i still have a soft spot for uk companies,as for supporting my local ive bought 2 paddle boards 2 surfboards one wetty, 4 go pros, all in the last 12mths and would buy my kites off him and boards if he stocked them regardless of cost , as for rrp what the ****es the point of that if your gonna match an os price, personally if i went into a shop and they tried to charge me full price to then later drastically reduce it would make me feel like they tried to shaft me, and wouldnt get my buisness, eppo dont worry about people laying it on me dont see too many thumbs down, as for the youngsters issue i know personally of a half a dozen kids here would love to get into the sport and its cost thats the problem, a couple of us have helped them out, personally ive given away 2 kites, and sold 3 kites for $1000 when i got offered $2500 as a trade , also repaired a few at my cost to get them on the water, basically if our prices were inline with os then the wouldnt be an issue

cauncy said..

its a pretty simple question that still hasnt been answered, i was hoping a retailer or distributor could let us know why we pay so much for our gear, im not trying to put shops out of buisness by asking this, infact if prices arnt put on a level playing field as overseas then i think you local shops gonna struggle, so how can a local shop not buy his gear off a distributor what someone off the street can buy it for? to me it can only mean one thing the distributor is charging his shop too much for his kites making it impossible for him to compete, which means people will buy on the internet meaning your local shops gonna struggle, nugs the cab switchblade you mentioned ive found one complete shipped to your door without discount for $1348 inc all deductions and possible additions and that was list no special deals,kitepower the kite was a best 2013, i had a look at a special you had on a 7mtr edge 2012 for $ 1479 again found one for $1018 , also edge 10 2013 $2129 rrp os $1539 no deals by either,as for being un australian i find it pretty insulting to be charged say 500 more by a local shop than a complete stranger on the internet if you know what i mean, im a pom but im passionate about where i live, i ride ozone kites ,uk company and ride shinn boards uk company, and drink guiness, ok thats irish, so i still have a soft spot for uk companies,as for supporting my local ive bought 2 paddle boards 2 surfboards one wetty, 4 go pros, all in the last 12mths and would buy my kites off him and boards if he stocked them regardless of cost , as for rrp what the ****es the point of that if your gonna match an os price, personally if i went into a shop and they tried to charge me full price to then later drastically reduce it would make me feel like they tried to shaft me, and wouldnt get my buisness, eppo dont worry about people laying it on me dont see too many thumbs down, as for the youngsters issue i know personally of a half a dozen kids here would love to get into the sport and its cost thats the problem, a couple of us have helped them out, personally ive given away 2 kites, and sold 3 kites for $1000 when i got offered $2500 as a trade , also repaired a few at my cost to get them on the water, basically if our prices were inline with os then the wouldnt be an issue

Nice rant cauncy! Hope you had a few sherbets, as I have had when I read it ....

Eppo, I reckon you should tackle Israel, Palestine next.... U r a good peace maker. Sometimes :)

cauncy said... basically if our prices were inline with os then the wouldnt be an issue

Problem is mate, the cost of doing business is often more expensive than OS.

I'm certainly not going to delve into someone elses business but i think i have a pretty good idea of the overheads that my 3 local stores near each other face and i'd imagine that the owners arent sitting back drinking beers on their 60ft sunseekers... the margins are higher in a shop simply because they need to stay in business. In tough times its all well and good for customers to say retailers should drop their prices but you think the retailer can ask for cheaper rent, overheads and pay their staff less?

The only real way to get cheaper kites in perth would be if shops went direct to the manufacturer, filled up a container and bought it in themselves. The prices you could save would be huge but then cash flow is an issue because your sitting on 100k worth of one make of kite you've paid upfront for and theres not that many buyers in perth for them.

eppo said...
I agree with Cauncy on prices though. I know for a fact that those prices he mentioned can still run a profit albeit more volume has to be moved. Which them begs the question or the observation at least that the exconmies of scale can be much easily achieved with more rats in the cage in the northern hemisphere.

I think the serious issue we face now is that volume is what australian retailers currently arent moving. For many reasons but 2 major ones are that money is tighter for the majority of us in 2013 and its cheaper to buy online. Thats not the retailers fault nor the bloke off the street who wants to spend his hard earned wisely. Its a viscous cycle that needs to be broken. How and when i have NFI.

I reckon i could guess the margins on a current model kite and no doubt the retailers could sell them for less but given how many kites actually get sold in the stores each day i reckon many couldnt justify it. Imagine if a shop had deep enough pockets to go to someone like ozone and buy enough 2013 17m zephyr complete packages to retail them for around $1400. Sell bucketloads. Next order focus on another size / model for summer and hey presto they'll sell because kiters can afford more. After a season or two upgrading becomes much more viable and 2nd hand gear is much cheaper so younger kids can get into the sport and hey presto soon enough they'll upgrade

Great in concept i guess

Yep agrees. Been the first for a while though. Lets face it we are wind starved lost and homeless at the moment.

i bought my second rrd kite from the us as the local support wasn't good enough for my liking , especially as i had bought my first kit from him . I saved nearly a $1000 on it . When upgrading my kites to ozone i bought locally because a) he did a trade in and b) the prices were not worth the effort to buy online as they were too close .