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Another suggestion for Lightwind Kite, pls…

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Created by Saferider > 9 months ago, 30 Sep 2016
Saferider
23 posts
30 Sep 2016 12:22PM
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Hi,

I already went through some forum threads regarding light wind kites on this site and this was maybe asked before 100 times…

I am a beginner and I completed my basic kite lessons. Since I live in a light wind area, I am looking for a kite for the wind range around 8- 18 knots, suitable for beginners and the most important characteristics for a beginning kitesurfer.

I do own a 2011 Switchblade 12m (which I know is famous for its low end), but struggle to use it below 14 knots, which we rarely get here, especially off-season (little to no wind). Therefore I like to add some kite for lighter winds to my quiver, so I can practise more…

Weight 82kg

Years of experience: 1

Board: Nugget 5.2, 2015 (riding with straps but goal is to ride strapless…)

Riding style: hooked, mowing the lane, little jumps…

Spot: mostly clean flat water, no waves, little chop further outside, not crowded!

Wind: mostly side - onshore

I am intended to buy used and already have some kites on my watching list (Best TS, Ozone Zephyr, Ocean Rodeo Flite, Airush Lithium, Naish Fly, Cabrinha Crossbow LS…), but I struggle to choose especially the right size and also year.

I am also looking into Foil Kites (FS III Speed etc…) but not sure how user-friendly those are.

I understand that what is the perfect kite for one, may not be the perfect kite for another. Testing is not possible where I live neither nearby and your suggestion would be much appreciated. Thank You !

Kite: ?
Size: ?
Year: ?

yendor
NSW, 247 posts
30 Sep 2016 3:55PM
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My pick would be a 13 meter ozone edge 2011 onward.
Only downfall would be relaunch in light wind and slow turning.
Bottom end makes up for it.
I have this kite and will not part with it.
Light bar pressure too. Some would argue that it has almost
the same bottom end as a Zepher.
Hope this helps.

Dl33ta
QLD, 449 posts
30 Sep 2016 6:36PM
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I had a 17m Dyno for a while, went pretty well with the nugget in the smaller chop. Great depower and upwind, was a proper session saver.

ste
WA, 348 posts
30 Sep 2016 6:23PM
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Plus one for edge 13. V8 is a great kite!

Saferider
23 posts
30 Sep 2016 7:11PM
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13 meter ozone edge 2011 onward ... That one was not even on my list so far. Thx. But is 13m really enough ? Where is the low end on this kite?

I post this parallel in another forum. I would be most happy if a 15m or even below works fine in 10knots with the nugget. Even had a look at a 14m Bandit III the other day, but was not sure if it would meet my needs.

“If the wind in your area is not less than 10 but can grow to 18, I'd go for a 15, more funny, faster and better high end. In 10 knots there's no real need for a 17, 15 is enough if you're 80 kgs.”…would you second that ?

Kite: ?
Size: ?
Year: ?

Kite characteristics: Not to deep in the window, beginner friendly with easy relaunch for a 5,2 Nugget and a 82kg rider in 8-18 knots condition on flat water.

It is my goal to end up with lets say 5 kites that meet those characteristics, which I can watch out for a used one in the coming 6 month. This is not something I necessarily need tomorrow, also better it would be...

Thx.


Saferider
23 posts
30 Sep 2016 10:30PM
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Dl33ta said..
I had a 17m Dyno for a while, went pretty well with the nugget in the smaller chop. Great depower and upwind, was a proper session saver.


thx. Would a 17m Dyno suit me as a beginner. Somewhere I heard it is more used to advanced kiters and likes to be always moved. It is a race kite, right? I like the concept of the North Dyno. Another Kite comparable to this one that I can put one my list ?

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 1:26AM
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My current watchlist: (Let me know about your suggestion, what to replace/ change, pls !)

LEIs:
- 2014 / 2nd generation or later 14.5m or 17m Ocean Rodeo Flite ...hard to find used...!
- Airush Vantage 18m LW (2014 ?)...seems to be a sweet LW kite, but hard to find used...!
- North Dyno 17m
- Best TS 17m
- 13 meter ozone edge 2011 onward...will have a look at this one. thx!...(anyone use a 13m ozone edge and a nugget (82kg)? Low end? Is the relaunch in light wind that hard ???)

- 3- 5m Line Extension for my current 12m Switchblade ?!?! Not really an option. I understand that results in a smaller wind window, but larger Powerzone. But would probably not have much effect on launching the kite... Therefore not much of a chance to use the kite in lighter winds sub 14kn... Am I wrong here ?

Foils:
- FS Speed 3 (or higher) 18/19m excellent condition (what low end to expect from a FS Speed 15m on a nugget ?)

Kite characteristics:
Not too deep in the window, beginner friendly with easy relaunch for a Directional Board (5,2 Nugget) and a 82kg rider from 8-10 knots on flat water.

Throw in some more kites, pls...I let this settle from my side for a couple days and than come back and see what came up here. Thanks so far for all the suggestions and advise (even now I am more confused than before regarding my buying decision). And also thanks in advance for the upcoming suggestions. Have a nice weekend and go riding !

Fly on da wall
WA, 481 posts
1 Oct 2016 9:15AM
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You have left out the Blade Fat Lady and Slingshot Turbine to name a few...

The Blade is great and if you shop around you'll get a great deal on a new 1,
but also a great kite for light wind kiting is the Slingshot Turbine! But unfortunately not many people who
have them are willing to sell them, being so versatile and user friendly and grunty hangtime weapons..they might not
suit someone who has a lot of lawn too mow..

Try demoing your listed kite's with a light wind board first and then you'll know what is the best option for yourself
in 7-10 knots, and in 12-15ish knots. Some are fast and some are slow. Some are good overpowered and some aren't
and some are good in light winds and some aren't.




Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:17PM
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Thx for the help...

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:18PM
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Fly on da wall said..

Slingshot Turbine!


Size: ?
Year: ?

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:19PM
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Fly on da wall said..

Blade Fat Lady


About the Blade Fat Lady...I heard that this is one of the few kites that can turn decently and sits deeper in the window. Would that be a good characteristic on a directional board in light wind or would some super efficient race Edge type kite suit me better on a Nugget ? Thx for the help...

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:21PM
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ste said..
Ozone Edge 13. V8




I just watched some reviews of the Ozone Edge V8. OOOOhhhh, that is a sweet Kite I guess. I would probably not go above 15m on this one. Also not possible to find a used one. Heard even the 11m works well below 10kn, but unfortunately not in my weight class.

Would you really recommend "only" the 13m FOR LIGHTWIND!!! in my weight class (82kg on a directional) ?

Another thing is the bar. I also heard Ozone sells a "race bar" with this kite. Anyway what kind of bar is the Ozone Edge work with. Ozone only? Year?

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:25PM
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Dl33ta said..
17m Dyno for a while, went pretty well with the nugget in the smaller chop. Great depower and upwind, was a proper session saver.


North Dyno. I guess that one has similar characteristics to the Ozone Edge. Again not sure if I would go for 17m or a number smaller. 15m ? Also must do my research on what changes the made in recent years. Any suggestion for the year to watch out for a used one ?

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 5:29PM
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Anyone recommend a Foil Kite? How about a FS Speed III or Lotus in 15 or 19m ?

Dl33ta
QLD, 449 posts
1 Oct 2016 7:57PM
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If your going to foil you will no doubt want a much smaller kite but if it's normal kiting as a beginner in light winds you want everything going in your favour. Right amount of cloth in the air, right board and good sea conditions (low swell, low current). If you want to mow the lawn a fat lady or other low aspect kite is not the right choice, an edge or dyno is. If you are going to downwind it, go the low aspect, I had a fat lady and it was great for tearing down wind on light days, way too much grunt for a bigginer to mow the lawn though.

Be realistic about what wind you will be able to have a good session in, an average 12 knots is probably it for your first year.

If it's light wind your after, at your weight I wouldn't muck around, 17m+ and a good light wind board like the Nugget or a monster door if you want to TT. You wont regret it.

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 6:54PM
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First of, thanks for your helpful advise...

Select to expand quote
Dl33ta said..
If your going to foil you will no doubt want a much smaller kite but if it's normal kiting as a beginner in light winds you want everything going in your favour.
Right amount of cloth in the air, right board and good sea conditions (low swell, low current).
If I understand correct, you suggest to stick to LEIs as a beginner, correct? (With foil I was asking about the kite, like FS Speed, not a "Foil Board"!)

Select to expand quote
Dl33ta said..If you want to mow the lawn a fat lady or other low aspect kite is not the right choice, an edge or dyno is. If you are going to downwind it, go the low aspect, I had a fat lady and it was great for tearing down wind on light days, way too much grunt for a bigginer to mow the lawn though

Sorry, but I not completely understand. But this is a very important part for me to understand. May I ask you to eleborate the two differences more detailed, between low aspect (fat lady) vs Edge Type Kite, regarding the conditions I like to use the kite in. (low wind around 10kn on a Nugget 5,2 with 82kg).

All I like to do is cruising around. Upwind/Downwind on the Directional Board. Little Jumps here and there. No tricks at all. Riding strapless soon...And all with a big "Fun Factor". (Maybe LW Kiteboarding is boring? Do not know yet...)

Select to expand quote
Dl33ta said..Be realistic about what wind you will be able to have a good session in, an average 12 knots is probably it for your first year.

You probably right on this one. The idea is to get more riding time out of a "light wind setup". The conditions here are more or less 20% of the days no wind. 65% 5-12kn. 15% above 12kn. ..mostly flat water, bit more choppy outside, and sadly never "real" waves or surf...

Select to expand quote
Dl33ta said..If it's light wind your after, at your weight I wouldn't muck around, 17m+ and a good light wind board like the Nugget or a monster door if you want to TT. You wont regret it.
Ok. The Nugget I already have. Now your suggestion is to go 17m+, for a LEI, correct ?

Saferider
23 posts
1 Oct 2016 10:01PM
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My current watchlist: (Let me know about your suggestion, what to replace/ change, pls !)

Kite characteristics: Beginner friendly with easy relaunch for a 5,2 Nugget and a 82kg rider in around 10!-18 knots condition on flat water. "Easy" to self launch/ land!

LEIs:
- Core XR3LW or Core XR2 LW 15/17m
- Ozone Edge 15m
- Ocean Rodeo Flite (2014 / 2nd generation or later) 14.5m/17m
- North Dyno 15/17m
- Cabrinha Velocity 16/18m
- Cabrinha Crossbow LW (2013) 15m/18m
- Airush Vantage 18m LW / Airush VXR 13
- ASV XR 17,5 Race (2013)
- Blade Fat Lady 17m (Low Aspect Kite)


Foils:
- FS Speed III, Lotus, V 15/18m


Still a bit confused if a High Aspect LEI Kite would suit me better in Light wind vs. a Low Aspect ON A DIRECTIONAL (Nugget)!

yendor
NSW, 247 posts
2 Oct 2016 6:09AM
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Also had the ozone edge 15 but went back to the 13.
If you want to kite in less than 10 knots the airush sector is the way to go.
The ozone edge will fly on any bar with equal length and a single front line safety.
My best set up after 10 years for light wind is
Ozone edge13 2012
Airush sector 52
Am going upwind in 9 knots
Am 80kg
Any less wind you may need a proper race board.

Saferider
23 posts
2 Oct 2016 11:04AM
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Thx yendor. Useful stuff...!!


....
I added the "Turbine" to my list...

My current watchlist: (...now I will try to narrow down the list...)

LEIs:
- Core XR3LW or Core XR2 LW 15/17m
- Ozone Edge 15m
- Ozone Zephyr 2015 17qm
- Ocean Rodeo Flite (2014 / 2nd generation or later) 14.5m/17m
- North Dyno 15/17m
- Cabrinha Velocity 16/18m
- Cabrinha Crossbow LW (2013) 15m/18m
- Cabrinha Contra 15m LW (2015/2016)
- Airush Vantage 18m LW / Airush VXR 13
- ASV XR 17,5 Race (2013)
- Slingshot Turbine 15m
- Blade Fat Lady 17m (Low Aspect Kite)

Foils:
- FS Speed III, Lotus, V 15/18m


Please let me know which would be your "TOP 3" in ranking order.

(Pls keep in mind the kite characteristics I am looking for: Beginner friendly with easy relaunch for a 5,2 Nugget and a 82kg rider in around 10!-18 knots condition on flat water + I add the term "good fun factor" to those characteristics...)

jamesperth
WA, 474 posts
2 Oct 2016 12:29PM
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Saferider said..
Anyone recommend a Foil Kite? How about a FS Speed III or Lotus in 15 or 19m ?





hell yes - in fact i'd of so far as to say you are mad not to consider a foil kite - the conditions you describe (beginner friendly, light wind area, target wind range 10-18 knots, easy relaunch) are precisely the set of conditions where foil kites excel.

I am a Flysurfer dealer, so 1. am biased in my views clearly but in our range it is the Speed series that i would recommend.

The higher aspect Sonic race kites do have more performance, but at the expense of ease of use (relaunch primarily) which for a rider new to foils, could & would be frustrating. The current Speed 5 is a big step up in performance from the Speed 4 Lotus, it shares more DNA with the Sonic but retains the user friendly features of the long running Speed series. Speed 3's were a huge improvement over the 2nd gen, but i'd think they are getting a little long on the tooth now and you may find the fabric has become too porous and won't hold pressure properly (there are lots of threads about recoating kites if you start looking)

In terms of size, for riding on TT, i would say go as big as you can afford. Im slightly heavier than you @ 90 kgs, and with a 138cm TT can happily ride the 21 in 18-20 knots. (Self landing is a little tricky), So don't be afraid of the size - remember there are 3 ways foil kites achieves its maximum depower: Reducing the angle of attack, profile change and reducing the projected area. This leads to a huge wind range. My favourite size is the 15m - i find this gives me the best compromise between turning speed and power. Flysurfer state the recommended wind range for the Speed 5 15m is 8-22 knots for a 75kg rider - see table here : flysurfer.com/project/speed5/ & scroll dow to the bottom

Relaunch technique requires learning some new techniques compared to LEI'S, and ignore the outdated videos on youtube. The new generation of free ride kites are less prone to collapsing & twisting and turning into a soggy mess than the old ones. If it crashes nose down, simply reverse it off the water trailing edge first. If it lands nose up, then a tug on the front lines will usually be enough to launch it. if it twists, then you gently work the lines to allow the kite to catch the wind and sort itself out. My success with untwisting bowties Speed 4's and 5's is pretty much 100%, and honestly,about 50% with race kites like the sonic. My sonics love to bowtie given half a chance & Ive had plenty of swims with them. As a last resort you can always swim up to the kite in the water and untangle the canopy that way.

Also, if you crash it in breaking waves (which I've done a bunch of times), they tend to float on top of the whitewater and don't get smashed to bits as much as you'd expect.

And finally, who honestly wants to pump a large LEI - I'm knackered after pumping a 12m & the thought of pumping a 17-18m Lei by hand ... no way !. Convenience is really important to me - You'll find with your foils you can launch & be riding in the same time it takes your buddy to lay out his lines and pump his kite - 2-3 minutes tops.

If you are determined to go LEI, then you may with to consider our Boost 2 18m LEI, which is optimised for free ride and boosting in 7-23knots (for the same 75kg rider). The weight of a Boost 2 18 is 4.5 kg, versus the Speed 5 18 which weighs a kilo less @ 3.5kg . At the bottom end of your wind range, weight makes a big difference to the performance of a kite and ability to remain airborne.

Shoot me an email or PM directly if you want more information.

Happy to help.

James
Specialist Kiteboarding (Perth, WA)

Saferider
23 posts
2 Oct 2016 1:50PM
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jamesperth said..hell yes - ..... in our range it is the Speed series that i would recommend.


Thanks James, for taking all the time to give me this extensive explanation. I had a look at the Boost 2 and even see a used one for sale in 12m and 18m atm...

Let me ask you about the Speed. I heard a lot of people very happy with their Speed V. And they are talking about "new generation material improvements, that made the kite even better than before..."

1.) Anyway, what your thoughts about the Speed III DLX series ? I see plenty available here used in either 15, 18/19 or 21m. You know I am about to buy used. Any recommendations what to watch out for when buy used? Will the III DLX series be "fine enough" for my needs or should I watch out for a later series (Lotus, V)

2.) Some argue a foil kite is only good as long as it is new. After some time it will start soaking water etc...Someone argued that in LW conditions wind may drop completely and even if wind picks up afterward it may be hard to relaunch a kite in the open water. Which means you might have to swim back. He argued it may be a lot easier with a pumped up LEIs. How would you argue to those comments.?

3.) Where I live there is no wide beaches/ open fields to launch/land a kite. For my LEI I use a piece of strong wood around 200feet away from the beach in knee deep water to tether launch. Now that is something that seems not be possible with the foils. Assisted Launch is not an option for me. There is simply no-one around... What would you recommend to get the foil up in the air in my situation?

As you see in my watchlist the FS Speed is in there and I know many, many riders worldwide are stoked about that material in LW. Still not sure which way to go...

Thx....!!!

Fly on da wall
WA, 481 posts
2 Oct 2016 4:20PM
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You could go a 11m C kite on a pulley bar and ride a sup! They're on YouTube and having a blast in light wind.. but whatever rock's your boat.

P.s.. please no more ozone threads. Everyone already knows just how unbeatable all of there kites are......#beentoopimpedtowant1ever

Dl33ta
QLD, 449 posts
2 Oct 2016 6:47PM
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Select to expand quote
Saferider said..
First of, thanks for your helpful advise...


Dl33ta said..
If your going to foil you will no doubt want a much smaller kite but if it's normal kiting as a beginner in light winds you want everything going in your favour.
Right amount of cloth in the air, right board and good sea conditions (low swell, low current).

If I understand correct, you suggest to stick to LEIs as a beginner, correct? (With foil I was asking about the kite, like FS Speed, not a "Foil Board"!)


Dl33ta said..If you want to mow the lawn a fat lady or other low aspect kite is not the right choice, an edge or dyno is. If you are going to downwind it, go the low aspect, I had a fat lady and it was great for tearing down wind on light days, way too much grunt for a bigginer to mow the lawn though


Sorry, but I not completely understand. But this is a very important part for me to understand. May I ask you to eleborate the two differences more detailed, between low aspect (fat lady) vs Edge Type Kite, regarding the conditions I like to use the kite in. (low wind around 10kn on a Nugget 5,2 with 82kg).

All I like to do is cruising around. Upwind/Downwind on the Directional Board. Little Jumps here and there. No tricks at all. Riding strapless soon...And all with a big "Fun Factor". (Maybe LW Kiteboarding is boring? Do not know yet...)


Dl33ta said..Be realistic about what wind you will be able to have a good session in, an average 12 knots is probably it for your first year.


You probably right on this one. The idea is to get more riding time out of a "light wind setup". The conditions here are more or less 20% of the days no wind. 65% 5-12kn. 15% above 12kn. ..mostly flat water, bit more choppy outside, and sadly never "real" waves or surf...


Dl33ta said..If it's light wind your after, at your weight I wouldn't muck around, 17m+ and a good light wind board like the Nugget or a monster door if you want to TT. You wont regret it.

Ok. The Nugget I already have. Now your suggestion is to go 17m+, for a LEI, correct ?


No wouldn't pin myself to LEI, if I had the cash I'd get myself a foil LW kite tomorrow.

The main difference is that a kite like the fat lady will go straight away if there is enough wind for it but you'll track downwind fast. With an edge or dyno you need to get momentum and then you can go wherever you like. From what you are saying a high aspect kite or speed would be best, and go big. If you pick a dyno/edge and by the sounds of it speed you will have a massive range At the top end but having a bigger kite strengthens your bottom end.


Dl33ta
QLD, 449 posts
2 Oct 2016 6:48PM
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Good thread btw, I love light wind musings.

Fly on da wall
WA, 481 posts
2 Oct 2016 5:23PM
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To be honest.. unfortunately a 13 edge or any edge actually have a very short lifespan,being a race kite which are now obsolete in racing so there's probably a big surplus of them around as like most kites that are manufactured in bulk.. not made to order. You'd find em cheap and also secondhand foil kites as they are outdated for racing before they are unusable but foils require constant retuning and bridle adjustments and replacement being made of such light race competitve materials so they go cheap too secondhand or even new cause they're outdated once they're released to keep you needing the latest to keep up with the latest... exactly the same as bikes,boats... all racing sports.

jamesperth
WA, 474 posts
2 Oct 2016 5:57PM
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Select to expand quote
Saferider said..



jamesperth said..hell yes - ..... in our range it is the Speed series that i would recommend.





Thanks James, for taking all the time to give me this extensive explanation. I had a look at the Boost 2 and even see a used one for sale in 12m and 18m atm...

Let me ask you about the Speed. I heard a lot of people very happy with their Speed V. And they are talking about "new generation material improvements, that made the kite even better than before..."

1.) Anyway, what your thoughts about the Speed III DLX series ? I see plenty available here used in either 15, 18/19 or 21m. You know I am about to buy used. Any recommendations what to watch out for when buy used? Will the III DLX series be "fine enough" for my needs or should I watch out for a later series (Lotus, V)

2.) Some argue a foil kite is only good as long as it is new. After some time it will start soaking water etc...Someone argued that in LW conditions wind may drop completely and even if wind picks up afterward it may be hard to relaunch a kite in the open water. Which means you might have to swim back. He argued it may be a lot easier with a pumped up LEIs. How would you argue to those comments.?

3.) Where I live there is no wide beaches/ open fields to launch/land a kite. For my LEI I use a piece of strong wood around 200feet away from the beach in knee deep water to tether launch. Now that is something that seems not be possible with the foils. Assisted Launch is not an option for me. There is simply no-one around... What would you recommend to get the foil up in the air in my situation?

As you see in my watchlist the FS Speed is in there and I know many, many riders worldwide are stoked about that material in LW. Still not sure which way to go...

Thx....!!!




Hi Saferider,

Kite age is quite important when it comes to foil kites because internal pressure is what gives the wing its shape. What happens over time is prolonged exposure to UV and other elements starts to break down the integrity of the fabric and it no longer holds air (or pressure) within the kite. If you google about porosity & paraglider (from which our foil kites are closely related) you will find they measure the time in seconds it takes for a 0.25L of air to pass thru the fabric.

I'll copy this next bit straight from paragliding.com as the principal is the same for water foil kites:

"Because the structure of paragliders is formed by pressurization, the porosity of a glider also relates to its pressurization. The behavior of a glider will change as the porosity increases. This change in behavior might be, among other things, glide ratio, speed, resistance to collapses, recovery from collapses, handling in turns, and surging. In addition to the performance being affected, the durability is affected as well. If a glider is more porous, it means the material has degraded and it is weaker than it was when you first bought it. If the material is weaker, it can tear easier. These tears might occur when you are launching or landing near rocks or sticks."

1. So the fundamental design of the speed 3 is good, it was a revolution of sorts in it's day and had quite a long product life (from 2009 - 2014). Performance is great and you'l have lots of fun and years of use with the right one - I only recently sold my S3 21 about 6 months ago - it still flew well, but i had the opportunity to upgrade to a Speed 4. But what Im getting at is that some some of these kites are going on 7+ years old and heavily aged kites are going to not perform at their best, and you'll possibly have a negative experience for the wrong reasons.

Plus consider things like line shrinkage - we know that kite lines shrink over time as they thicken with salt and dust & so on, as much as 20-30cm over a 21m span ... Foil kite bridles are no different, and are quite complex and precisely made, so over the years they will move out of "specification" and the kites will fly poorly. Some of this can be trimmed out by carefully measuring & modifying the bridle back to spec.

In terms of fabric - yes the deluxe is the better both IMHO. As you'd expect weight is super important in light wind kiting, a lighter wing is going to fly earlier and be more responsive to gusts and so on, I'd choose the lighter fabric kite anyway all other things being equal.

So my tip would be not buy the oldest kite you can find (on the basis its the cheapest) but find one with a little use as possible.

2. Swimming with foil kites sucks. In fact , if it's full of water, its almost impossible. I'll give you an example as to what can happen.... you and your buddy are out kiting in 10-12 knots, the sun is setting and the wind is dropping. Soon enough your buddy's 17+m LEI crashes (or falls out of the sky) and won't relaunch. If there is a little current in the same direction as the wind, this situation can happen easily. In the same wind, your foil kite should still fly and relaunch, so you'll still be kiting. (You have a much more efficient, higher aspect wing on the end of your lines). Being higher AR, it generates more apparent wind and you keep kiting in less wind. Invariably, you are the last one out. Eventually, you will drop your kite, and at that point most likely nothing will fly. Now If you can't relaunch your foil (which may be impossible if the wind has totally died, you are in for a swim. Remember your buddy - whilst he can't relaunch either, he has a floating kite than he can use to support himself with. If you let you kite fill with water (this won't happen quickly unless you do it purposely), you have what feels like a heavy, huge wet sleeping bag which is impossible to swim with. it won't sink, but its an anchor that you can only drift with. Your buddy with his LEI is arguably in a safer position than you at this time. The trick is to roll your foil as quick as possible in the water and make a nice, neat package that you can put on your board and swim in. Easier said than done. This situation happens to us often in winter in Perth. Many of us ride hydrofoils now, and these pared with a big foil kite (18m race kite) allow us to get out and kite in well under 10 knots. Once moving, you create enough apparent wind to kite through the lulls and we've all found ourself stuck in the middle of the river with literally no wind at all. By continually looping the kite you can keep it airborne, but getting back to shore can be next to impossible.. Swim time !

So is this a mess ? Potentially if you have no rescue options available. This situation is not he fault of the equipment however, rather an example of the implicit risks in light wind kiting. You'd never put your self in a position intentionally of kiting in offshore breeze that is likely to die out. Not on an LEI or a foil. So you could say a disadvantage of the foil kite is that it will allow you to get your self in a more compromised position, if you are not aware of your surroundings and changing environment. But I don't think you can blame the kite here, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

Pound for pound, i believe a foil kite will give you more days on the water for sure, but you need to be just as mindful and aware as you would on an LEI. 9 times out of 10, if you can relaunch an LEI, you'll easily relaunch your foil kite, plus you've got a greater wind range which means less need to come in a switch up/down.

3. You don't need any more space than enough to lay our your lines. Many of us lay our kites perpendicular to the wind, unwind the bar upwind and "hot launch" the kite from the 12 o clock position. I'm lazy and do this no matter how strong the wind is, because when not inflated, foil kites have very little pull so a self launch like this is very safe and common practice. For landing, you can do the opposite - stall from 12 o'clock thru the wind window and land in the hot launch position directly down wind.At this point I unhook and tie off to an object, then walk up the lines and flag out the canopy by taking one end and walking it upwind. In "fresh/strong" wind this backstage landing is dangerous - an assisted landing is best. Or you can simply pull the safety and let the whole thing flag out. This is safest in strong wind perhaps.

It sounds like at your spot you need to launch from the water ? This is also ok with foil kites. If you partially pre inflate the kite you can then lay it on it's back in the water and let it drift away from you whist you unwind your lines. You can inflate them from the water once you've unwound your lines(or you stand / swim out in the water and leave the kite on the beach).

Here is a guy demonstrating what i think you may need to do - launch from the water :



Here is a guy launching one in the middle of the water, having jumped in from a boat with a packed kite :



Flysurfer have made a bunch of videos showing all the different techniques you'll want to learn. you can find them here see here : www.specialistkiteboarding.com.au/how-tos

Saferider
23 posts
2 Oct 2016 7:38PM
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Fly on da wall said.. You could go a 11m C kite on a pulley bar and ride a sup!




Not my cup of tea... thx.





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jamesperth said......




James the time and support you put in your posting for a newbie is simply incredible. I can not thank you enough for that. Really awesome !!!! Also thanks for the videos linked. Helps a lot. I indeed need to start from the water. To much obstacles close to the beach that scare me of a bit. But yes, have space to lay out the lines…

Btw I still have the HQ Hydra 4.2 that I use as a trainer and also did my water dragging sessions on that kite. Sometimes I had to swim back because that kite soaks up with water in seconds. Water re-launch is also not the easiest on that kite unless you have it blowing 15kn. Not even sure why this kite deserves the name “Hydra”. To be fair I have to say that we also have the 1st Gen. Hydra 3.0 and that is a great fun kite, especially for the kids.

Well, I know that FS uses some better material so soaking up is probably not as fast and kiting on a directional with lots of volume may indeed make it easy to fold up a foil kite and bring it back on the board, in the case the wind drops and relaunch is not possible…Just have to watch out for the sea urchins and not get another 50 needles like on one of my first water dragging sessions

I will take the time to re-read your posts. I have some feeling that a 15m Speed III DLX could be an good option for my needs. Also the FS Speed is one of the kites on my watchlist to find used, easy and in good condition. Do not know why (well, because I have no experience...) but the bigger foils 18- 21 seem very big for me, handling wise, even I know that many like the FS Speed 21 most for the LW days... But I will check some more sources to get a clearer picture about that...

How much low end would I loose on a 15m Speed with a directional board compared to a 18 or 21m in your experience?

Thx !

Samuellae
NSW, 28 posts
2 Oct 2016 11:08PM
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Liquid Force Solo...15.5 or 17.5 are both great for foiling and stay in the air at 5 knots easily. I live inland on a Canadian river at the moment, and its way better than the Ocean Rodeo Flite. Drifts super well for foiling downwind too.
Their water relaunch in very light wind (5-8 knots) can be tricky though if water pools on the canopy due to only having one strut.

Saferider
23 posts
2 Oct 2016 11:49PM
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Samuellae said..Liquid Force Solo...15.5 or 17.5


Will have a look at this kite. Thx. Also narrowed down my watchlist to the 15m range...(Hope I am on the right track...)

Kite characteristics: Beginner friendly with easy relaunch for a 5,2 Nugget and a 82kg rider in around 10!-18 knots condition on flat water.

LEIs:
- Core XR3LW or Core XR2 LW 15
- Slingshot Turbine 15m
- Ozone Edge 15m
- Ozone Zephyr 15qm
- Ocean Rodeo Flite (2014 / 2nd generation or later) 14.5m/17m
- North Dyno 15
- Cabrinha Velocity 16
- Cabrinha Crossbow LW (2013) 15m
- Cabrinha Contra 15m LW (2015/2016)
- Liquid Force Solo 15.5m


Foils:
- FS Speed III, Lotus, V 15m

Samuellae
NSW, 28 posts
3 Oct 2016 4:15AM
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oh sorry i also fell for the foil/not foiling trick.
Yes well i said it was good for drifting- which would apply for surfing too.

kemp90
QLD, 1518 posts
3 Oct 2016 7:02PM
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I rode the best ts 15m last season, and it was a bloody fun kite. Really good for wakestyle. Just avoid 2015 unless they have had vavels replaced.
I haven't tried the fat lady, but I have used the blade bar and it is mind blowing!!!!!! Have a look at ProKite.com.au james at ProKite stocks them.

I think for my light wind kite This season I'll be running the turbine 17m, slingshot just made a 19m turbine too but I think it would be a little pointless for what I'm after.

Or another option is to use a small kite and foil board. You will get out sub 10knots for sure if you have the right skills



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"Another suggestion for Lightwind Kite, pls…" started by Saferider