www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-06/wa-government-standing-by-shark-cull-after-protest/5185802

Just what this debate needs for perspective.. Melbourne armchair greenies

Lol

Greeny? I kinda like clean oceans, National parks and animals. Don't think that makes me a greeny. Just means i'm not an A - hole

^yeah, that was a massive contribution from vicco wasn't it.. It will make the difference for sure.

Like I said .. "armchair"

Funny as

swell said...
Hey salt. There are plenty of ocean users on here who are able to look beyond their own personal interests and fear and stand up for marine life. In particular sharks who, with their ordinary public image (mostly through ignorance and conditioning), targeting from legal and illegal finning and critical importance to healthy oceans ecosystems, are in the most need. Trouble is seabreeze as a forum covers a diverse spectrum of people and from earlier posts I have noticed that those intent on inflaming the issue tend to make themselves heard more than others. Its a real shame as united the ocean using community could be a powerful agent for protection of our oceans. Seabreeze could play a part in that, trouble is any collaboration between those who care tend to gets drowned out. For the record I have surfed in Perth and along the WA coast all my life, I now surf and kite every week as well as occasionally dive. I have an instinctual fear of sharks as has any person with a brain however I don't let that fear decide how I live my life. Rather, I allow it to guide me in steering away from real risks which statistically sharks are no where near. It also helps that I don't expose myself to mainstream media so avoid getting exposed to the hype that can affects you (as Taj Burrow made clear earlier in the week). Thanks for the support from Victoria salt! The critically endangered and vulnerable to extinction great white shark is not just ours, it's the planets and accordingly it concerns each and every person. Keep up the great work mate and I look forward to seeing huge support form your side of the country.

And just where did you get the rating of 'critically endangered' from?

Yes. I regret posting bad language. The statistics speak for themselves.

Poly's want your votes and we buy into their un-scientific knee jerk reactions. Our support would be better served in more critical areas such as domestic violence where death rates are higher. Not mindless killing of all sea creatures ( other animals are killed accidently too) for no gain.

salt said...
Yes. I regret posting bad language. The statistics speak for themselves.

Poly's want your votes and we buy into their un-scientific knee jerk reactions. Our support would be better served in more critical areas such as domestic violence where death rates are higher. Not mindless killing of all sea creatures ( other animals are killed accidently too) for no gain.

Ok I've been quiet on this because I'm still on the fence to a certain extent. However growing quite tired of it all and the BS also being spun by the anti management side. It's essentially the same lines over which are flawed.

To address just 2 of the points above..

Firstly, I wouldn't call this a knee jerk reaction. This issue has been debated locally for years now and the current action is more from public pressure over time than from a state government forced rule. You reckon they like it coming to this? Its why I laugh when the ironic armchair greeny wannabees in Melbourne raise up. You don't know all the facts, never at the coal face and only really talk in "ideals". You guys are becoming famous for it

Secondly, it's not entirely accurate to say there is no science behind the decision to try manage white shark numbers locally. There is plenty of local anecdotal evidence to suggest there is a significant increase in white shark numbers (which include deaths) and they are not endangered at all. Anecdotal evidence is science, and generally how research of this type goes about - by observation. The "scientists" still seem to have no idea about white shark numbers and their behavior, which is pretty lame to be honest. In any other field you'd be fired with such piss poor results after so long. Science is becoming so subjective and biased by personal interests these days, I'm beginning to lose faith in some areas of it.

I personally don't like the idea of killing sharks or any animal but there is the reality that it happens right across the animal kingdom. This is where unfortunately ideals don't quite stack up vs reality. I'm certainly starting to doubt how endangered the white is, and in recent years I'm beginning to understand how flawed, inconsistent and bias the whole animal conservation movement really are.

Best join the debate in the shooting the breeze forum as it's full of palm in the face comments from both sides

salt said..

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-06/wa-government-standing-by-shark-cull-after-protest/5185802

Powerheads????

anecdotal evidence is not science at all.

Data is science, it is the best knowledge we have. Anything is else opinion and not fact.

e.g. There used to be a thing called blood letting. This was before the foundations of quantitative analysis was used, during the period when "anecdotal" evidence was revered.

They bleed people and then people got better. the two were not related, There was actually no correlation between blood letting and getting better. However because of "anecdotal evidence" it went of for centuries. It was even the cause of death for George Washington. It was only until modern science and data it was disproven as a myth.

It is also a myth that a tiny incident of shark deaths require the culling of many. Pick a worthier cause, If you really want to save lives, that is what you should do.

If you are selfish and don't care about animals and want to act like we don't have a responsibility toward all creatures, I can't change your mind.

default said..

salt said...
Yes. I regret posting bad language. The statistics speak for themselves.

Poly's want your votes and we buy into their un-scientific knee jerk reactions. Our support would be better served in more critical areas such as domestic violence where death rates are higher. Not mindless killing of all sea creatures ( other animals are killed accidently too) for no gain.

Ok I've been quiet on this because I'm still on the fence to a certain extent. However growing quite tired of it all and the BS also being spun by the anti management side. It's essentially the same lines over which are flawed.

To address just 2 of the points above..

Firstly, I wouldn't call this a knee jerk reaction. This issue has been debated locally for years now and the current action is more from public pressure over time than from a state government forced rule. You reckon they like it coming to this? Its why I laugh when the ironic armchair greeny wannabees in Melbourne raise up. You don't know all the facts, never at the coal face and only really talk in "ideals". You guys are becoming famous for it

Secondly, it's not entirely accurate to say there is no science behind the decision to try manage white shark numbers locally. There is plenty of local anecdotal evidence to suggest there is a significant increase in white shark numbers (which include deaths) and they are not endangered at all. Anecdotal evidence is science, and generally how research of this type goes about - by observation. The "scientists" still seem to have no idea about white shark numbers and their behavior, which is pretty lame to be honest. In any other field you'd be fired with such piss poor results after so long. Science is becoming so subjective and biased by personal interests these days, I'm beginning to lose faith in some areas of it.

I personally don't like the idea of killing sharks or any animal but there is the reality that it happens right across the animal kingdom. This is where unfortunately ideals don't quite stack up vs reality. I'm certainly starting to doubt how endangered the white is, and in recent years I'm beginning to understand how flawed, inconsistent and bias the whole animal conservation movement really are.

Best join the debate in the shooting the breeze forum as it's full of palm in the face comments from both sides

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

I couldn't agree more

sticking my nose in..as a dive instructor for many years all over aus and nearly every day in.or under the water all know whites are no longer'endangered..at all..especially SA..sth WA etc.yes i **** myself down here sometimes inc surf nowhere else.i think the same technique used by east coast brought in many harmless sharks in the cull.i wish some scientist could do an electromagnetic pulse deterrant like we have on the shark shields when used that go for a few km.like.hiroshima..deterring only them and possibly the odd tiger/bull..maybe that day would.come... they are hungry&down.here the seas can.be so 'fished out' its ridiculous. i heard alot of what is caught goes to waste. But it does add a dramatic' element to the waters of aus and i.like.keeping the kite up..however i dont surf in south w thats how it affects me!..sadly so.obviously others also. Hopefully science will find a way in the next ten years but this cull will make families feel safer for now..and for aue it is sad that totally non dangerous species will be caught along the path tokeep us 'safe' in the ocean from.the grt white. we need mark rutzsan the south african white shark.freediver and similar historic legends to somehow pave the way for the future along with science..i guess..

cost of a kite ..; & one in eight of sharks encountering those arnt affected apparently and still head for the bait..(by which time their eyes are closed and they are heading in(!!?.) etc... but it is funny hillaries/ rotto six out of nine scubapeople wearing massive long dangly things which they dont wear eight hours north..at all(lots of.fiah around smaller sharks alternative food etc..;)
it seems they didnt approved deep sea fishermen culling them
also read the'cost of all of this' would be equivalent of scores of thousands of lendable shields for surf clubs etc and such like
not massive nets catching whales and dolphins like the e coast. plse.....electeomagnetic hiroshimas..in the next ten years please.start studying.that at uni. some guy has designed a solar powered super massive ocean suction cleaner that doesnt suck in fish...he is a genius!

name: boyan slat


a difficult one because whites dont survive in captivity for tests
we just need a bigger range and 'beam' than just "five metres" in areas where recreational scuba(showing people sharks etc) isnt such a big industry(such as south w a ..and surf and kids in the sea is..)

all a complicated situation.they just want to survive.wr have taken.their food source and disrupted the chain

Incidentally Salt, I notice you've got quite the bag of nice fish in your photo gallery. Well done.

CocosLocals said..

Personally I`m happy to hear they are sticking to there guns and going through with the cull.
My whole family have spent most of there life in the water only in the last year have they stopped cause of the shark sightings.
Im sure they wont publish what sharks they catch which would be extremely interesting.

Sorry mate but the 2nd sentence laughable and why the gov. have gone down this road.
Did you not think there were sharks around before ? just because it has been a slow news year every single sighting gets reported you get out of the water, this makes no rational sense at all. If road fatalities go up 20% do you stop driving. I dont mean to ridicule you at all and sorry if that's how it sounds.

I have been in a fortunate position to discuss this with a marine biologist from ECU and fisheries officer and what the gov. are doing has no scientific, "anecdotal" or otherwise evidence for their decision. It is purely IMO pushed by WA Tourism to allay peoples irrational fears of what might happen and will have no effect other than to be seen to be doing something.
The main disappointing fact here is that they will never be able to measure the "effect" of what they are doing because they dont have any concrete evidence other than the sporadic fatalities, to measure it against.

I wouldn't call myself a greenie and to be honest couldnt care less if a few big GWS get taken out, i wont be crying over it, but this really pisses me off that by doing what they are doing we will never know or be able to analyze any, before and after data other than rise/fall in fatal attacks which will tell us nothing. Then they dump the animal out at sea FFS at least let the scientists study it or eat it.

www.washarkattacks.net/shark-attacks.php

Its the whales fault anyway, let pop a few more of them off and problem solved !!
If you read and take some of the info of the above site what will happen will be the opposite of the intention. They will kill a few sharks, the whales will be without one of there only predators, therefore will breed unhindered. The gov. or future gov. will stop killing sharks, they then will have an abundance of whales to chase. Back to square one again, let the cycle begin.

ajh01, your wrong for me, if "i" had the responsibility of the state i would take a measured approach, long term this is not the solution its public relations exercise at best. We can put people in space but we cant scientifically work out how to scare sharks away from our beaches. Its a neanderthal approach, i love the way that we are prepared to discount the opinions of numerous people who have spent their life studying the ocean and take the side of a politician who's only qualification in this debate is....oh he doesn't have one !

I wouldnt have so much of an issue with the approach if they would put the same amount of extra money in to further research, but i haven't heard anything as yet.

Want to get involved? - go here and put your views across with the masses.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/Ocean-LoversLargest-Protest-Against-Shark-Culling/?page=23

I'm really over the whole thing now, have been for years - all media driven sensationalism and BS. Clearly on the "anti" side now there's a bandwagon and some disturbing images to be hunted

Before the management plan the media was going down the "killer sharks!" alarmist street.

So much other sh1t going on around us and no one batters an eyelid.

True reflection of human nature and how media bias drives public perception.