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Dodgers or not

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Created by Donk107 2 months ago, 8 Jun 2019
Craig66
NSW, 1741 posts
10 Jun 2019 6:31PM
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boty said..
I don't like them my moto is a good boat is like a good woman the more you take off them the better they look . If the guy designing the boat had thought a dodger was needed he would have included it in the plans as many ocean racer of the sixties were kommoloo, Margert rintol ,Mercedes to name a few and they work well as they were designed with the wheelhouse projecting back over the cockpit changing the design after the fact means moving winches losing visibility increasing windage reducing ease of movement and generally making a pretty boat ugly ,instead spend the money on better wet weather gear


Post Pic of said woman please

stray
SA, 122 posts
10 Jun 2019 7:01PM
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Ramona said..
A dodger with out handles on the sides is just downright dangerous. It's interesting that boats that have to be reefed at the mast are nearly always the ones that have dodgers fitted. It's like it's not bad enough you have to leave the safety of the cockpit but lets throw in another handicap!


But once you've quickly thrown a reef in at the mast you can snuggle back in behind the dodger on a nice dry cushion.

EC31
NSW, 410 posts
10 Jun 2019 8:13PM
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Dodgers on an East Coast 31 are just ugly. And mine is no different. However, it is mounted on a frame that can be removed easily for week long racing, can be lowered even easier for day racing and has a zippered roll up window so I can get to the clutches in front of the pit on the days we are cruising.

It is also low enough so see over from the wheel, shelters the Admiral beautifully from the elements (including rogue green waves) and keeps the internals dry.

Chris249
259 posts
10 Jun 2019 10:41PM
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Sectorsteve said..
80 knots with a para anchor...
Would a dodger be useful here?


&t=132s


80 knots. Really? That looks nothing like 80 knots in Beaufort scale illustrations. It doesn't look like half that. In one shot for some time a bundle of reefing line or something is hanging from boom limply. The Beaufort scale says that in 48-55 knots, which has much less force due to the fact that force increases by the square of the speed, "foam in great patches is blown in dense white sreaks along the direction of the wind; on the whole, the surface of the sea takes a white appearance; tumbling of the sea becomes heavy and shock-like; visibility affected".

I can remember one Hobart where the Round the World Volvo race pros were quoted in Seahorse magazine as saying that the Hobart was worse than the Round the World, and where a boat very close to us experienced the worse seas they had in over 180,000 miles of sailing including six Fastnet class wins, Cape Horn, Alaska etc. It was never close to 80 knots and looked much worse than that vid.

SunsetSailer
TAS, 17 posts
11 Jun 2019 2:55PM
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Here's an example of weather protection designed into the boat

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2001-van-de-stadt-helena-38/OAG-AD-16524194/?Cr=2

cisco
QLD, 11249 posts
11 Jun 2019 9:09PM
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Dodgers, hard or soft, may look ugly from the outside, but they look damned beatiful from the inside when it is cold and/or wet.

One that folds down for racing or a good day sailing and then unfolds for foul wheather sounds like a good plan to me.

This one suits me well.




And this crew member is quite happy with it.



And from the dock it looks quite tidy.




Easily unmountable enables one to have the a classic profile.





Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
11 Jun 2019 9:38PM
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Craig66 said..

boty said..
I don't like them my moto is a good boat is like a good woman the more you take off them the better they look . If the guy designing the boat had thought a dodger was needed he would have included it in the plans as many ocean racer of the sixties were kommoloo, Margert rintol ,Mercedes to name a few and they work well as they were designed with the wheelhouse projecting back over the cockpit changing the design after the fact means moving winches losing visibility increasing windage reducing ease of movement and generally making a pretty boat ugly ,instead spend the money on better wet weather gear



Post Pic of said woman please


Craig seems to only comment when he needs essential information. Am I right?

MorningBird
NSW, 2194 posts
12 Jun 2019 1:01AM
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cisco said..
Dodgers, hard or soft, may look ugly from the outside, but they look damned beatiful from the inside when it is cold and/or wet.

One that folds down for racing or a good day sailing and then unfolds for foul wheather sounds like a good plan to me.

This one suits me well.




And this crew member is quite happy with it.



And from the dock it looks quite tidy.




Easily unmountable enables one to have the a classic profile.






We three look very young there, at least compared to today.

cisco
QLD, 11249 posts
12 Jun 2019 10:49AM
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Nothing a bit of cut and shut wouldn't fix.

santanasaga
NSW, 92 posts
14 Jun 2019 5:44PM
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Cruising... Hard dodger is worth its weight in gold.

woko
NSW, 487 posts
14 Jun 2019 8:23PM
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santanasaga said..



Cruising... Hard dodger is worth its weight in gold.

I agree, hard Dodgers do all the dodger stuff and you can stand on em too. Looks like the billy lids have found a great hide out, love it ??

Jode5
QLD, 731 posts
14 Jun 2019 8:36PM
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There is one very good reason to have a dodger that no one has mentioned, that is it keeps the wife dry, warm and happy which equates to happy wife happy life.






Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
14 Jun 2019 9:14PM
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I reckon it depends what your doing. Maybe for day sailing or racing with the occasional overnighter in a sheltered bay. A Dodger would indeed be a pain in the arse.

But it I think if you where going to cross oceans on several day passages. A dodger would be a godsend. I

i remember on my old wooden motor boat "Shanty" I had the cabin roof extended to keep the sun of the deck. Which would usually get roasting hot and stinky with all the fish and bait that wasn't in my deck box ( as seen in photo 1). Before the added extension there was a fair bit of spray that came over the wheelhouse as well

I see Jesse Martin, Jon sander's, David dicks, used canvas dodgers. While Jessica Watson used a solid fibreglass one. Both Jon sanders and Jesse Martin has to ditch the canvas dodger though.

I reckon I would go with a canvas dodger because in terrible weather I would rather the dodger, get taken off without half the cabin roof going with it.
Regards,
Mick

Jode5
QLD, 731 posts
14 Jun 2019 11:24PM
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With canvas dodgers it all comes down to design. When I designed my dodger I listed each problem that had to be overcome.
1 Vision had to be perfect.
solution: use polycarbonate Strata Glass and make sure the dodger roof is not in you vision line when in your normal helming position.
2.Strong enough that it can be swung off.
Solution: Build a self supporting 32mm stainless steel frame with 3 roof supports and full length grab rails down each side.
3.Not to be a hindrance in any way when racing the boat.
Solution: Make the frame with no rear supports or straps. Make the sides removable so as to make clear access from the cockpit and not obstruct the use of any winches, sheets or halyards. Yes this can be done with a bit of thought.
4. Head room.
Solution: Stand in the cockpit while the canopy maker is bending the bows and make sure they are above your head. My canopy has 6' head room. (On A 57' boat it doesn't look high, but could look a bit high on a smaller boat)
5. Ability to open the front without having to roll the the clears as rolling scratches the clears.
Solution: make the centre clear hinge up and strap to the roof So as the polycarbonate doesn't touch anything.
6. Stop UV damage to the clears so they stay perfect condition.
Solution: Have a canvas cover made to cover the clears when the boat is not being used which will prolong the life of the clears considerably.
7. Able to fit sail covers:
Solution.: Fit webbing tails to the zippers so the zips can be pulled over the dodger.
8, And most of all, make the dodger look appealing and follow the lines of the boat and not look like a square box stuck on top.
Solution: Find a good marine trimmer the has a good eye for boat lines.

Any body who has sailed on Jo-De 7 will tell you it is definitely not an issue racing with the dodger, it's just a matter of putting a lot of thought into it and don't let the trimmer tell you it can't be done. It's not cheap to have it done properly with my dodger costing over $7,000 but in real life it is huge.

FreeRadical
WA, 837 posts
15 Jun 2019 12:19AM
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Latest addition to our dodger is an insert between the dodger and the Bimini that zips on. No good for sailing as it restricts the vision too much but so good when anchored for weather/sun protection. Never thought a small piece of canvas would make such a difference in enjoying the cockpit area in most weather conditions. Drop the anchor, it's the very next thing to go up.

The other bestest thing with the dodger is the grab rail that it has that goes across the cockpit. By far the most utilised grab rail on the boat.

i think design wise, modern production boats are much more designed with dodgers in mind, I know ours is. I think generally, dodgers look really good on modern boats. It's more older designs that a dodger can look odd.

Jode5
QLD, 731 posts
15 Jun 2019 5:39AM
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FreeRadical said..
Latest addition to our dodger is an insert between the dodger and the Bimini that zips on. No good for sailing as it restricts the vision too much but so good when anchored for weather/sun protection. Never thought a small piece of canvas would make such a difference in enjoying the cockpit area in most weather conditions. Drop the anchor, it's the very next thing to go up.

The other bestest thing with the dodger is the grab rail that it has that goes across the cockpit. By far the most utilised grab rail on the boat.

i think design wise, modern production boats are much more designed with dodgers in mind, I know ours is. I think generally, dodgers look really good on modern boats. It's more older designs that a dodger can look odd.


We have the same, a zip in link sheet between the dodger and Bimini plus we have a set of clear side curtains that encloses the entire cockpit which we can sail with in any weather conditions. It's like having a pilot house. Yes it is harder to sail with and visibility of the Sails is reduced by it's certainly dry and warm when it's cold and raining.

Ramona
NSW, 5117 posts
15 Jun 2019 8:10AM
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There is a spare dodger going to waste off NZ at the moment!

www.stuff.co.nz/national/113216382/air-force-finds-norwegian-sailor-whose-boat-broke-down-on-the-way-to-tahiti

Lazzz
NSW, 453 posts
15 Jun 2019 8:28AM
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Jode5 said..
There is one very good reason to have a dodger that no one has mentioned, that is it keeps the wife dry, warm and happy which equates to happy wife happy life.


Soooooooooooooooooooo true!!

I have a hard dodger on mine, it's not the prettiest thing but it certainly keeps me dry & protected.
I also put a hard bimini on as well which gives me a completely covered area over the cockpit - & behind with the solar panels.

I don't race & never plan to, it is set up for cruising only.

I don't lose any vision & I am at the stage in my life where I don't give a rat's about what anyone else thinks as long as I'm reasonably happy :)







Donk107
TAS, 2236 posts
15 Jun 2019 8:34AM
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I wonder what the failure was and why he wanted to leave the boat because it doesn't look to bad

Regards Don



Ramona
NSW, 5117 posts
15 Jun 2019 8:53AM
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Apparently a mechanical failure!

Donk107
TAS, 2236 posts
15 Jun 2019 9:38AM
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Hi Ramona

Yep i read that and I wondered what sort of mechanical failure would make you decide to leave

It doesn't look like it is sinking, or the keel has fallen off, and the mast is still standing so perhaps it is steering related

It looks like a decent sort of a boat so you would hope it doesn't end up lost

Regards Don

SandS
VIC, 5684 posts
15 Jun 2019 10:10AM
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can we book a ticket with the air force and jump onboard !!! nice boat Bav 42 whats wrong, is he hand pumping the bilge maybe ?

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1756 posts
15 Jun 2019 11:50AM
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SandS said..




can we book a ticket with the air force and jump onboard !!! nice boat Bav 42 whats wrong, is he hand pumping the bilge maybe ?


That is kinda weird.
The rudder is in the boat and appears to be working. The boat is making some way at least
Backstay and forestay are tight.
Boat is floating near/on her lines.
Furlers and headsails look operational.
Main halyard could be jammed or it's just a really ordinary attempt at a reef.
Medium sea and wind state.

Internet armchair opinion: the human got to the end of their tether, not the boat.

How do you get out there.....

Toph
WA, 1429 posts
15 Jun 2019 10:05AM
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shaggybaxter said..

Internet armchair opinion: the human got to the end of their tether, not the boat.

How do you get out there.....


A current work colleague of mine use to be a pilot for Aero-Rescue. He told me once that a good majority of their rescues/searches where for boats that the crew were just fatigued.

BlueMoon
624 posts
15 Jun 2019 2:14PM
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Another armchair opinion: looks like time for a nice cup of tea and a good lay down, however if he's run out of tea....

stray
SA, 122 posts
15 Jun 2019 7:58PM
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Forgot to ease the vang while reefing.

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
16 Jun 2019 1:47PM
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Nice anyone wanna come with me for trip that will take 8 weeks. To grab a dodger of a boat that may or may not have sunk several kilometres to the bottom of the ocean. Craig might be a taker.

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
16 Jun 2019 1:49PM
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BlueMoon said..
Another armchair opinion: looks like time for a nice cup of tea and a good lay down, however if he's run out of tea....


May be why he turned back. A tea emergency could Bring a tough man to his knees.

Ramona
NSW, 5117 posts
20 Jun 2019 8:27AM
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Good article in Aprils edition of "Practical Boat Owner" about the recent Golden Globe race where they cover various lessons learned from the race. The winner Van Den Heede had two canvass dodgers, one blew out in the Southern ocean and the second one was destroyed in the Bay of Biscay just before the finish.



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"Dodgers or not" started by Donk107