How does one get on when crewing, moreso where you are with people with significantly more yachting knowledge?


Experiences (always with men aged in their 40's and 50's), include;


- agreeing to 10 weeks of chasing the cans around Sydney Harbour. Every 2nd week or so, watched two men quickly get into screaming abuse at each other about tactics to race to windward. Often there were no other vessels around.



- watching an owner/skipper of a small racing yacht get agitated about his dementia allowing him to continuously stop conversation mid-sentence, and start yelling about things to do next - he just couldn't 'get the sequence of thoughts to do things right'. This was just motoring from shore and in-between other yachts moored in Rose Bay.



- feeling uncomfortable about hanging around the dock and bar at the CYCA, after asking a 13m vessel being asked to move ahead so we could briefly berth behind. On the third request, they did - 2 metres. This lead to owner/skipper of craft I was on muttering personal abuse loudly about another - his mates held him back.



- watching an owner/skipper become buddies with one young random (who told us he wouldn't be available again, as he was travelling). Seemingly the intense, brief friendship only existed because skipper and back-packer came from the same English district. I wore the skippers ear twice for errors the newby made; racing at the time, I couldn't be bothered responding, in part because of my overall less-than-brilliant seamanship.



- paying many hundreds of dollars (everyone supposedly did) to crew a significant bluewater classic, only to watch skipper suddenly get animated while reading a newspaper ad for a special on Vic Bitter (he took a taxi to a distant hotel and back with $370 of that beer.

At formal race briefing with over 150 present, the owner (not the skipper) got drunk, and let out a shout of expletives about the tedium of the formal, useful lecture.

On day 4, we withdrew from the race, and started the engine. Hours later, we revert back to sails anyway as we did not have enough fuel to reach LHI. Why didn't we just stay in the race? Motoring had been more comfortable, though.

Later in the day, the mysogynists were at their best - directly against the only woman on board, abusing her for not being attractive, let alone daring to offer learned opinions about trimming sails and helming.



- watching a skipper berate his wife for daring to offer him a coffee first, rather than the crew - who 'must always come first!'. This lengthy, frantic lecture happened while setting sail on approach to exiting Sydney Heads, en-route to Melbourne. It was our 3rd or 4th day in a row of trying to leave the harbour - we ran out of fuel, and drifted to Sydney Yacht Squadron for fuel, a day or two prior.
A fracture of a vital sailing part occurred S of Sydney, and we motored back, where we all disembarked.



- crewing a yacht over a month to Hobart. Most pleasant owner on-shore and at anchor was quite tyrannical at sea. Warned me sternly a few times his 40' steel vessel had no insurance.

When anchored in Jervis Bay, he asked me to cycle with a flywheel carried in a backpack to a machinist - so as to get 3/1000th's of an inch taken off this metal part. The machinist stated that it was too little an amount to make any difference - as I guessed he would, but he did oblige.

I showed the owner/skipper many traits of my hand-held GPS. His yacht also had a larger GPS, hard-wired in. Another yachtie told him of a plotter/C-Map he ought have. So he gets one in town - but we weren't leaving until he had the card that displayed Bass Strait. Ordered 5pm Friday, received by mail Tuesday - and meanwhile several other yachts left early with a good weather window on Sunday and Monday morning. We had all the paper charts. We waited many more days for the next weather window to head S. At least I learnt how to spear-fish for 13 days in Twofold Bay.

This emerging tyrant segued and ranted about the power of the Lord. A former minister, he showed me several pics of the church he built in Melbourne - with the house upstairs, and his sports car parked out the front. I dared not let on about my atheism, such was his ignorance and indifference.

Skipper invited himself aboard another vessel for drinks - and promptly got loquacious. He wouldn't leave, and the hosts wife had to shout at him to do so...

I wanted to leave the yacht, but we never berthed to the docks in Eden. I feared him throwing my large rucksack overboard, actually.



- After 5 crew dispersed after one Sydney-Southport yacht race, the young skipper and I sailed short-handed for delivery to Hog's Breath Week. One hour on and one hour off he repeated to me - 'yeah, right!', I thought; it won't happen and who does that anyway?

I did 13 hours alone overnight the first night, and 11.5 on the second night (and loved every moment of the quiet isolation under light winds). No prior consultation, no 'how are you doing?', no word of thanks.

We needed tools and metal parts repaired, so we took taxi's to various industrial addresses. I somehow ended up paying all the fares - without any thanks, ever.

Southport boating stores were sold out of maritime charts, so we went without, and elected to sail over the top of Fraser Island. Day 2 he believed us to be looking back at Fraser Island E coast. According to me, based on time and prior kayak travel of the region, it was the Cooloola Coast.
He went back below decks to sulk about his parents divorce - actually it was the only non-yachting thing he spoke of. A pair of humpbacks moved in close, mimicing each other, but he cared not. Later a dugong swam under the S38 - and he remained totally unmoved - unable and unwilling to acknowledge nor share this special moment.

We needed fuel - I told him it certainly was available at the Town of Seventeen-Seventy. 'Nah - I don't think it will have fuel', was his reply. How would he know? 'They won't.' But what would an expedition sea-kayaker know?

I departed from Gladstone (and how fearful berthing was at dawn, my head near-hallucinating from the need for sleep).
He loved his daytime rock-music.



- being chastened by the skipper for not knowing a yacht won't fit between Cape Pillar and Tasman Island when i asked his reason for sailing to the S of that island. In the restaurant the night before, I had spoken of the thrill when, some years before, I sailed through that gap as part of a tight convoy with other returning race yachts.

Watching the skipper become friends with one other guy only - clearly evidenced as they were the only smokers on board.
Watching the chain-smoking skipper flick cigarette butts overboard all the way from Tasmania's east coast to Sydney Harbour. I didn't dare comment on it due to his aggression, although I am strongly anti-smoking.

The inexperienced back-packer on board tripped with the dolphin torch as he went below decks. This lead to myself and the woman aboard being told we were 'due for a lesson in torch-etiquette' - which he gave then and there on muting a beam of light. She had formerly owned her own yacht, and sailed it numerous times between Europe and Canada while schooling her children on board...

We needed fuel. 'Anyone got any info on Flinders Island?', the skipper asked as it came into view. I told him of Vansittart Shoals, fuel availability at Lady Barron wharf and we may go aground at Killiecrankie due to the deep fin of the Sydney38. Silence - no response at all from him on this sunny afternoon - 'Let's go to Eden'.

Being shouted at, at length for daring to sleep in full goretex suit on a berth assigned to me - only for the skipper to find out it was quite wet from salt water (and probably more condensation) afterwards. We were on four-hour watches; he knew how much effort it is to disrobe and re-dress below decks on a pitching S38.

It became evident that of the 8-man crew on the Sydney-Hobart race, one person alone had been paid - a professional yachtmaster who departed after the race. The skipper I was with, also a Yacht Master, was unpaid - but was paid for the 6-day delivery back to Sydney, and it was suggested by others he was peeved by this.

Yet how was, or is to know one will vent indirectly for days?


... /rant off


My own reflecting here allows me to realise that I could have done things differently. Age and associated maturity now gained would certainly assist. Politely stand your ground - and gather more relevant knowledge.

And maybe that's why I went rock-climbing yesterday and am looking forward to wind-surfing tomorrow.

great read.
yep people are ****. It's not a nice feeling stuck on a boat with a bunch of people you wouldn't normally hang out with.
everythings intensified.
1 or 2 changes in crew can change the whole dynamics 180 degrees for better or worse.

the racing thing can have a quiet 1 for me. I've grown to really not enjoy it at all. I don't care how much experience I'm getting. Racing around buoys listening to trust fund boaties bark isn't my idea of fun.
having said that the crew I've been with have been ok. Much prefer to go out when I want for however long I want with whom I want, and do....what I want. I have a boat to exit the mayhem , find some peace and enjoy some tranquility.

to me , sailing is bliss. It's about freedom, love, being connected, wonderment of nature and when I go offshore I hope I'm attracted to others and vice versa that feel the same. If theres crew then everyone's in the same boat. We must share everything, respect each other and be open.

ive crewed on some boats. Done 40000 NM actually.(Europe and back, Europe to U.S - Bahamas back to Europe. Half that time was with assholes and it was very very hard. The other half was with crew that were like family and it was bloody beautiful.

Yep, some skippers, crews etc can be testing but just like any slice of life youl find good and bad.
I sailed for a long time owning, crewing, cruising, dabbling in racing, I'll get back to it in time when work and study are not the current priorities.
I came across some very, very good skippers, I got put off once in one area by little men on grubby little boats behaving like they were the owners of Shamrock V or Australia II so like yourself just turned my attentions to other pursuits at that time. I've done enough sailing that I don't feel a need to put up with sailing on boats that are rubbish or unsafe or in a bad environment.
I've found some of the main issues stem from impatience and that there is a correlation between the louder the skipper yells and the more bluster he/she carries on with the level of ignorance and lack of confidence that he/she has, most good skippers I've come across don't need to yell they just have a quiet competence, most good boats I've sailed on are almost silent as there is no need to yell when all is under control and people know and understand what they are doing.

That was a scary set of stories... A warning to me for sure. My only experience as crew was with my brother... the calm confident quiet type... the kind of skipper I aspire to be.

I like your outlook Sector Steve

Hey Wollemi
Sounds like you wound up on some bad boats
I can't work out why you stayed on the boats long enough to wind up in these situations I have raced boats for over 30 years and have had my share of bad skippers and great skippers.
My rule is if they seem like a di@khead the first time you race with them they most likely won't get any better so the best course of action is to get off and find a better boat with a more compatible crew.
Your continual bad luck with these guys and I might add your seeming lack of confidence in your own ability means you will always be the victim until you show you really do know what your talking about and stick up for your self. You sound like you have done some miles , your experience and opinion matters.
If you don't like smoking say so and tell them to smoke downwind and at the back of the boat. Tell them to put their ciggy buts in a jar and not throw them over board. I would actually like you to name the skipper that still treats the ocean like their personal trash can. Name and shame him.
I did a hobart many years ago and the skipper on the first night went to throw a whole lot of plastic plates over board, spoons cups and all. I quietly scooped them up and put them into a plastic garbage bag and into the rear storage area. He didn't like it but I told him that throwing plastic sh%t overboard was unacceptable and that i was not impressed. Although he was a crusty old dog he saw that the crew was basically of the same mind and changed his ways. We still laugh about that incident now and he doesn't throw any thing over the side that won't break down.
Sailing is a small world and bad skippers become well known in racing circles either for bad behaviour, cheating or abuse. They generally wind up having to pay professionals to crew for them because the good corinthian sailors won't go near them.
I have skippered a few boats of my own and our last boat was known as the peoples democratic republic, I value my crew and don't ask anything of them that i wouldn't do myself. Many of my best friends are my old racing crews people who would do anything for you because of shared experiences good and bad. I have seen plenty of tough guys lying in their bunks when sh#t happens and then you really know who you can trust and who are the show ponies. The good ones you keep and the bad ones you get rid of quick smart.

In short there are plenty of good racing skippers on all sizes of boats you just have to find the boat you are happy on and stick with that crew, stand up for your convictions and if your skipper is worth his salt or rum then he will listen and take on board what you say. Oh yeah and don't pull 11 hour night watches get the lazy b&stard out of his bunk and on to the deck to do his turn. He will have a lot more respect for you if you do.

Hope you have a better experience next time Good luck
Hugo

alohahugo said..
Hey WollemiSounds like you wound up on some bad boats
I can't work out why you stayed on the boats long enough to wind up in these situations I have raced boats for over 30 years and have had my share of bad skippers and great skippers.
My rule is if they seem like a di@khead the first time you race with them they most likely won't get any better so the best course of action is to get off and find a better boat with a more compatible crew.
Your continual bad luck with these guys and I might add your seeming lack of confidence in your own ability means you will always be the victim until you show you really do know what your talking about and stick up for your self. You sound like you have done some miles , your experience and opinion matters.
If you don't like smoking say so and tell them to smoke downwind and at the back of the boat. Tell them to put their ciggy buts in a jar and not throw them over board. I would actually like you to name the skipper that still treats the ocean like their personal trash can. Name and shame him.
I did a hobart many years ago and the skipper on the first night went to throw a whole lot of plastic plates over board, spoons cups and all. I quietly scooped them up and put them into a plastic garbage bag and into the rear storage area. He didn't like it but I told him that throwing plastic sh%t overboard was unacceptable and that i was not impressed. Although he was a crusty old dog he saw that the crew was basically of the same mind and changed his ways. We still laugh about that incident now and he doesn't throw any thing over the side that won't break down.
Sailing is a small world and bad skippers become well known in racing circles either for bad behaviour, cheating or abuse. They generally wind up having to pay professionals to crew for them because the good corinthian sailors won't go near them.
I have skippered a few boats of my own and our last boat was known as the peoples democratic republic, I value my crew and don't ask anything of them that i wouldn't do myself. Many of my best friends are my old racing crews people who would do anything for you because of shared experiences good and bad. I have seen plenty of tough guys lying in their bunks when sh#t happens and then you really know who you can trust and who are the show ponies. The good ones you keep and the bad ones you get rid of quick smart.
In short there are plenty of good racing skippers on all sizes of boats you just have to find the boat you are happy on and stick with that crew, stand up for your convictions and if your skipper is worth his salt or rum then he will listen and take on board what you say. Oh yeah and don't pull 11 hour night watches get the lazy b&stard out of his bunk and on to the deck to do his turn. He will have a lot more respect for you if you do.
Hope you have a better experience next time Good luckHugo

Great advice there Hugo

SirG, you are the one who is wrong on this issue. It is such a common feature of yacht racing that it needs to be openly acknowledged and publicly challenged.
The arrogance of a significant proportion of this group cause grief to those who sail with them and others on the water. The number of times I have been abused by racing sailors when standing on when that is my obligation would take too long to detail here.
It is time that the behaviour being described in this blog was made unacceptable to all. "What happens on the boat stays on the boat" is weak kneed avoidance.

I'm with Morningbird. Racing should be fun, otherwise why would you do it. When you get abused by an egotistical skipper, or owner, why would you ever put yourself in that situation again?

From what I interpret in Wollemi's rant, it is his attempt to find a good crew to sail with. It seems there have been more than just one boat he's been on, and it could be that there are some that he's had some fun on.

Sure, the roads around Sydney are just as bad, but you never say, "what happens on the road stays on the road" now do you?

Wollemi's rant is exactly why I have my own boat and have only ever joined a race crew on another boat twice. Both times were so unenjoyable that I can't understand why anyone would want to do put themselves through it.

Yacht racing is getting a bit of a bagging here. I am not one for racing myself but I do like to sail fast. I am sure for the number of "bad" racing skippers there is an equal or greater number of "good" racing skippers and crew.

From what he has posted on Seabreeze I am sure poodle and his crew on This Way Up are harmonious and have a ton of fun. Maybe he would like to chime in here, hey poods.

You would suppose that any kind of sailing, be it racing or cruising, is done for the purpose of recreation, enjoyment and fun. If one finds himself on a yacht where the behaviour aboard makes life unpleasant and not fun, the only sensible thing to do is not to go back for seconds.

I crewed on a yacht in Auckland that belonged to a work colleague who I got along well with at work and on a couple of weekend cruises and was invited to join him and three others on a 6 month cruise from Auckland to Tonga, Fiji and back. Within a week he turned into a right rude and nasty Captain Bligh but 5 of us on a 35 footer was too many. I bailed out after about three weeks and was lucky enough to score a crew spot on a racing style 43 footer from Tonga to Fiji and back to Sydney. The other young guy on board also bailed out not long after I did.

My point is that intolerable situations don't just happen on racing yachts. The delivery cruise I did north from Lake Macquarie on Second Wind with MorningBird and HaveFun was extremely pleasant from a social point of view and made the three of us good mates. The sailing was horrible because we only got about 2 hours in during the six day passage.

I am looking forward to sailing with them on their yachts at some point in the future.

The reasons it worked so well for us I believe are, 1. We are each yacht owners. 2. None of us was declared skipper though I as owner and therefore responsible for the others, reserved final authority in matters of safety. 3. We set our ground rules (or should I say water rules) before we left. and 4. We each knew to keep our heads pulled in on personal opinions etc. for the common good of the voyage.

Like I said, no one was declared skipper but we had a sailing master, chief engineer, navigation officer, entertainment officer, purser/victualling officer, chief cook and bottle washer and last but not least a cabin boy.

Understanding what the rules are before the ship leaves the dock is essential. Then there can be no surprises.

Is it just me ? I thought the purpose of the post was to highlight men in their 40's and 50's must be going through the " change" as they are unpredictable ratbags when let loose with people they can boss around,especially when its their money (boat).
Read second sentence of Wollemi's pst

Hi Banana,

The second sentence in Wollemi's post said it was in 'his experience' I think the post was about people ranting etc, etc, etc, not about a particular age group.

From someone who has spent a bit of time on quite a few different boats I found the sort of things Wollemi mentioned came from a much wider range of ages.

I think the only ones I didn't notice this behavior from were from the very young skippers.

There are a lot of bombastic yacht owners/skippers in the racing fraternity but you don't have to sail with them. On the odd occasion I encountered such a person I simply didn't sail on that boat again.

On the really competitive boats I sailed on this sort of thing didn't happen at all simply because the whole crew work as a team. A good skipper knows that positive action gets a positive reaction and negative action gets a negative reaction. Just like every other scenario in life.

The thing is if you have money you worry about loosing it . and money does not make you happy ,it could help but not for me any way .
fancy yacht, a mansion to live in, a Lamborghini and a girlfriend 40 years younger < just more to go wrong and the expense goodness

Yeah, but look at the fun you could have before the problems set in. A bit like growing up.

The hardest part of my growing up was the 1st 40years.

I'm still not sure what I want to be when I grow up Hi five back at you Brizzy

I'm still not sure what I want to be when I grow up Hi five back at you Brizzy