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First crack at designing a SUP

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Created by Kovert > 9 months ago, 16 Sep 2017
Kovert
34 posts
16 Sep 2017 6:01PM
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Hi All,
Long time lurker here, originally for the windsurfing side of things but the last couple of years has seen me firmly in to SUP! I'm also a long term kneelo and have been designing/riding my own boards for 10+ years under the Kovert label and now super keen to have a crack at a SUP now i'm comfortable my paddle skill levels are high enough to start going small and build something to suit my local conditions (South Devon, UK).

I get plenty of swell but there's generally rip/chop/distance etc involved at a lot of my local spots and i'm not in any hurry to be wobbling around up to my waist any time soon. I want to go small but keep enough volume that it will be my 'go to' rather than waiting for those perfect days that never quite happen.

I have two boards drawn up, pretty similar but one with a more 'vanguard' style front end and the other a more pulled in nose (heavily influenced by L41). Dimensions and volumes are similar, rocker numbers is something i've struggled to get my head around but these seem to look about right for the length! I paddled a JP Slate 7'6" recently and was comfortable enough on that so looking in that sort of ball park for size/volume. I've deliberately gone a little longer and a couple more litres to keep the usability as high as possible. They will both be double diamond tails most likely once they have been cut and I get them back to the bay.

I'm 5'10" and currently around 84kg but winter is coming which = 5mm + boots etc to add a few kg's. Surfing 30 years on most craft!

Any feedback on the below shapes appreciated.

Cheers from the UK!




Kami
1276 posts
17 Sep 2017 7:43PM
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Hello Kovert, .thinking you are surfing the South Devon with average wave conditions my thinkings about those shapes are both of these two outlines with the same foils (like I can see on both picture you post). Foils are well balance on looseness and drive options. I reckon to have a look at the "volume distribution curve" to check out if the center of volume is close of the max width of the board. Because needless to have an extra volume if it would not center the volume of the board along the board. BTW don't know if Aku Shape program got this option volume balance.
I would go flatter entry rocker on the Stubby one . About bottom shape that's look belly and Vee from deepness measurement along the bottom stringer so I would go flatter tail rocker on both of these same tails outline..
About board size and volume, I would go thinner to 4" under 29" wide as well as shorter 7'6".
I wrote you to fix your file but finally I can't because I'm designing on S3D, file wouldn't load back under Akushape. sorry.

Here my last SUP design, still searching for the perfect design

Here video about the last file i work on, this is an all-around SUPboard for the winter waves down here my place Biscayne gulf.

Kovert
34 posts
18 Sep 2017 1:24AM
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Thanks Kami! I did email you earlier and just sent you a PM. I am using S3D but only the lite version. Volume distribution looks like this at the mo:
7'10"



7'9"


Thanks for the input, let me know if the files didn't make it through.
Cheers!

sgo
VIC, 61 posts
18 Sep 2017 8:29AM
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I would suggest change the vee to start zero at centre, increase to about 1/2" in front of fins then decrease to zero at the tail.

Kami
1276 posts
18 Sep 2017 3:23PM
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Hello Bryn, Files went trough mail ok. congratulations for your prescription of board design. I didn't have to change much thing on it, i clean what did you draw roughly but the lines you made had surfing acknowledgement even if it is from Kneeboarding . I love the general balance of the board designed on those files you send to me. As well as Kneeboards shown on picture you start designing your SUP from are "wicked" and hips on outline show off all theknowledge and fun you have riding a wave. It was a real pleasure to blend and clean up the rough designs you sent to me.

So here a video of files I fix for you an done what SGO suggests rightly to do on concave at tail about.


L41surf
40 posts
18 Sep 2017 10:10PM
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Hi Kovert!

I think the boards look spot on! Beautiful foil and thickness flow. What does section at tail block look like? Need to make sure you have sufficient V back there to help the wide tail lean over in turns (think angle of attack). I run my V all the way out the tail. Fin cluster position is also critical. I'd move yours back. These wide-tailed boards benefit from fins closer to tail to help control all that surface area under your back foot. I also agree with Kami on tail rocker. My suggestion is to decrease to 2.5". The difference in side view profiles are too subtle to notice from a user's perspective. I'd copy/paste the profile from your 7'10 and use it for both designs.

Keep us updated on progress!

Kirk
Santa Cruz, CA
www.l41surfcraft.com

Kovert
34 posts
19 Sep 2017 12:41AM
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Thanks so much Kami for taking time to have a look at my files and the positive feedback! Reminds me of the kneelo family, sharing info helps progression. Dimensions from KB to SUP are surprisingly proportionate which probably helped a little!

Kirk, thanks so much for the feedback as well never expected that! Your boards have been a great influence in taking up the SUP design challenge. Re V out of the tail, this is something i've done on my kneeboards over the last 4 years or so as we found it gave a much better release off the top and added a sort of 'exhaust' effect off the tail which is also pretty wide at 17" - 18" 1' off. I figured it would apply with the wide tail of a SUP also but with different fin placement and the advantage of a back foot with SUP I wasn't 100% sure.

Screenshot of tail block on the 7'10 below, 1/8" lift at each corner, will be looking at tail rocker this evening for sure.

Fingers crossed I will be getting down to see my friend and his machine on Friday to get whichever I decide to run with cut. Then it's glassing schedules to consider! Thinking 6/4 bottom and then 6/4 deck with 6 patch or 6/6 with 4 patch. Hopefully some carbon tape on the way for stringer and maybe rails.

Seabreeze rules




Kami
1276 posts
19 Sep 2017 7:44AM
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Hello, Up what wee have been saying up here about the wide tail and seeing the photo too of the KB which is a real state of the art,I suggest those modifications on the Wide Tail board as show on video .
You can see on video the complete and fine blending of the vee around the fronts fins into 4 channels running from further up the center of board .
Finally I didn't decrease the rocker... still the top line of the deck is looking straight...
As subtle as it can be speaking about shaping as Kirk said ,the purpose of that subtle vee blending is to help redirecting this wide tail board easily from your back foot and body stance...and bless the use and help of the paddle too!

Kami
1276 posts
19 Sep 2017 6:27PM
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Select to expand quote
Kami said..



Hello, Up what wee have been saying up here about the wide tail and seeing the photo too of the KB which is a real state of the art,I suggest those modifications on the Wide Tail board as show on video .
You can see on video the complete and fine blending of the vee around the fronts fins into 4 channels running from further up the center of board .
Finally I didn't decrease the rocker... still the top line of the deck is looking straight...
As subtle as it can be speaking about shaping as Kirk said ,the purpose of that subtle vee blending is to help redirecting this wide tail board easily from your back foot and body stance...and bless the use and help of the paddle too!



I made a last tun up on the blending of the vee by keeping the belly from the center of the board to the vee entry at tail.




Kami
1276 posts
19 Sep 2017 6:27PM
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Hello Bryn, so this my suggestion called "SPINNING DEVIL"on the subject of yousquare nose version . Instead of the wide tail with straight rail this is an hip outline version like your awesome KB you use to surf. That Spinning devil has been influenced by the SPEEED from Sunova and the Whirling Dervish from Riviera;
Your SPINNING DEVIL should come out in a 7'8" 29.6" 118 litres

Kovert
34 posts
23 Sep 2017 2:20AM
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Got to the exciting stage today!! Stoked, few tweaks to make in shaping bay but general foil/rails/bottom all look good. Fingers crossed will be in the bay next week to finish.

Was lucky enough to see one of Kirk's Simsups in the flesh today! Don't think there's many of those over here. Full hull bottom, finish looked super nice.








Kami
1276 posts
23 Sep 2017 4:00AM
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Is this Marco blank 8' 30" you talk me about, I wonder to find one here in SW of France to do my next board.
You told me you have made some tweaks on file but what is the file did you use? Would be instructive to compare the file and these pictures shown up here once come through the CNC. Anyhow if it's Aku's file I will open it under Shape3D.

Kovert
34 posts
23 Sep 2017 4:35PM
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Hi Kami, I used the wide nose file with the vee pulled forward a bit (probably not enough in hindsight but looks OK!). As I'm used to working on boards around 5'8 I had no idea how the foil etc would look once cut but all looks pretty good. It looks smaller than the volume which hopefully isn't a bad thing! All S3D files just cut on APS machine. Will send you the file no problem although still having issues with S3D unfortunately.

Can already see some bits I would change but hey all part of the learning experience!

Cheers

Kami
1276 posts
23 Sep 2017 5:29PM
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Assuming fails or discovering quality is the learning experience and this is the advantage to build his own board.
But I better spend time to learn Shape3D to make shape tweaks straight on the computer screen.
Like the birthday son gift 5'5" 20" 30 litres I work on screen where I can see the subtle shapes of the bottom and rail of his next board, lucky son :-D






L41surf
40 posts
23 Sep 2017 9:29PM
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Looks good, Kovert! What foam density did you use?

Kovert
34 posts
24 Sep 2017 1:33AM
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Thanks! Appreciated, hopefully it will shape up how it looks in my head. Then there's the 'how will it surf' aspect! Love the journey and you can't beat riding something you've designed yourself AND it works (if?).

Blank is the 1.5lb Marko foam 8'. Wasn't expecting the stringer but not a major issue will just go a little lighter on the glassing and use vector net for a patch to keep weight down.

That looks sweet Kami! Here's my new 'future fish' kneeboard waiting to be glassed, a nod to Steve Lis and the San Diego crew with one eye firmly on Tomo! 5'6" x 22 3/4" x 2 5/8" and about 38 litres.








Kami
1276 posts
24 Sep 2017 4:29AM
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Looking at this KB shape , the 1.5lb Marko foam 8' Blank is in good hand, keep on the good job, waiting for more report.

Kovert
34 posts
9 Nov 2017 3:43AM
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Came home tonight! Feels nice and light even with stringer. All very basic to keep cost and fuss down but came out good! I've been riding an 8'5" Sunova Speeed and this 7'8" looks big next to it so hopefully will be a small wave flyer!
Thanks again to all who helped, will get some decent pics and a ride report as soon as huey allows.
Cheers!





SunnyBouy
265 posts
9 Nov 2017 4:58AM
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Very nice.
Love the step by step methodology, learning as you go.

Do let us know how it surfs, be keen to hear about how it handles your choppy breaks..

Kovert
34 posts
21 Nov 2017 4:17AM
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So, first outing was small thigh clean little runners with the odd pocket. Hopped on and paddled the 100m over to the peak no problem, didn't fall in for the first 40 minutes! Actually felt super stable compared to my Speeed 8'5", really easy to paddle with not much yaw at all and picked up small waves piece of cake. Found a couple of little pockets with enough suck to get some speed off the bottom to the lip and it hooked around super sweet, stoked! All in all I for a first 'base' model i'm very pleased. I think it's going to be my go to for small/slack/mushy stuff and then step up to the speeed 8'5" in the juice seems like a good combo. Not quite sure where that leaves my 10' though! Could definitely have dropped 8/10 litres or so and still been super functional.
















Kovert
34 posts
21 Nov 2017 4:24AM
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my local without chop



supthecreek
1536 posts
21 Nov 2017 5:25AM
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Wow! The board looks great. Excellent workmanship on that!

JEG
VIC, 861 posts
21 Nov 2017 8:41AM
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well done with a nice board and nice wave too.

Kami
1276 posts
21 Nov 2017 6:07AM
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There is only seagulls to surf with, wishing you good waves with your new quiver of SUP and such nice ones they are!

Slab
835 posts
21 Nov 2017 6:11AM
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Interesting thread guys....nice workmanship

SunnyBouy
265 posts
21 Nov 2017 10:45PM
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That's brilliant!

rgmacca
64 posts
24 Nov 2017 4:14AM
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You have done an excellent job.
What do you estimate your cost to be, I'm in uk and noticed a guy on fb doing CNC blanks, "Grey paddleboards"

am i interested in a similar project, never made a board before.

What would you change anger about It?
Cheers.

Kovert
34 posts
24 Nov 2017 4:47AM
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Hi, i'm lucky to have a good friend Luke Young (Luke Young Shapes) who's glassing and finishing is top notch (as are his boards) and I have access to his factory which does help a lot! Marko foam eps blank was around ?145 for the 8' x 33" + CNC cutting + finishing (not had final bill yet!). I reckon all in it will still be about a quarter of the price of a production board. I don't expect it to last as long as a production board but way easier to repair as and when needed and I don't need to be over precious about it just get on and surf it

To be honest, now i've ridden it there's not much I would change right now. It's about 10 litres too big and an inch too wide but as a small wave/choppy day/mush board it works out well! I was concerned the rails needed a little more edge further forward but riding it has put that to bed as well for the minute. I think paying attention to the volume distribution has been absolutely key in how it paddles and stability, definitely worth the time getting that balance right. I'm sure i'll find something once I get to know it a bit better!

Hoping to surf it tomorrow afternoon in a bit more size so will see if feel the same then! Definitely worth a crack, Charlie Grey would definitely be a good port of call his boards look top notch from what i've seen.

Cheers

rgmacca
64 posts
24 Nov 2017 6:14AM
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Thanks for response.

What you have designed is similar to what I would go for.
Im on a 8'6" Hnut, which is great in difficult conditions, I would like a similar style board with a lot thinner rail to engage.
i like a bit of a challenge, but don't what to chuck my money away on a pile of poo.

Be interested on how you progress with it, keep us informed :)

Kovert
34 posts
25 Nov 2017 4:55AM
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Well, one of those sessions that all came together this arvo. Shoulder high, offshore last hour and a half of daylight. Peak to myself with a good hollow take off and bit of a wall followed by a fat section and reform to the inside (not the spot above!). She totally lit up! Really didn't think it would be holding in with the take off being pretty dredgy but went like a rocket. Really do have to surf these things like two boards with the tail width but carves and comes round off the top super tight once got the footwork down to get it up on rail! Left flat it still responded and you could sort of dishpan it round but once up on rail it just came alive.

Favourite find was while trimming from a bit forward through a hollow little section I stepped back to stall and instead seemed to hit the accelerator and pretty much fell off the back as just wasn't expecting that response from the board at all!

So far it's ticking the boxes I set out to achieve in ease of use and fun factor with a few hidden surprises so couldn't be happier.

Rgmacca, if you want a look at the Shape3D file for this one drop me a message

rgmacca
64 posts
26 Nov 2017 6:52AM
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Glad it's working well, nice when it all comes together.

I downloaded the shapes3d lite, trouble Is my tech is sooo old. iPad does not seem to be supported.

Are you all ready thinking of next shape, bet it can get addictive



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"First crack at designing a SUP" started by Kovert