Loyalty

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Bnaccas
Bnaccas
VIC
1722 posts
VIC, 1722 posts
16 Feb 2010 9:53pm
Larrabee said...
I guess it came across the wrong way in the start but I'm not categorising everyone in the same boat. I probably wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't approached me.....It did bug me and by voicing my opinion has started a bit of a avalanche. Didn't mean to get anybody down....


Don't worry Larrabee, nobody is getting down and I think it's good you brought it up. I think if someone starts a "brand" and offers after sales support, marketing, perhaps supports an event or some local riders, or even starts a SUP school then fair enough. But it sounds like the guy you met is in it purely just to cash in.

The shapes are probably just generic shapes from the factory.

Some people think it is easy money and want to cash in. BUT the person with good intentions that starts a brand is still going to have trouble finding retail outlets that are willing to stock them and in the end might NEED to clear his boards off the beach or on ebay just to feed the wife & kids and keep the house. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they have money they can afford to loose.

Larrabee
Larrabee
QLD
11 posts
QLD, 11 posts
16 Feb 2010 9:53pm
Maybe there is some new government rebate on SUP's at the moment that know one else know's of. Insulation grants closed..........SUP grants open!
ockanui
ockanui
VIC
1321 posts
VIC, 1321 posts
16 Feb 2010 10:57pm
You know its tough out there in the free enterprise system, its an ideal world to think that everyone can afford a locally produced name brand, the reality is there are many people out there who cannot and because of that should they be excluded from participating in the sport, how many of us buy and drive imported cars?, I bought a name brand surfboard by a name shaper composite board but it was manufactured in Thailand, the company was obviously bypassing employing Australian labour and costs etc, but it was offering choice, and I had the choice. As far as that bloke in a van goes, who knows his life story, but I know how difficult at times it is to make an adequate income at times, sure there is a localism sentiment, but in effect each time I go surf at some place there is always some comment about the sup I ride and where it should be put, I guess the word is territorialism, but it should be.. tolerance
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
17 Feb 2010 9:25am
ockanui said...

You know its tough out there in the free enterprise system, its an ideal world to think that everyone can afford a locally produced name brand, the reality is there are many people out there who cannot and because of that should they be excluded from participating in the sport, how many of us buy and drive imported cars?, I bought a name brand surfboard by a name shaper composite board but it was manufactured in Thailand, the company was obviously bypassing employing Australian labour and costs etc, but it was offering choice, and I had the choice. As far as that bloke in a van goes, who knows his life story, but I know how difficult at times it is to make an adequate income at times, sure there is a localism sentiment, but in effect each time I go surf at some place there is always some comment about the sup I ride and where it should be put, I guess the word is territorialism, but it should be.. tolerance


I agree with you here, I drive a Toyota Hilux, also made in Thailand and for it's money and category the best car on the road.

I think the point is though not having any problems with boards manufactured overseas rather than locally but the R+D that goes into the specification of the boards. To be able to specify what you want, it needs to be made locally (wherever your location, Hawaii, Gold Coast, California etc) refined, tested, refined, tested and masters sent for reproduction with very strict QC's.

I know factually that certain factories in China in particular will provide you with a catalogue of boards that can be made with reference to their original designer. No royalties payable. These are the unscrupulous types operating on government subsidy for profit. You will find that the big guys deal with factories committed to brand name construction that take pride in making quality boards as a long term business directive.

What people need to consider is this: If you are riding a moulded board it is last years actual R+D designs. In that case you'd hope that the designer was ahead of the curve. Certain companies lead the way, not follow. You know who they are. I dream about a handshaped Dave Parmenter or Blane Chambers.

While it may not be the case for WVM at the demo day supporting people that manufacture in the knock off factories with no time or money spent on design, team rider feedback is diverting money from the development of the sport.

For resale value and performance you are better off with buying a good designed brand name second hand board than a cruddy heavy generic new one if money's an issue.
Larrabee
Larrabee
QLD
11 posts
QLD, 11 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:11am
Yeah, true CMC, but it was never about the Chinese made products in the first place. It was some guy with a no name brand of board, selling out the back of his van. Did invade my privacy and hassle me into why I should be buying his boards. As I said, he basically bagged my own ones while thay sat on the roof of my car. Most of the big label stuff is made over that way and are of great quality that I'm sure everyone agrees with.
And I do also agree with Ockanui with not knowing this guys life story and maybe trying to make ends meet but it seemed to me that this guy had no idea what he was talking about (maybe it was me) and ripping into someone elses shapes. I just think that is an unwritten law with shapers and suppliers. And definately when you are starting out in this sport, price does play a big part.
And as I did mention earlier, there seems to be a lot of guys like this dude doing the same thing up and down the east coast. Nothing wrong with it but maybe a little tact and common sense is needed when trying to push for sales. The other question that was brought up from Jacko, is this legal to do so? Who know's but we all know this issue can go on and on.
Lets pray for surf and get amoungst it!
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:25am
Larrabee said...

Yeah, true CMC, but it was never about the Chinese made products in the first place. It was some guy with a no name brand of board, selling out the back of his van. Did invade my privacy and hassle me into why I should be buying his boards. As I said, he basically bagged my own ones while thay sat on the roof of my car. Most of the big label stuff is made over that way and are of great quality that I'm sure everyone agrees with.
And I do also agree with Ockanui with not knowing this guys life story and maybe trying to make ends meet but it seemed to me that this guy had no idea what he was talking about (maybe it was me) and ripping into someone elses shapes. I just think that is an unwritten law with shapers and suppliers. And definately when you are starting out in this sport, price does play a big part.
And as I did mention earlier, there seems to be a lot of guys like this dude doing the same thing up and down the east coast. Nothing wrong with it but maybe a little tact and common sense is needed when trying to push for sales. The other question that was brought up from Jacko, is this legal to do so? Who know's but we all know this issue can go on and on.
Lets pray for surf and get amoungst it!


I understand about the Chinese thing, I have no problems either, I hope I made that clear in my post. Simple rule: Surfers support surfers who support surfing. Easy!
rollo90
rollo90
QLD
221 posts
QLD, 221 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:31am
at the end of the day it is illegal and wrong to sell anything from the back of a van or carpark.
cvm guy should not cut corners.

sam
paul.j
paul.j
QLD
3381 posts
QLD, 3381 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:49am
Piros is right you can't try and beat all these guys and if you do try you end up forgetting why you are here in the first place.

I thought when i read that Ebay add i was back in indo with the winter special price, i might check back in the morning and see if there is a better dealwith a early moning deal.
rollo90
rollo90
QLD
221 posts
QLD, 221 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:52am
paul.j said...

Piros is right you can't try and beat all these guys and if you do try you end up forgetting why you are here in the first place.

I thought when i read that Ebay add i was back in indo with the winter special price, i might check back in the morning and see if there is a better dealwith a early moning deal.


try get honeymoon deal
fatsurf
fatsurf
QLD
305 posts
QLD, 305 posts
17 Feb 2010 10:53am
paul.j said...

Piros is right you can't try and beat all these guys and if you do try you end up forgetting why you are here in the first place.

I thought when i read that Ebay add i was back in indo with the winter special price, i might check back in the morning and see if there is a better dealwith a early moning deal.


Soory mate thought i better remove it as with the link i was advertisisng for him lol.

And the cost is Major rip of the bigest board he gets costs landed $400 so hes def making a killing if he sells em !
loco4olas
loco4olas
NSW
1525 posts
NSW, 1525 posts
17 Feb 2010 2:40pm
rollo90 said...

at the end of the day it is illegal and wrong to sell anything from the back of a van or carpark.
cvm guy should not cut corners.

sam


Sounds like he's just a minor capitalist doing his thing-kinda' what the West was built on isn't?
AA
AA
NSW
2167 posts
AA AA
NSW, 2167 posts
17 Feb 2010 3:22pm
Larrabee said...

Maybe there is some new government rebate on SUP's at the moment that know one else know's of. Insulation grants closed..........SUP grants open!


GOOD IDEA MATE! Nail an old SUP in your roof cavity and see what comes of it!

Seriously Larrabee it is a real shame that you somehow feel bad about making your post - DONT!

Some of the responses were plain ridiculous when you made a very valid point. The forum is all about differing points of view but some of the responses were out of line, I reckon.

For what ever reason, this guy is cutting corners and trading illegally which ultimately undermines the viability of the local dealers, shapers, schools, shops and ultimately the sport as a whole.

Dont let the knockers get you down! Good post!
lookielookie
lookielookie
QLD
347 posts
QLD, 347 posts
17 Feb 2010 8:26pm
READ THIS BIT FIRST - I support local surf shops and shapers. Always have ,always will. When i need stuff i always go to Greenline or Roar because they are very good at what they do......And they are great blokes as well.-

In saying that, and not standing up for the "GUY" that was in the car park.
Broad Generalizations , no background or relevant history and the blatant Pack Hypocrisy that usuallly goes on, lead me to try and gee up a half decent debate.
Larabee shouldnt feel bad about beeing pissed off buy some doolee in the carpark. I would have been as well. I probably would have taken it to the next level with him..
But does that mean that someone going store to store, event to event offering demos and advise with a trailer on the back of there car, because they havent got a shop front only a wharehouse, be bourdened with the stigma of being a "quick buck merchant" ?????
Thoughts anyone!!!
-Its a Forum after all-

CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
17 Feb 2010 8:57pm
lookielookie said...

READ THIS BIT FIRST - I support local surf shops and shapers. Always have ,always will. When i need stuff i always go to Greenline or Roar because they are very good at what they do......And they are great blokes as well.-

In saying that, and not standing up for the "GUY" that was in the car park.
Broad Generalizations , no background or relevant history and the blatant Pack Hypocrisy that usuallly goes on, lead me to try and gee up a half decent debate.
Larabee shouldnt feel bad about beeing pissed off buy some doolee in the carpark. I would have been as well. I probably would have taken it to the next level with him..
But does that mean that someone going store to store, event to event offering demos and advise with a trailer on the back of there car, because they havent got a shop front only a wharehouse, be bourdened with the stigma of being a "quick buck merchant" ?????
Thoughts anyone!!!
-Its a Forum after all-




Does your wife know you spend your free time trying to wind people up? Hahaha.

Get out of the fridges and get up at Sparrows fart and come surf with us. I have been with SDR, Mr Deep and everyone else you know at you know where. It's so secret! Where have you been?? I miss your scary tattoo.
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
17 Feb 2010 6:57pm
Loyalty, for starters you have to earn it, I stay loyal to the people and business's who offer good old CUSTOMER SERVICE.
There's no other place like the Gold Coast for dodge people wanting to make a fast buck, the coast really is a small country town.Mess up and everyone will hear.So those out for a fast buck ALWAY'S get found out.

Now, as some of you know I am a passionate longboarder who also enjoy's suping.
I was lucky years ago when I walked into a quality store and received fantastic service,a little Lacey like,I have purchased and trade a bucket load of boards searching for THE ONE which I found,the guy's surf with me and know what is best for me.Same in the sup world, two boards in a year and totally STOKED with the people and service on offer, and I will be a repeat customer for sure.

I could pimp the stores I deal with but they don't need plugging.

Loyalty that's what it means to me. mac
Brooko
Brooko
1672 posts
1672 posts
17 Feb 2010 7:08pm
paul.j said...

lookielookie said...

What makes them fly by nighters? And what gives you the right to judge there buisness practices. What if the "guys" interesred in the sport and wants to develop there own brand! Im sure if i had a spare $20 grand i wouldnt be wasting it on the hard flog to try enter in an already saturated market.
Why are are you knocking someone that might be trying to live the dream, only to be pigeon holed because he's not a "windsurfer brand" with multinational investment bucks behind them. he reads the forum. he made the effert to go to a demo day. If youre a retailer or shaper its called competition. Step it up and dont winge. If you dont like the shape dont buy it. The guys are probably living off 2 minute noodles anyway.
Too bad if these "guys" were going to be the next GSI. What would be your thoughts if he morgaged his house and invested in legit advertising?
Way to go tall poppie farmer


What is wrong with what this guy is doing is he is selling of the beach which is illegal as far as i know he pays no insurance he has no over heads which sure he can cut costs. If some one takes money on the beach or in a car park for a product being board or lessons with out council approval it is illegal. I know from the very first day we started selling stuff we had a legit place of business and if you can not factor that in to you cost then maybe you should not bother.

I have run into this guy as well and he wanted to be my partner in importing SUP's but i wouldn't touch him with a 10ft pole.

Jacko


Lmfao sounds like the Indian door to door Insulation salesman !!
NewcastleSUP
NewcastleSUP
NSW
250 posts
NSW, 250 posts
17 Feb 2010 11:45pm
Support the brands that support the lifestyle that way you know your hard earned cash is going back into the sport.
Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
17 Feb 2010 11:58pm
Hey crew, interesting topic! I believe in loyalty to a certain degree but education is the key thing that should be taught in the industry. People should be taught what equipment is best for them so in the future they can make an informed choice. This will also keep the big names loyal to the people that feed them, not taking all of us for granted because they have a brand name and then screwing us over. A good example of this is a well known shoe brand that didn't care less about the clients, it just saw the $$ and the branding they had, unfortunately for them once the buyers realised, they stopped buying the product as much. I guess what i'm getting at is just because someone has a name for themselves in the industry doesn't always mean they will tell you the truth (I've learnt the hard way). The guy in the carpark sounds dodgey I AGREE, but this doesn't mean that every guy or girl selling lessons or SUP boards in a car park as an add on to their business is dodgey, thats like saying the mobile coffee guy that comes to your work or the smoko girl is dodgey too, where would some of you be without them? Educating people and product information is always going to win out in the end. If someone selling something can't answer your questions about the product they have or their not willing to find that information out for you, its simple don't deal with them or both listening to the sales pitch. But don't kick sand in the eyes of the people that maybe trying to support the industry through starting out a small business any way they can some of these guys may have loads of wealthy information. Loyalty shouldn't be abused by brands or the people that sell them either. Take control of what you buy by researching it first and then make a true informed decision.
AA
AA
NSW
2167 posts
AA AA
NSW, 2167 posts
18 Feb 2010 9:56am
Adapt said...

Hey crew, interesting topic! I believe in loyalty to a certain degree but education is the key thing that should be taught in the industry. People should be taught what equipment is best for them so in the future they can make an informed choice. This will also keep the big names loyal to the people that feed them, not taking all of us for granted because they have a brand name and then screwing us over. A good example of this is a well known shoe brand that didn't care less about the clients, it just saw the $$ and the branding they had, unfortunately for them once the buyers realised, they stopped buying the product as much. I guess what i'm getting at is just because someone has a name for themselves in the industry doesn't always mean they will tell you the truth (I've learnt the hard way). The guy in the carpark sounds dodgey I AGREE, but this doesn't mean that every guy or girl selling lessons or SUP boards in a car park as an add on to their business is dodgey, thats like saying the mobile coffee guy that comes to your work or the smoko girl is dodgey too, where would some of you be without them? Educating people and product information is always going to win out in the end. If someone selling something can't answer your questions about the product they have or their not willing to find that information out for you, its simple don't deal with them or both listening to the sales pitch. But don't kick sand in the eyes of the people that maybe trying to support the industry through starting out a small business any way they can some of these guys may have loads of wealthy information. Loyalty shouldn't be abused by brands or the people that sell them either. Take control of what you buy by researching it first and then make a true informed decision.


Wise words indeed, Adapt! Nice first post, too!

Just one thing got me thinking....you cannot compare this guy to your mobile coffee van vendor, who has to jump through endless council hoops and a 20 million dollar 3rd party insurance policy (which you cannot get unless you have every permit and authority involved sanctioning what you are doing) before he can even think of outlaying for a van conversion, plus the van....

If you actually look into what it takes to legally set up shop 'anywhere', most people would not touch it with a 10' barge pole. As for SUP schools that involve councils, Waterways, accreditation, big rents and council fees - don't get me started!

I think the point being made was that it was his advice, on top of his actions that did not go down so well.

"bagging the boards I have, which happen to be both by local Goldy and Sunny Coast shapers and telling me my choice is poor based on price. Yeah great business practices!"

Bnaccas
Bnaccas
VIC
1722 posts
VIC, 1722 posts
18 Feb 2010 10:13am
Adapt said...

The guy in the carpark sounds dodgey I AGREE, but this doesn't mean that every guy or girl selling lessons or SUP boards in a car park as an add on to their business is dodgey, thats like saying the mobile coffee guy that comes to your work or the smoko girl is dodgey too, where would some of you be without them? .......


The coffee guy has/should have a permit as well as the SUP School. Cruising from beach to beach and selling boards to ill informed people without the correct paperwork is not right though, with or without product knowledge and back up support.

We have a SUP School down here that does lessons off the beach, sells a few boards here and there and puts on a great event every year. Although it's not the traditional retail business model they do everything by the book and support the sport in any way they can. How it should be done.
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