Area10 said...

I was fascinated by JonathanC's view that “the Glide 17 is a great board, but on flat water it's not as fast as many of the 14's out there including the Javelin”. So, being the kind of person who never believes anything until I've tested it myself, my paddling buddy and I today took out my Glide 17, and my Surftech Bark Dominator, to compare speeds, armed with GPS and heart rate monitors.

The results were very interesting, and not at all as we expected. Before we started we both said what we thought the result would be. Why? Well, because I'm a scientist by trade, and I know that people's expectations when carrying out an experiment can affect the results. So, I predicted that the Bark would be 0.1mph faster overall. And my paddling buddy said that he thought maybe there wouldn't be any difference at all.

Well, we went paddling together for about 2 hours, swapping boards at regular intervals. We were paddling mainly inshore at our local beach. Wind was lightish, F3-4 cross-onshore. We went cross-upwind, then cross-downwind, then straight upwind, then straight downwind, and then finished with some upwind sprints.

We have paddled a fair bit together in all kinds of conditions, so know our relative strengths and weaknesses well, which made the board comparisons easier.
The results were pretty plain. About 80% of the time the person in front was on the Naish 17. It was faster upwind than the Dominator, and when the bumps were noticeable and it was choppy it was faster downwind too. But when the bumps were really small and the sea was calmer the Bark had a clear advantage – much easier to accelerate it onto the tiny bumps. The slight extra stability of the Naish made it a little easier company over the full 2 hours. Well, until you have to lug it up the beach and onto your roof rack, anyway…

So, in the typical coastal conditions we get round here in the UK, we were pretty convinced that the Glide 17 has the edge speed-wise on what must surely be one of the fastest (if not the fastest) 14 ft flat water production raceboards out there.

Of course, this might not apply to absolutely glassy conditions, or inland waters etc. But I GPSed a 7 mile run in complete glass yesterday and looking back over the last year's worth of data, my 1km splits were at least as fast as anything I have managed on the Dominator.

BUT, here's the caveat – or perhaps I should say the secret to getting the most out of your Glide 17. I ditched the steering arms, and fixed the rudder before the comparison. When the steering arm(s) are fitted on the Glide 17, you cannot (at least at my weight, height and foot size) comfortably stand where you really need to be standing in order to be fast for flatwater. This spot seems to be somewhere between the balance point (handle) and the length midpoint, which is about a foot further forward. But if you remove the steering arm(s) you can stand about a foot or so ahead of where the mechanism otherwise forces you to stand. And it is then a good deal faster in flat water, and actually, the more forward standing position helps with paddle steering too. So, if you do that, you have at no cost a pretty fast flatwater board.

Actually, I'm going to ditch the steering mechanism altogether – it is pretty useless in the DW conditions we get round here – and get a standard FU fin box fitted. In my opinion the standard rudder is a bit on the small side anyway, for what I want.

Both of us were very surprised by this result. But it was perfectly plain. Which just goes to show that you can't trust your own judgements about speeds, you have to actually test boards side-by-side and in the conditions you paddle in, to be really sure. The Dominator felt faster. But it wasn't. I have some theories about why this might be, but that is probably quite enough for one post…

Oh yeah, I should also say that I have no affiliations to any watersports/SUP company whatsoever, and I love both my the Dominator and my Glide 17: very different boards, but both quite brilliant in their own way.

Area10 said...

JonathanC said “Have you ever paddled a Javelin? On dead flat water like a smooth river - where I first paddled one, it just blew me away…But side by side in flat water the Javelin vs the Glide 17 seems like a no contest...”

No I haven't tried a Javelin. I don't think they'd be much point in the conditions I typically paddle in. There seems a pretty clear consensus that it is a tippy board unless you are very light and/or small or have the balance of someone whose route to school from an early age was via a tightrope stretched over a shark-infested tank. No doubt it is great on inland waters.

In winter, our water gets down to 4C or below. So if your board is tippy, it is a total pain in the proverbial, and means you have to wear completely different clothes etc. It can even become a basic survival issue. For us, a tippy board is about as much use as hammer made of noodles.

It was pretty flat for the conditions of our “test”. But there was, as there nearly always is, a small amount of chop on the surface. It seemed pretty clear that a principal reason why the Glide was usually faster than the Dom, especially upwind, was because the rocker of the Glide meant that you go over the chop rather than straight into it. In dead flat glass this wouldn't be an issue for the Dom.

But both me and my paddling buddy are reasonably strong paddlers and neither of us are particularly light. If you were much smaller and lighter I can see that the Glide might just be way too much board perhaps. As always, it about matching board, conditions, and paddler. I'm sure you'll agree that there's no such thing as “a fast board”, there are only good board+paddler+conditions combinations.

It seems to me that the divide between the designs of boards that go well in inland waters, rivers etc. where there is very little chop, and coastal waters where that is the norm, is likely to increase still further. Stability and rocker seem very important to being fast in coastal waters. But then again I've not tried any board with the new type of wave-piercing bow yet.

But of the 14 ft race boards I've tried, the Dominator stands out for me as the easiest way to be fast. If I were to be racing you in *any* conditions, I'd FAR rather be on the Dom than a Javelin - you can't be fast when every other stroke is a correction stroke. But you are lighter than me, and no doubt a better paddler, and with better balance, so maybe the Javelin would suit you better.

And let's not forget that the Glide 17 and the Dominator are different race classes - and our results seem to suggest that there is good reason for that.

But please do carry out the comparison test you suggest. There's nothing like real data to cut through the conjecture! I wish there was more of it...

Laceys Lane said: “the 17 is a cracker to paddled up wind and if its a bit ugly. i'm not so sure about standing way forward. at some point you will be pushing the bow. i've done time trials and training sessions standing back and forward on the dc's and found i was a little better off just being roughly on the handle”

That is my point. The steering mechanism on the Glide 17 (almost) prevents you from standing level with the handle, let alone forward of it. It can be done, but not comfortably – there isn't much room between the arm and the rail to get your foot, and it means you have to adopt a rather cramped and unnatural paddling position. The steering arms are well placed for when you are in a surf stance riding a bump. But that is a long way behind where I find the board is fastest in flat water.

Incidentally, following your vid of you surfing the C4 Switchblade 12-6, I went and bought one. It's very hard in the UK to get to demo boards, so these forums can be pretty influential for us in purchasing decisions.