CMC said...

byronmaui said...

Aloha from Maui,

My thoughts are what I tell my son It doesn't matter what you ride just as long as you have respect/ettiquette for each other in the water and practice safety. There are no surf breaks designed for only one type or a specific type of rider/vehicle except maybe a shorebreak.

Go and watch kids having fun at the ocean. Most kids don't care what each other is riding. Everything usually gets screwed up when the adults start screaming foul and try to make rules in their favor.

This is just my opinion. As far as exclusive SUP area's on Maui I am not sure how that is working. We go where the surf is and always leave with a big smile.

Mahalo

Byron

Byron, I had heard that the SUP riders themselves had vowed not to ride Honolua and Hookipa among others. Is it working or are spots you would avoid anyway?

I am not sure how it is working.

When I go to the beach I look at tides, swell direction, wind direction, etc. and make the call from there. My priority at the beach is to have fun and I look at all the spots to determine where my fun factor will reach the greatest climax.

I think ettiquette and ability is the issue at hand for SUPing. Alot of people have come into the sport not understanding how the unspoken rules of lineups/surfing are so they are clueless in things like paddling around the breaking wave, lineup rotation, ditching boards, leashes, getting out of the impact zone, board control, etc. This creates havoc, injury, frustration,etc. and thus even if you are experienced or competent in the water your are lumped into those idiots on SUP's argument.

I really challenge everyone to help people new, inexperienced, wave hogs, etc. in a lineup with giving them pointers if you see issues. This will gain respect for you and more importantly help the person have a better experience in the water. Just remember sometimes you can take the horse to the water but he may not drink. At that point you kick them in the ass....j/k...

Aloha

Byron

P.S. Disclosure'''' I am affiliated with Paddle Surf Hawaii, Kialoa Paddles, Maui Ripper clothing, etc. and the opinion above is from me only''''...

Salatiela said...

So what are the unspoken rules of line up rotation etc, I've encountered some pretty hash words out there but as already said we're down the beach a little, off the point and when the tide moves so do those little c#@*# and with them there expectations, but if i want to take on 4"+ waves cause thats where i wanna be how am i sposed to know if only on the water for a year? maybe one for this form to issue? for there is alot of us sudo-paddlers out here.

sal.

Before SUPs came around, if you wanted to sit with the pack and and catch the set waves you'd spend years and years on the inside, in the whitewater, learning how to control your board and stay out of the way. Eventually you'd get to know the local crew and you'd be given a few set waves here and there. A few more years and you'd be allowed to sit with the main pack and take your turn.

Now that SUPs are here, it seems you just paddle straight out the back and try to take off on every set wave that comes through and if you can't make it then just ditch your board and paddle. And if there are a few SUPs, just take it in turns to take every set wave you like. You don't need any surfing background and don't need to know anything about the break or the locals or anything. You certainly don't need to go through the learning process in the whitewater with the groms, you're straight in position to dominate the lineup.

Legion maybe you read my words wrong.

If I see a hazard like a beginner SUP getting in the way, causing other people to eat it, throwing their board everywhere, etc. I will talk to them as friends. No brat pack just me helping someone out. I'd rather say something nice and maybe they will take my help in friendship and if they don't so be it. Everyday I SUP with shortboarders, longboarders, bodyboarders, canoes, etc. and I always have a good time.

Aloha
B

Trying to exclude SUPs from particular areas isn't going to work.

Some days the SUP area that they are meant to be at will be horrible and no-one will want to go there and miss out on a surf. Then the next when it is cranking it will suddenly be where all short and long boarders (and all the rest) will want to go. So then the whole circus starts again.

And who is going to enforce it and what are the penalties? Beach Inspectors / Rangers have enough to deal with and another duty will seriously impinge on their getting a suntan time.

A good start is to follow the basic rules and code in the water and hopefully the rest will follow.

I do agree though that the "doing your time" part in the line up seems to have been missed with a lot of the new paddlers coming out into the water. That's when you should speak out and suggest that the person move / get out of the way if they are causing problems.

Naturally they might tell you where to go, .... But at least you tried.

I see the problem as this, some SUP'ers DON'T come from a surfing background and after a couple of flatwater sessions they THINK they are watermen and bigger and better than others ,venture into the ocean and next time they are TRYING to surf in the pack, with NO surf etiquette what so ever.

Surfed short and long for 33 years and sup as well,this is my take on the topic.

What's next water police/security Da Haui style

That's right...a stable craft with a paddle aint no automatic ticket to share a crowded break.

doggie said...

Legion said...

Salatiela said...

So what are the unspoken rules of line up rotation etc, I've encountered some pretty hash words out there but as already said we're down the beach a little, off the point and when the tide moves so do those little c#@*# and with them there expectations, but if i want to take on 4"+ waves cause thats where i wanna be how am i sposed to know if only on the water for a year? maybe one for this form to issue? for there is alot of us sudo-paddlers out here.

sal.

Before SUPs came around, if you wanted to sit with the pack and and catch the set waves you'd spend years and years on the inside, in the whitewater, learning how to control your board and stay out of the way. Eventually you'd get to know the local crew and you'd be given a few set waves here and there. A few more years and you'd be allowed to sit with the main pack and take your turn.

Now that SUPs are here, it seems you just paddle straight out the back and try to take off on every set wave that comes through and if you can't make it then just ditch your board and paddle. And if there are a few SUPs, just take it in turns to take every set wave you like. You don't need any surfing background and don't need to know anything about the break or the locals or anything. You certainly don't need to go through the learning process in the whitewater with the groms, you're straight in position to dominate the lineup.

Agreed, as a young tacker I spent ages on foamies in the shore break and only went out the back once I had learned the basics, seems SUPs dont have to do that and its bloody dangerous.

I had my first crack at longboarding the other day and I gotta tell you I was miles out of my depth, was not confident at all. While I was in Indo last year I had a crack on a SUP as the land camp there had a couple for guests to use and it was bloody hard! I grew up on boats ect and it was lucky that I had read a bit about SUPs before trying it.
What Im getting at is people are getting into the sport without any experience and making all SUPs users look bad.

hi doggie, i have surfed all my life. when i first paddled a sup in the flats, i knew straight away i would be surfing along way from anybody as i had never been on a board bigger than 6'4. but i have to say, inexperienced shortboarders have no idea of the room and space and the direction you need to go and they literally put them selfs in the firing lining, where more experienced shortboarders know from mals situations in the lineup where to be. it all really comes down to a said persons actual water time
cheers
ps if i see a situation that looks like being dangerous, i say something whether i'm on a sup or shortboard

byronmaui said...

Legion maybe you read my words wrong.

Nah, wasn't responding to you, more to SUP riders in general (esp. those without a background in water sports). There are obviously several on here with prior experience who try to do the right thing.

laceys lane said...

... i have to say, inexperienced shortboarders have no idea of the room and space and the direction you need to go and they literally put them selfs in the firing lining, where more experienced shortboarders know from mals situations in the lineup where to be. it all really comes down to a said persons actual water time ...

I surfed with two SUPs for the first time last year at a popular break south of here. I didn't realise at all how much space they need. The guys were obviously inexperienced (couldn't do that turn on the tail that I've seen in pictures on here) so required a turning circle of at least 20'. To stay out of their way meant I had to put myself out of the takeoff zone. Hmm.

Maybe they realised I knew what I was doing (I've got a bit of experience) but they shared and I could pick set waves, but between me and them there weren't many left for the other guys sitting further inside. If they'd chosen they could've left me with far fewer waves. And if there were one or two more they could've left none. And these guys were relative beginners.

I've got another question for the SUPers, gunna start a new topic.

Be very careful with these voluntary ideas. You need only get some doughy council official to catch on and suddenly we will all be in a lake.

Plus being voluntary the wrong people would follow the suggestion and not the learners that you want off that particular break.

Common sense here please.

Diver said...

Iso's is pretty much a mal riders break and not worth the hassle paddling out to when there is a wave - it gets packed.

Wasn't that way 20 years ago. There were mals, sure, but it was a training ground for groms. Not any more.

See, now that's trolling .

Diver said...

Legion said...

doggie said...

... I agree that an exclusion zone wont work altho down at Cott @ Isolators is almost strictly longboards and stand up paddle and IMO that place is awesome to learn how to surf anything ...

When I was a grom it was about 50/50 mals and shortboards. On light days mals and on heavier days shortboards. Used to be OK in a strong NW gale. These days there are no shortboards out there ever and there never will be again.

Iso's is pretty much a mal riders break and not worth the hassle paddling out to when there is a wave - it gets packed. When there is a wave on there take it as an indication that you'll find just as good nearby. Also, the "crew" guard the place fairly jealously and an evil stare or comment will come your way if you are on a SUP. But I suppose that makes it all the more fun to be out there.

having surfed there quite abit and knowing most of the so called crew possibly even being labeled one of them, i can see both sides of the problem, sups who dont know what they are doing are just as dangerious as mal riders who dont know what they are doing. every body has a story me enclued, how ever nobody's born a pro, its hard for everybody when its crowded, good surfers get waves, poor ones try and there are only some many wave to go round, meaning we all cross paths at some stage. cant we all just get along?

billboard said...

Kooks on sups are no more dangerous or annoying than kooks on mals/shortys/bodyboards/skis/goaties and every other form of surfcraft. In general surf breaks tend to sort themselves out one way or another and life goes on and and always will. A sup exclusion zone to me is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and will never happen in OZ and I cannot believe it was even suggested.

Ive heard that they were going to make Angourie a sup exclusion zone......