tswei99 said..

SA_AL said..
I have been using Flyer 7 and 8.2 for low wind conditions with infinity 99. Recently, I got Goya Fringe X 6.3 after youtube description of the performance. I feel this sail is better than Flyer as I feel easier for pumping and better control during foiling.

My Flyer 7.0 is the 4-batten version and I have no trouble with stability as long as it is sufficiently down hauled. Agree that were the cog is not the issues as much as a taut leading edge, at the top half of the sail especially in case you are using a non-std mast. I also look for tension throughout the front of the lower half of the sail, there should be no slop in the front of the sail where the draft is.

I demo'd the Fringe 6.3 and while it had heaps of power (similar to 7.0 Flyer, maybe more) and very pump-able it tops out quickly. I can take my Flyer from 12-20 knots with my AFS 2, maybe 10-16 with Slingshot I84. The Fringe range is maybe half that. So Fringe is great for freestyle, but if you want to blast around and cover some distance in low winds, I would still rec a cambered sail. Even better is a cam sail on the rec'd mast, as high carbon as possible within your budget.

I have been using the same Goya RDM 430 mast (99% carbon) and Streamlined carbon boom for both 7.0 Flyer and 6.3 Fringe sails. On the low end wind, Fringe is much better but if it becomes very gusty I may consider cambered Flyer. However, I feel that you can open your Fringe pretty wide to deal with the control issue although I accept that cambered sail may be more stable on higher winds. Fringe requires a shorter boom and appears easier to control during flight.

tswei99 said..

SA_AL said..
I have been using Flyer 7 and 8.2 for low wind conditions with infinity 99. Recently, I got Goya Fringe X 6.3 after youtube description of the performance. I feel this sail is better than Flyer as I feel easier for pumping and better control during foiling.

My Flyer 7.0 is the 4-batten version and I have no trouble with stability as long as it is sufficiently down hauled. Agree that were the cog is not the issues as much as a taut leading edge, at the top half of the sail especially in case you are using a non-std mast. I also look for tension throughout the front of the lower half of the sail, there should be no slop in the front of the sail where the draft is.

I demo'd the Fringe 6.3 and while it had heaps of power (similar to 7.0 Flyer, maybe more) and very pump-able it tops out quickly. I can take my Flyer from 12-20 knots with my AFS 2, maybe 10-16 with Slingshot I84. The Fringe range is maybe half that. So Fringe is great for freestyle, but if you want to blast around and cover some distance in low winds, I would still rec a cambered sail. Even better is a cam sail on the rec'd mast, as high carbon as possible within your budget.

I have been using the same Goya RDM 430 mast (99% carbon) and Streamlined carbon boom for both 7.0 Flyer and 6.3 Fringe sails. On the low end wind, Fringe is much better but if it becomes very gusty I may consider cambered Flyer. However, I feel that you can open your Fringe pretty wide to deal with the control issue although I accept that cambered sail may be more stable on higher winds. Fringe requires a shorter boom and appears easier to control during flight.

SA_AL said..

tswei99 said..

SA_AL said..
I have been using Flyer 7 and 8.2 for low wind conditions with infinity 99. Recently, I got Goya Fringe X 6.3 after youtube description of the performance. I feel this sail is better than Flyer as I feel easier for pumping and better control during foiling.

My Flyer 7.0 is the 4-batten version and I have no trouble with stability as long as it is sufficiently down hauled. Agree that were the cog is not the issues as much as a taut leading edge, at the top half of the sail especially in case you are using a non-std mast. I also look for tension throughout the front of the lower half of the sail, there should be no slop in the front of the sail where the draft is.

I demo'd the Fringe 6.3 and while it had heaps of power (similar to 7.0 Flyer, maybe more) and very pump-able it tops out quickly. I can take my Flyer from 12-20 knots with my AFS 2, maybe 10-16 with Slingshot I84. The Fringe range is maybe half that. So Fringe is great for freestyle, but if you want to blast around and cover some distance in low winds, I would still rec a cambered sail. Even better is a cam sail on the rec'd mast, as high carbon as possible within your budget.

I have been using the same Goya RDM 430 mast (99% carbon) and Streamlined carbon boom for both 7.0 Flyer and 6.3 Fringe sails. On the low end wind, Fringe is much better but if it becomes very gusty I may consider cambered Flyer. However, I feel that you can open your Fringe pretty wide to deal with the control issue although I accept that cambered sail may be more stable on higher winds. Fringe requires a shorter boom and appears easier to control during flight.
There is another ongoing discussion on the forums for foiling related to performance on Fringe and many liked performance "Goya Fringe / Banazi Foil experiences"

sorry, did not mean to imply the Fringe is not great. It is. It's just that the Flyer is faster over a wider range because of the stability. For pure freestyle type sailing where you are changing direction frequently, the Fringe is great. For blasting along on long reaches, the Flyer (and I am sure others like the Severne Glide, etc) is what I prefer.

Awalkspoiled said..

thedoor said..

Awalkspoiled said..

thedoor said..

Awalkspoiled said..

jmf1 said..

Awalkspoiled said..

Mine works best downhauled to about 10cm PAST the half-cog and then outhauled maybe 2-3cm. It's the four batten 7.0 but I have it on a cut-down 460 so it's slightly stiffer than the intended mast. Not awful on a fin in 20 either!

Ok, so we are seveval Flyer users to have the same understanding about the downhaul. Abd up to where do you downhaul "Max" ?

In my case I only went to 10-15 cm past the half-cog.

That's what Phil Soltysiak says he does too - 10-15cm - for normal sailing. I think he goes further for overpowered but of course most of the Sailworks guys don't have to sail overpowered because the van is full of smaller sails!.

To be honest, though, I don't pay all that much attention to the cog while I'm rigging because I'm not on a standard mast. I'm mostly looking at the entry, which should be fine and not at all knuckled up by the leading edge, and the leech, which should be falling away down to the batten above the boom. This gives a little less oomph when getting going, but means that once you're flying the whole thing goes very light and doesn't overpower. The picture in the first post looks to me like it's under-downhauled for instance (too much knuckle), and not enough batten tension either (wrinkles in the batten pocket).

Cheers. This is highly likely, as with other sails I am in the habit of downhauling until the top batten falls off sounds like I need at least the top two battens fall off.

Not sure what you meant by entry?

By "entry" I mean the general shape of the leading edge up by the mast. An under-downhauled sail will exhibit a "knuckle" where the very front of the sail projects out at an almost 90? angle to the line between the mast and clew. It's looks powerful but it really isn't - the center of lift is too far forward and there's too much turbulence on both sides of the sail for maximum efficiency. All the depth of the sail is concentrated in the front 10% of the surface. It's also really harsh to rotate from tack to tack and the cams are prone to breaking...

So, I look for a "fine" entry where the leading edge of the sail blends smoothly into the rest of the curvature in the draft. It's hard to know just by looking when you've overdownhauled for a given mast but one cue is that the bottom batten will start to bend in an "S" curve (on some HSM sails this is actually an intended design feature - allows depowering).

Entry would mostly be a function of outhaul?

Well I primarily control entry with downhaul, myself. The more downhaul the more the luff curve of the mast matches the luff curve of the sail, so there's less excess material so the sail is flatter. You can do the same with outhaul but the sail gets super twitchy, especially sailworks stuff. My old sailworks sails from 1991 actually liked NEGATIVE outhaul, and there are some of the same genes in the new ones. The 6.0 Flyer is based around the 1991 5.6 Race.

Cheers

10 free race flyer arrived today - rig it tomorrow hopefully afternoon iron the bugs out then give it a spin on Saturday. First impressions - a lot of sail.

10 Metre Free Race.
Some early impressions. I have had two sessions on the sail now and could not be happier with its functionality. the wind was between 8-15 knots over two days.

Rigging:
It is simple and quick to rig - I have it rigged on a 550 + 12 North Platinum which does the job nicely as it is would be considered in the same range as the recommended 520 + 42 at Sailworks. There is less downhaul required than the NX but more than the smaller flyers. The mast stays pretty straight by slapper sail standards. The sail is so well cut the cams nearly pop on themselves when the correct downhaul is applied - in fact the top one does.

Sailing:
Most of the force in the sail is down around the boom and lower with a big square foot that will close the gap with nowhere near the rake of a slalom sail. Because of this, the sail is very controllable and well behaved and the sail is light in the hands and allows the rider to be comfortably upright - I had gusts of 15 knots at times and there were no issues with the handling of the sail it was controlled when luffed - but this was hardly necessary.

Uphauling:
Due to the tall narrow profile above the boom, the sail comes of the water easily by comparison to other sails I have. once the narrow tip is clear the sail starts to float in the air and comes up easily. Carrying the sail and board together is fine - again the narrow profile and the power being low places this over the board as its being carried and less caught by the wind.

Pumping:
I was interested in this sail from some time back and have been eagerly awaiting its release - I am 100kgs and struggle in the lighter air (10 knots) - this was a game-changer last weekend - It feedbacks as you pump and encourages you to really drive the board and foil forward with a very powerful response without running out of grunt.

In short - a great sail.