Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

I'm going foiling tomorrow?

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Created by jh2703 A week ago, 11 Jun 2019
jh2703
NSW, 1183 posts
11 Jun 2019 6:01PM
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I hope to have my first foil session tomorrow....What's the do's and don't for a newbie?

I've a 150 Slingshot Levitator with the 76 infinity windfoil and 3 masts 61/71 & 90 and plan to use a 5.7 Simmer Icon (5 batten).

what do I do.....

Cheers J.

elmo
WA, 7902 posts
11 Jun 2019 4:12PM
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Hang onto the boom no matter what.
Have fun
Laugh when you crash

snides8
WA, 1574 posts
11 Jun 2019 4:18PM
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jh2703 said..
I hope to have my first foil session tomorrow....What's the do's and don't for a newbie?

I've a 150 Slingshot Levitator with the 76 infinity windfoil and 3 masts 61/71 & 90 and plan to use a 5.7 Simmer Icon (5 batten).

what do I do.....

Cheers J.


Don't look back


seriously though well done for taking the leap.
i would recommend a sail size smaller than what you think...
imo in the beginning you need a sail
that requires pumping to get going.
I always recon that if you can get up without pumping you will find the sail too big.If you size it right you should get lift off after 3 or 4 pumps this will be the right size sail in the beginning.

you will get a lot of advice from lots of people that will end up being confusing.Everybody has a different setup and hence will have different advice on foil setting and mast base position and strap placing the list goes on.
Time on the water and an understanding of how the foil works and can be trimmed will help the learning.

KA360
NSW, 710 posts
11 Jun 2019 6:24PM
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jh2703 said..
I hope to have my first foil session tomorrow....What's the do's and don't for a newbie?

I've a 150 Slingshot Levitator with the 76 infinity windfoil and 3 masts 61/71 & 90 and plan to use a 5.7 Simmer Icon (5 batten).

what do I do.....

Cheers J.


Where are you going ? Callala ?

Gorgo
VIC, 4193 posts
11 Jun 2019 7:08PM
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The first step for learning to foil is to not get up on the foil. If you get up on the foil you're just going to get bucked off and crash.

When you start to foil you're standing on the board and doing board riding stuff, which is wrong. What you're trying to do in the early learning stages is to reset your muscle memory so you're delivering the right inputs to the foil. The inputs for foiling are exactly the same as any other board sport, but you need to turn the volume of the inputs way down to start with.

The key to learning to foil is to be able to feel the push of the foil through your feet. At first you will just feel the board. After 2-3 hours of practice it will click and you will feel the foil pushing up through your feet. Once you can feel that then riding on the foil is easy.

The usual way to practice foiling is to ride with your back foot a fair way forward. If your back foot is too far back the foil will buck and throw you off.

Learning to ride the foil is just the beginning. Once you can do that you can learn to be a foiler and that takes 100-200 hours. When you've really learned to foil you can go as hard as you want and amp up the control inputs to any level you want.

sausage
QLD, 4797 posts
11 Jun 2019 7:28PM
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I'm an expert J, I've now had two sessions (last Thursday & Sunday) on the Infinity 76 with 90cm mast using an iS117w. Got foiling pretty well immediately but kept the back foot forward enough to keep touching down until I felt confident to foil longer and then back foot found a balanced spot just forward and centre of the front mast bolt. I'm no expert but I wrote this on another thread (go down there's two posts)
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Freeride-wave-freestyle-foils-explained#2375259

First session here gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2019-06-06&team=20
Second session here gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2019-06-09&team=20

Good luck - its an incredible feeling sailing what feels like a mile above the water

Subsonic
WA, 1610 posts
11 Jun 2019 5:52PM
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First few sessions don't hook into anything. Just get a feel for the foil being down there. Snides is right, ideally, initially you want a sail you need to pump a little bit to get going (ive found a sail size smaller than what i would usually rig ends up being about right, once youre up and moving stand upright and sheet out. Expect to feel like a newb again.

That first moment when everything goes quiet is like planing for the first time again. Elmo said it already, don't let go of the boom.

CJW
NSW, 1538 posts
11 Jun 2019 8:49PM
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Just send it Jase I reckon with your wave background you'll find it easier because we're used to sailing far more upright and with far more front foot pressure than say your average slalom or bump and jump sailor. The foil is very laterally stable so don't even think about that.

You want to be powered so you can generate board speed easily. If you have to pump, in my opinion, this is hindrance when learning because there's a whole lot of foot pressure and mast rig loads that are over exaggerated. You want to be able to just sheet in, get good board speed and be prepared for the lift. That's the biggest thing, as soon as it lifts you have to be prepared to get forward fast and weight that front foot to control it. Once flying, front to back foot pressure should be pretty even, once again much like a wave board with small fins upwind. Trim with the front foot mainly and sail sheeting. Sheet in will drop the nose, sheet out and the board will lift, move the mast forward to accentuate this, and back to reduce it; moving the mast back will also make the foil more 'twitchy'

I wouldn't bother with the short mast, if it was me i'd go straight to the 90, but use the 71 if you're worried about the height (it's not bad). The short masts are just too short and don't have enough room for error in pitch trim so you'll ventilate the main foil a lot, once again hindering learning.

Don't over think it and just remember that a foil is a lot more sensitive to foot load that a normal board so tread lightly but quickly. It will probably fly out of the water initially as you've over loaded the back leg and aren't quick enough to get the weight forward. But if you can recognise this quickly you'll progress quickly. Front foot strap is also useful as it give you a lot more confidence as you can lift up with the front foot and generally feel way more connected. I would almost go as far as saying start out straight up with the front foot in the front strap and rear between the two, closer to the middle of the board. If you look at almost all 'gen2' foil boards they almost all have massive rear volume for this reason.

Lastly i'm not really that familiar with that foil but if they have an adjustable stabiliser, trim it for higher lift other than 'neutral' or less lift. This may sound counter intuitive but trimmed for less lift foils are naturally a lot less stable in pitch. The reasons for this have been discussed in other threads but they all fly a lot easier and with more stability with more 'lift trim', yes the lift will be greater but you'll be able to recognise it more easily and adapt to it quicker.

If I didn't have to work i'd come down and have a session with ya

jusavina
QLD, 1189 posts
11 Jun 2019 9:25PM
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+1 for just sending it

Bristol
ACT, 321 posts
11 Jun 2019 10:02PM
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A couple of safety rules:
(a) Always keep hold of the boom when crashing.
(b) Don't attempt waterstarting; too risky to cut your feet on the foil.

If possible, get an experienced foiler to test your gear setup. I fluffed around for ages, until Doug (McL) tried my gear, and recommended moving the mast base substantially forward. Made a world of difference.

Good luck, Jase.

jh2703
NSW, 1183 posts
12 Jun 2019 5:25PM
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Thanks all for the tips...unfortunately the wind was way too light today. I drifted around for a bit and got a feel for everything. I got one little gust and was able step back in the straps and could feel a little acceleration but alas no flight.

A few things....

I felt like my mast track for the sail was way too far forward so I'll move that back next time.

I think I had the foil mast too far back in the box so I'll move that forward next time.

I left my harness in the van but I'll take it next time.

Everything else felt good, It's been a while since I've up hauled but that came back to me quickly and it was easy to tack and gybe.

More wind please.


Cheers J.

Awalkspoiled
4 posts
12 Jun 2019 11:17PM
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Well, I'm a whole five sessions ahead of you so I'm no expert, and I'm also a 110kg heavyweight which makes a big difference too - but here's my experience so far:
It was really nice to start underpowered for a couple of hours, but now I have a lot more fun powered than pumping. Pumping is cool because the response is so strong - you can really feel the huge mast responding and eventually the foil, but being able to hook in and just glide up onto the foil gives the sensation of flight more quickly. Everyone says in 15 I should be on a 6.0 or less (with a fin I'd be on a 10.0) but in 15 I'm really happy on a 7.5.
I'm using a 61cm mast and haven't breached it yet - if chop isn't an issue you might want to start there or at 71. Up all the way feels REALLY high even on a 61!
You can waterstart by putting one foot on the wing which keeps you from kicking it. You CAN bump the wings even if you hold on to the boom when you crash - I blew off the back of the board while jibing overpowered and dinged my ankle pretty nicely.
I'm on a Formula board so that's different than your Wizard, but my i84 gets up much more easily in C position than in A or B. That may be a weight thing also.
These big wings are really lifty - I can definitely get foiling before I'm going fast enough to keep foiling, at least with my limited foil-pumping skills. So, for me, I keep my weight a little more forward until I'm close to planing before moving weight back and asking the foil to lift.

powersloshin
NSW, 1010 posts
13 Jun 2019 7:17AM
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I would also recommend a nose protector (for the board )

RAL INN
VIC, 2725 posts
13 Jun 2019 10:44AM
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Big wings like a more central upright stance

Maccapacca
VIC, 3 posts
14 Jun 2019 12:54PM
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Hi and welcome to Foiling.

I found sailing in flat water with about 15-17 knots the easier way to learn. Start by planning then just lean back a little for small low flights.
I started in 20 plus knots and was up and down like a yo yo with some big send its.
Time on the water will have you flying well.
I use 30 year old sails. Good luck and hoping to be joined by another foiler one day.


AlexF
192 posts
14 Jun 2019 8:39PM
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Maccapacca said..
....
I use 30 year old sails. Good luck and hoping to be joined by another foiler one day.




How do these old sails work for foiling?
Common opinion is that these old sails have more power than the modern ones.
I'm always wondering if i could repalce my 7.2 sail with an older, pre loose leech, 6.0 - 6.2 and have the same early planing/foiling.
Considering that i use my 7.2 quite underdownhauled (4cm) with minimal loose leech for foiling, i can't imagine that the old sails can deliver the same power with 1 sqm less.

Paducah
365 posts
14 Jun 2019 9:22PM
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AlexF said..

Maccapacca said..
....
I use 30 year old sails. Good luck and hoping to be joined by another foiler one day.





How do these old sails work for foiling?
Common opinion is that these old sails have more power than the modern ones.
I'm always wondering if i could repalce my 7.2 sail with an older, pre loose leech, 6.0 - 6.2 and have the same early planing/foiling.
Considering that i use my 7.2 quite underdownhauled (4cm) with minimal loose leech for foiling, i can't imagine that the old sails can deliver the same power with 1 sqm less.


That's kind of the theory behind the Naish Lift - baggy, soft sail. You may well get the same power but at the expense of range. Depends how gusty it is where you sail.

I keep meaning to rig up an 30 yr old NP a friend gave me but I always rig my cammed freerace instead. Someday...

LeeD
476 posts
15 Jun 2019 1:15AM
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The old sails were much lighter in weight per size, and could also be rigged to work well with tight leach for more power as well.

pcw
6 posts
15 Jun 2019 4:26AM
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Old sails may be OK, but I would not want to be using old masts. Modern 100% carbon masts make the rig so much lighter and easier to correct your height on the foil. Also cammed sails mostly seem to work better for foiling, being less affected by gusts. Old cam sails and cams don't often age well, zip pockets seize up etc. However, I guess old RAF sails are fine in the smaller sizes if you can find a good mast match.

One thing I found useful for foiling is a variable out haul whatever the sail, old or new, cam or no cam. It gives more range and options for larger sails. Let it off to power onto the foil and de-power when foiling or if the wind picks up unexpectedly. Also when its cold in the winter, don't need to jump in to adjust the end of the boom.

makesurf
NSW, 160 posts
15 Jun 2019 11:08AM
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Bristol said..
(b) Don't attempt waterstarting; too risky to cut your feet on the foil.



But if you have a short mast (on the foil - I use 65cm) then a big foil (like my Naish L) can be used as a step for the front foot during a waterstart.

LeeD
476 posts
15 Jun 2019 2:01PM
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It's before you find the step that you might stub/cut your feet or ankle/shin.

remery
WA, 378 posts
15 Jun 2019 2:46PM
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makesurf said..

Bristol said..
(b) Don't attempt waterstarting; too risky to cut your feet on the foil.




But if you have a short mast (on the foil - I use 65cm) then a big foil (like my Naish L) can be used as a step for the front foot during a waterstart.


That's just crazy talk! Does it work on light wind? I hate ropwstarting.

Maccapacca
VIC, 3 posts
15 Jun 2019 7:33PM
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I don't get too hung up on rig tension stuff let alone understand it but that RAF sail you see me foiling on is a gem in 14 knots and a dog over 17 knots.
What I do find awesome is again, a 30 year old North Ezzy that can sail so close to the wind, it's mind-blowing. It's a 5 metre and excels in 18 - 22 knots. I just can't afford modern gear and can only imagine how much more comfy I would be if I could.
But, as my picture shows, you can get out there and foil with old stuff and still have a blast. I reckon time on the water with any gear is key to mastering this sport. I haven't even bothered gybing yet as I can tack easily.
Loving this foiling!!

DavidJohn
VIC, 16139 posts
15 Jun 2019 10:40PM
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remery said..


makesurf said..



Bristol said..
(b) Don't attempt waterstarting; too risky to cut your feet on the foil.






But if you have a short mast (on the foil - I use 65cm) then a big foil (like my Naish L) can be used as a step for the front foot during a waterstart.




That's just crazy talk! Does it work on light wind? I hate ropwstarting.



I water start my Naish 122 Hover all the time without a problem.

I also hate uphauling and only do it when there's no chance of a water start.

I wouldn't be using my foil as a step.



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"I'm going foiling tomorrow?" started by jh2703