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Slingshot phantasm - carbon for hover glide anyone?

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Created by MrA 2 months ago, 21 Sep 2019
MrA
QLD, 71 posts
21 Sep 2019 9:50PM
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Alas the new phantasm carbon foil will apparently not be compatible with the hover glide.
Is there anyone who can or will make a carbon mast and fuselage to fit the hoverglide wings?

Gwarn
24 posts
21 Sep 2019 11:32PM
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I'm sure the wings in the Phantasm lineup are the same designs as the hover glide. I assume that this is why the release was delayed is so that the new wing designs in the HG line up have time to sell. It would be foolish to release both products back to back without giving the new HG wings time to sell before they reveal that the HG wings won't work with the new Phantasm foil.

Over in Iwindsurf wyatt miller revealed that there will be 17 wings in the Phantasm line up. So I would hold off until January when it's going to be released. That sucks for you guys down under as it is mid- season before this comes to light.

Paducah
611 posts
22 Sep 2019 12:54AM
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Gwarn said..
Over in Iwindsurf wyatt miller revealed that there will be 17 wings in the Phantasm line up. So I would hold off until January when it's going to be released. That sucks for you guys down under as it is mid- season before this comes to light.



Linky?

So are Hoverglide EOL or are there going to an aluminum and carbon platforms side by side?

Gwarn
24 posts
22 Sep 2019 1:12AM
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www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34402&sid=5836713c7f3d75107d8d2273f091d908

Post 5 is from Mr.Wyatt Miller

Gwarn
24 posts
22 Sep 2019 1:42AM
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This is the only video that I could find of the phantasm
The first 20 sec of the video is of the foil it looks like the wing and fuselage are similar to the moses but the video is not the best so anybody's guess?
This is just my opinion nothing more.

MrA
QLD, 71 posts
22 Sep 2019 5:55AM
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Thanks Gwarn

interesting reading
in the first post on the second page isobars says he bought a 2019 hoverglide and mentions a new connection boss for the fuselage to the mast. Is anyone familiar with this connection? Pics? My 2019 hover glide doesn't have anything other than 2 bolts holding the mast to the fuselage.

is there a niche market for someone to make carbon masts and fuselages at a reasonable price to retrofit to the hoverglide wings?

Paducah
611 posts
22 Sep 2019 5:51AM
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MrA said..
is there a niche market for someone to make carbon masts and fuselages at a reasonable price to retrofit to the hoverglide wings?


Assuming IP is not an issue, it wouldn't be a cheap endeavor.

Reasonable price and carbon masts aren't two terms that exist easily side by side. A quality carbon mast requires lots of carbon and a mold (machined aluminum from what I've seen). You could instead use something off the shelf but in the US, an 85cm SB carbon mast costs $1300 alone (about 3/4 of the way to your own Moses). If you are thinking the SB mast is steep (it probably is), most quality carbon wings are from $400-600 (US) and they are generally much easier and cheaper to build than a mast.

I'm sure that someone will do it on their own for funsies but then building in a profit margin for materials and time will make it a challenge to hit your "reasonable price".

I'm sure that more than a few Hoverglide owners hope I'm wrong, and for their sake, I hope so, too.

MrA
QLD, 71 posts
22 Sep 2019 9:07AM
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I guess "reasonable" is not that clear.
The ghost whisperer complete was about $3k here
if the carbon mast and fuse could be say half of that cost and you can use your existing collection of wings it may be worth considering rather than forking out for the full foil

KDog
52 posts
22 Sep 2019 10:32AM
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Ok all I can say about the phantasm is what i saw from a couple of gorge trips this summer. The mast I looked at 110cm looked nice,wings yes their is going to be about a dozen windfoiling surfing suping ect. Had a chance to pick up a wing that was very similar to the 76 infinty way lighter my guess would be foam core. I asked about the fuse and was told non carbon but i might be wrong did not look like any of it would swap with the Hoverglide stuff. How much is it going to retail for who knows for me the hoverglide works fine for the price and is pretty durable but people are always going to want high end kit.

22 Sep 2019 10:37AM
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Hi guys

The Slingshot Phantasm Carbon program is being released when it is ready (soon).
Pricing is not decided yet, but will come soon.

You can use the Hoverglide wings on the new Phantasm foils, BUT you need to get the converter fuselage.
From what I can understand the new converter fuselage, is a updated version where the mast inserts into the fuselage.

I know that many current foilers, might think of the opportunity to try a carbon mast and still use the hoverglide wings.
So yes this is possible. You would need carbon mast + the converter fuselage. Pricing still to come.

The 'normal' Phantasm as a setup will have it's own unique fuselage, and the Hoverglide wings can't be used on this.
All the fuselages are in Alu.

The timing of the release is nothing really to do with the Hoverglide program / release, but more a fact, that the production is at a new factory and nothing is released before it has all been tested thoroughly. So when it is ready, - it's ready :)

Like mentioned there is always a place for high end products.

Personally I have to say that the standard Hoverglide package with the 76cm wing is what I currently use 95% at the time, and on the fun factor scale ( + how easy it is to use + price) it deliveres 100% :)

Cheers
Jesper

MrA
QLD, 71 posts
22 Sep 2019 12:41PM
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Thanks Jesper
very interesting.

airsail
QLD, 360 posts
22 Sep 2019 10:59PM
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For interest I measured the mast twist of three different masts, one Naish alloy and 2 carbons one being a high-modulus Race mast. Slightly different lengths and thicknesses varied the results, the alloy was 90 cm, standard carbon 101 cm and the high modulus 110 cm.
The Naish alloy is 4 times stiffer than either carbon mast which had similar values. A deflection of 6mm compared with 24 mm for the carbons. Yes, being slightly shorter helped the alloy but unless your chasing ultimate weight saving, alloy is quite a good option.
If the Phantasm gets the stiffness closer to alloys it will be a good thing, cut the weight down a lot.

boardsurfr
WA, 949 posts
22 Sep 2019 10:01PM
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I wonder if some flex in carbon masts actually is a good thing. Too much is obviously bad, but could a small amount actually be beneficial?

Gwarn
24 posts
22 Sep 2019 11:04PM
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Jesper thanks for clarification of what's going on with the new foil as I have been attempting to find out the answers for over a month and a half with no success from SS.

I spoke to Moses about the carbon content in there masts and there answer was the only 3k carbon is on the outside layer to give it a smoother look and the rest of the glass is 12k.






MrA
QLD, 71 posts
23 Sep 2019 7:20AM
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airsail said..
For interest I measured the mast twist of three different masts, one Naish alloy and 2 carbons one being a high-modulus Race mast


Thanks airsail
is ther much difference in thickness between the alloy vs carbon mast and is there a noticeable difference in drag as a result?

airsail
QLD, 360 posts
23 Sep 2019 7:29AM
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Interesting that Moses don't use prepreg carbon for their masts., maybe they are using film adhesive.

lakeeffect
37 posts
23 Sep 2019 8:35AM
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I read the entire topic. To sum it up you have specific needs and you picked a path to met those needs. Then the brand manager pulls his pants down and poops right in the middle of the path you have chosen. You must be a nice guy. Those things only happen to guys.

lakeeffect
37 posts
23 Sep 2019 8:35AM
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I read the entire topic. To sum it up you have specific needs and you picked a path to met those needs. Then the brand manager pulls his pants down and poops right in the middle of the path you have chosen. You must be a nice guy. Those things only happen to nice guys.

AlexF
239 posts
26 Sep 2019 7:06AM
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I was also fed up by getting no information about the Phantasm, so I ordered a Moses Tortuga 873. I received it today, quite nice looking foil. The wing looks a lot like my Infinity 84.
Impressed by the weight of the Moses , 3,6 kg vs. 6,2kg.
Alex

Gwarn
24 posts
27 Sep 2019 10:11PM
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I was a little concerned about the Moses 790 specs on paper as it looked big then the 76SS wing but once I opened it I knew that I was going to be good ride.
Both front and rear wings are of a higher aspect and much thinner and weigh much much less.

So I have found that it's much more easy to crave with the taller mast and is quicker to accelerate making carving that much more fun but still you can slow it down to a stall and not fall off the foil and spin outs are a thing off the past.

If the SS76 is your foil of choice I recommend finding a demo of the moses 790. As you won't look back

Just my opinion






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"Slingshot phantasm - carbon for hover glide anyone?" started by MrA