What's your weight? Bic techno 145 is a great learner board. Can use 5.0 to 9.0 on it!

A shop is going to charge you way over your limit for a complete kit. I would find a populated windsurfing location, talk to the sailors about gear. They may have some gear for you they want to unload for a killer price, perhaps in your price range. That's your best bet. But, how many areas are closed with the COVID problem? A lot! Craigslist has mostly old, warn out stuff that is ready to snap n break the minute you get a good wind. Once in a while you can get lucky. If you live in a populated windsurfing town, you may have more gear selection on Craigslist. Go with your gut, if it looks old and ready to fall apart, it most likely will when you own it and you're out on the water stranded when it breaks. Look for a wide, floaty board that doesn't have much give on the deck and bottom side of board when you push your hand into it. Good luck!

@Force Ten: I know I will LOVE windsurfing, as I love sailing my dinghy on the mountain lakes near me. I like planing across the water under a Bermuda rig, leaning out of the boat.

@Magic Ride: I am currently unable to go to the "popular windsurfing spots" to talk to other sailors about gear due to CoVid restrictions. You are definitely right about not going to shops, they will be way out of my price range. THANK YOU for this piece of advice: "Look for a wide, floaty board that doesn't have much give on the deck and bottom side of board when you push your hand into it. " How much is too much "give"? like should it feel like a regular fiberglass surfboard? Harder? Softer?

@ Willy Wind, thank you for the advice about the SF Windsurfing group on Facebook. Regarding beginner rigs, I have not seen any on craigslist near me, haven't seen anything with a centerboard. I think that with my sailing background, I can probably begin learning with a non-centerboard rig.......I hope.

Why is the general advice not to get O'Brien boards? Why is the general advice not to get slalom boards? I am going to see this seller tomorrow and I fully expect his gear to be junk, but I would like to know WHY it is junk, and not just "my feeling as a sailor that it is junk".

How heavy is "too heavy" for a 9.5ft/114in/2.8meter long, 1.9ft/23in/0.58meter wide board?

I can (and will) bring a scale with me so I have a good reading on what old junk weighs for the next time I look at something.

Why is the general advice not to get O'Brien boards?

How heavy is "too heavy" for a 114in long, 23in wide board?

Aside from looking for obvious cracks and damage, how else to check if something is too old or worn?

Is faded, dry plastic a good indicator of "too old and worn and likely to snap in wind"?

How should a sail feel if it is still usable?

Should a good sail be: 1.) completely rigid like a sheet of thick plastic when laid out? or 2.) Flexible like the Dacron of a hang glider wing?

we were talking about beginner sails yesterday, definitely go with ones that have at least 4 battens, but no camber inducers.

There's two ways of shaping sails, seam and luff curve. So a fully luff curve shaped sail will sit very flat until a mast is inserted, a seam shaped sail will have excess cloth around the lower area, then there's a combo of both. My opinion is the combo is probably a better learning sail.
A fully luff curve shaped sail will typically have the battens pocking in front of the mast, and have no draft, when statically rigged, it takes wind pressure to "rotate" the sail. This means there is a wind range where the sail is unstable, between no and full draft. A well designed combo can have draft to start with, and won't need as much wind to "turn on".

A fully seam shaped sail will need very little wind to fully power up, but can lack adjustment for different wind strengths.
This is extremely hard to tell unrigged. There's also the problem of different sails needing different bend curves to set properly.

Pre mid to late 90s sails didn't have loose leaches and require much downhaul, this gave them a fairly narrow range. More modern sails require much more downhaul and have loose leaches, this gives them a greater range and more top end speed.

So it would be easy to buy old gear that is practically worthless.

Around here, guys have found half reasonable gear at the local tip.

Unless you are going to sail in off shore conditions you don't need a centre board. But a centre board will help if you can only find narrow boards, it adds to stability and makes going up wind easy.

boards should be similar hardness to surfboards, the obvious places to check are around the feet area on the deck and between tail and mast track on the bottom.

Depends how the board has been used/abused. Doing 50 to 60mph (modern slalom boards will do over 70mph but I doubt what you'll be looking at wont), over choppy water can put high loads on the bottom. Same as wave boards landing a big jump flat.
If the bottom sandwich isn't stiff enough this will fatigue the core foam, bad enough in some cases for the whole back area to delaminate. This is more likely if the bung has been left done up in hot or low pressure conditions.

The other thing with modern mylar sails is UV radiation, they'll only take so much then they fall apart, and it's hard to tell how close they are to that point.

I remember when I was learning, I hung around some spots where I met some knowlegable windsurfers and learned a great deal from them. That being said, I'd go back and see them again, talk to them some more. They got to know me a little, I got to know them a little. Then they started setting me up with gear they haven't used in a while, gear they taught their wife and teenage kids on for next to nothing. I got a lot of free gear thrown in too. They saw the passion I had for learning the sport, and in return, I received some nice gear. One of the guys was sponcered and received new gear all the time. One of those sails I got was brand new, and I paid 80 percent less than it was selling for at retail. You will find gear at an affordable price that fits your budget. Just be patient. You may have better luck, once this COVID 19 virus is over. We're hoping by the beginning of summer, this virus strain will be over with, at least in the USA for that timeframe.

Hey emg,

I was able to open the ads. the first board is a Hifly 330fx. I have the same board. 330 cm long and 160/190l (you will need to do a little bit of research on the dimensions).
This is a "plastic" board; either polyethylene or ABS or something like that. that means that instead of a fiberglass shell (or carbon, kevlar, wood, etc) it has plastic. The good thing about that construction is that it is pretty tough; it does not crack as easily as fiberglass. the downside is that it is heavy. My board weighs 37 pounds with no fin or daggerboard. I checked my board for "strength" and man, I pressed with both thumbs in many places and the thing did not gave in at all! look at the board as if you were looking at a piece of lumber for straightness. you don't want to see depressions or bumps. If you see some, press there hard. don't forget you are talking about a very old and cheap board so do not expect everything to be perfect.
check that the daggerboard moves freely (it should be a little bit stiff but not too much...)

The mast track on that board can use modern bases so that is a plus as well

if you weight less than 200 pounds you should do fine with that board. Of course, a newer board much wider would be easier but that is not the case now.

The good thing about having a board with a daggerboard when you are learning is that you will have much more success going back to where you started and you will be able to go upwind pretty well

sboardcrazy is correct re: slalom boards

O'brien was also a plastic board and I think they were made on the west coast (maybe Washington state?). the second board does not have a daggerboard. I would not buy it because you will spend a lot of time and probably money getting the right one.

Let me know if you have any more questions and good luck!

Thank you! I take it that you like the Hifly 330fx. I keep trying to contact that seller with no response. I hope he still has it. Now that someone on here has seen the board, and doesn't say that it is terrible, I will put a lot of energy into go to see that one.

I am still planning to meet with the seller of the O'Brien Slalom Board tomorrow to see his board, harness, three sails, and accessory gear. Very good to know that it is plastic. Thank you.

Mr Milk said..
I know slalom sailors are fast, but 70mph? Isn't the world record a little over 50 knots? And not done on a normal 58-66 cm wide board

Silly old fart time, I'm thinking 70km/hr, but because I'm talking to an American wanted to use mph, but forgot to convert it!!!!!
So yes more like 35mph for a slalom board

decrepit said..
I'll just mention this in case it applies, but somehow I don't think so.

The young, keen, fit wave sailors here, sometimes will learn on small boards. They bypass the uphaul stage and start by learning to water start. For this you need fairly consistent and steady moderate wind. So somewhere in the region of 15kts to 20kts. Using that method you could get away with a board 10% to 20% more volume than you weigh. Whereas for learning the uphaul method you need a board that easily floats you probably 50% to 100% more than your weight.
The uphaul method is easier, in good steady light wind conditions you can be sailing almost straight away.
But the water start method is faster to get you planning, but a lot more hard work and frustration getting there.

Not many people teach this method, and it's hard to learn without an instructor watching what you are doing wrong. There's a lot of stuff going on that's counter intuitive, but as a sailor, you have a chance of understanding that.

However if you are mainly doing light wind stuff you'll need to learn to uphaul on bigger boards anyway, so probably the easiest way to go.

As to bending a board across your knee, if you can do that, the board is useless. If it's delaminated, that should be obvious, the sandwich will normally just "bubble" up. I haven't seen it happen to a plastic board though. as said they are normally very tough. Not a bad way to go for learning on as they will withstand the crashes better.

I think he's going to sail mountain lakes? If so he will probably have gusty maybe light winds so a bigger board will help.

Ok, I have quite the story for you guys!!! I went to look at the 1991 O'Brian Pro-am SL board for $180. He directly told me that he hasn't had much interest in it, and I believe him. The price is too high. He is about the same height and build as I am, and he told me that he "took one lesson from some guy who put him on a very big and slow board and then immediately after that lesson, bought this one back in 1991." He told me that he had a lot of trouble at first, learning by reading books, but "got the hang of it eventually." He weighs about the same as me, and he told me that he only ever uphauled the board. (I was surprised because I weigh 165lbs or 75kg and assumed that I would have trouble uphauling a 145L board). Seller did not understand what a "Water Start" is when I asked him about doing one. He told me that to turn and/or tack: "You get off the board, drop the sail into the water, and swim around the board to uphaul the sail on the other side and then go back across the lake."
THE BOARD:
1.) It is a plastic board and it weighs a lot more than my old fiberglass surfboard. Unfortunately, I forgot to bring my bathroom scale, so I couldn't get an exact weight, but I estimate it is around 35 to 45lbs. NEGATIVE
2.) Board is 112" long by a 23" beam by 5" Max thick. Polyethylene Plastic not Fiberglass. Seller claims that it is a 145 Liter board. NEGATIVE
3.) One small damage hole in the rear fill-plug, no other damage. Tip and tail are in good shape. No delamination. POSTITIVE
4.) Universal Joint is in good shape. POSITIVE
5.) Main fin is in good shape. Extra fins, one is in good shape, one is cracked. POSITIVE
7.) Footholds will need new fabric sewn in, but are useable. NEGATIVE
6.) Overall condition: very good for age and use. However, it is an advanced Slalom Board. Seller seemed to have trouble handling the board back in the '90s with only one lesson and no prior sailing experience. NEGATIVE
.
MAST AND GEAR:
1.) Mast is in good shape and all joints fit snugly. 196" long. POSITIVE
2.) Boom is in decent shape, except for odd wobbliness at the slip-joint between the mast and the boom, but this could be normal or just how I rigged it. NEGATIVE
3.) Harness: in good shape, except for one very faded buckle that will have to be re-sewn. Harness attachment points are ok. POSITIVE
.
THREE SAILS:
1.) Largest sail is the only sail he ever used and it looks very old and faded from a lot of sun exposure, and may be delaiminating. NEGATIVE
2.) Second sail is not bad, he said he rarely used it, it looks to have been stored clean and dry. POSITIVE
3.) Smallest Sail he said he never used, and it looks it. Looks almost new, even though it is from 1991. POSITIVE

My questions are:
If I could get this for something resembling a reasonable price:
1.) Can I use the board with the smaller sails?
2.) Seller claimed that with the big sail he could uphaul it and use it in conditions only between 10 to 15kt winds. Does this sound accurate?
3.) If the smaller sails demand more wind, will I be able to learn on such a board (145L, 40lbs) in greater than 15kt winds?
.
I estimate this board to have an actual value of around $50 American dollars. He wants $180....

If it were me, I'd wait for a newer generation kit to come around. That being said, you will most likely be spending more than you anticipated in your budget. At least you will have gear that works well, find parts for, and will be lighter weight than the old stuff. Put some money away towards this gear. I believe you will be happier in the long run. Some people here recommend a lesson or two. I would highly recommend that too. You will have so much more insight on the sport, as well as some hands on experience to guide you forward on a purchase. And who knows, perhaps the person giving you a lesson just may have a kit for you that is in your budget. Keep plugging away!

@Decrepit I hope I can get him to come down to a reasonable price. If he comes down to $50, I will get it, in order to learn.
.
With the damaged "large size" sail (which he said was the only one he ever used), the damaged plug on the board, and the damaged foot-holds, he may be willing to come down a bit. These damaged items are a "real reason" to reduce the price.
.
Then there are my personal reasons that this particular board is less valuable to me as a beginner: 1.) It's a slalom board (not really a beginner model) 2.) It's plastic, not fiberglass. 3.) It's heavy (much heavier than my fiberglass surfboard). 4.) It's narrow, therefore difficult to uphaul. (Though obviously not impossible if he was doing it.) 5.) The sails are a very old design (nevermind the damaged one!) and do not provide a good range of wind speeds that the board can be used in.
.
I will try to ask him what the sail sizes are. I will also try to find out what kind of water conditions (flat, chop, etc) he used it in.
He told me that he exclusively sailed on Thermilito Afterbay which is a pretty small body of water, only about 50ft deep and less than a mile across, that lies above a very flat valley where high winds can develop and blow across the lake without disturbing the water surface too much. Here are some links with pictures that show how flat the surface of Thermilito Afterbay is. It's like glass. Even in high wind. www.forebayaquaticcenter.com/ I realize that he may have been sailing in VERY special conditions to be able to use this board with so little experience.

By contrast here is a link, with pictures on a public Facebook page, of the windy, choppy mountain lake that I will be sailing on. www.facebook.com/Whiskeytown-Sailing-Club-245522131111/

The wind on Whiskeytown Lake where I sail can get as high as 60knots (this is in the area where the hot, dry, high winds can blow down power lines and start massive fires). I have sailed a Sunfish when such conditions started to develop and by the time it got to 20knots, I was booking it back to the dock as fast as possible. Have been out there in a larger boat at 35kt, and the chop and waves are intense.

Once you have enough wind to plane, you also have enough wind to waterstart. And if you have enough sail control to be able to plane, you should also have enough skill to waterstart.
But yes uphauling in chop is harder, and will make learning more difficult for you. Perhaps you could use both methods. uphaul when the wind's light, and have a go at water/beach starts when it's too strong.

The other thing about the sails, if they are also slalom sails to match the board, that will make it even harder to learn. They will have camber inducers where the battens meet the mast to keep max draft at all times. This means the sails never go flat when fully sheeted out, making it harder to uphaul and water start.

A lot depends on the chop, some places the chop is nicely organised with long straight lines, other places it's disorganised with lumps going in all directions. this makes it much more difficult. I think it depends on the shore line and how the chop gets reflected back from it. Also big power boats can add all sorts of interesting waves.

I wouldn't worry too much about chop, you should be able to plane OK in 20cm/30cm chop.

The thing with that board, it's more suited to water/beach starting than uphauling, depending on those sails it should be possible to learn that way, in a steady 15kts. You can start the basics in 10kts, learn to body drag, keeping the board across the wind, without trying to get up. this will help you learn, both sail and board control. The most counter intuitive thing about water starting happens when you first try to get up. Instinctively you want to pull on the boom and push on the board. This is the exact opposite of what is needed. You have to pull on the board to get it underneath you, and push on the boom to get the sail up to get wind pressure. When you get a board, and if yopu want to explore this method I can go into more detail. But at some stage learning it makes windsurfing a lot easier. the sail is pulling you onto the board rather than vice versa