Close the slot or not?

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vando
vando
QLD
3419 posts
QLD, 3419 posts
7 Feb 2006 8:30pm
Wow the winds come through it absolutely howling out side now.
One prob its dark LOL. I went down late but the wind was only gusting to 20 knots, Decided to give myself one more days rest.
Where were you Mark did you get out at all.
Tom looks good but dying off in the arvo, hope I don't miss it.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
7 Feb 2006 8:40pm
Nope spent the day watching cricket and drinking beer... aaaah the finer things in life

Wind didnt really come in at home till about 4, figured I will save myself and have a full day of sailing tomorrow. Pity there is no one else to sail with in the middle of the day.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
7 Feb 2006 10:34pm
hi drjukka.

hope all goes well at sandy. my biggest regret is not going there a few years back. some of the caloundra crew were heading down and i was offered a seat plus all the gear i could carry. didn't go due to exams and work.
drjukka
drjukka
QLD
258 posts
QLD, 258 posts
7 Feb 2006 10:50pm
Hey Gestalt,

fear not, life is long.

As an ex Melburnian I used to sail "the pit" a fair bit and was privileged enough to see yellow pages set the old speed record many moons ago - awesome. Also saw them try and fail one day cos there was one inch of chop. !!!

It is worth the trip, but you will need to be there for a while as the wind can be fickle.

Looking to dust off the old speed boards over winter.

- J


Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
7 Feb 2006 11:33pm
Hi Shwell.

the centre of effort of your sail (COE) and its relationship to the centre of resistance of the fin (CLR) works exactly the same way as it did when you were on your wally. but on a short board everything is a lot more subtle. all sail craft use the same theory.
with windsurfing this is one of the reasons there is so much debate as to the correct stance etc when sailing. there are so many variables. every minor adjustment changes the relationship and you know when you get it right because you will achieve the sweet spot.

to test this you can turn your shortboard without carving. the sail will steer you.

sail along on a beam reach. 90 deg to the wind. (planing)
transfer weight to your back foot rake the sail back more and sheet out.
your board will turn upwind because the sails COE is behind the fins CLR
then sail on a beam reach again. (planing)
this time. shift you weight forward by standing more upright and rake the sail forward more while sheeting in harder.
your board will turn downwind.

an extract from iwindsurf forum.

1. One steering wheel is your sheeting angle. Sheeting in = steering downwind. You're VERY likely to be sheeting out, which is steering you upwind. Sheet in until your sail foot is very near your rear foot while planing.

Another steering wheel is your board roll angle. You likely have most of your weight on your feet, your feet are on the upwind side of the board, this depresses the upwind rail, which steers a shortboard (by definition, any board with no daggerboard)upwind. Use your feet and ankles to roll the board so its rails are even right-to-left (a roll angle of zero in airplane terms) or even until the downwind rail is slightly depressed. Weighting the booms (via your harness, not your front hand; the latter is WORK) merely lessens the upwind rail pressure; you actually want to ADD pressure to the downwind rail, not merely SUBTRACT pressure from the unwind rail. Put much of your weight into the harness AND use ankle muscle to roll the board level or slightly downwind-rail-down. That turns THAT steering wheel downwind.

3. Just as when slogging or longboard sailing, tilting the sail back so its center of effort (COE) gets behind the board's center oflateral resistance (CLR)steers the board upwind (but you knew that from all the windsurfing books you've read, right?) So how can one rake the sail (the COE) back and still steer offwind? Because as a board pops onto a plane, its CLR also moves back, so the COE can still remain over the CLR. Sheeting in aids this effect because it helps drive the COE forward, keeping if forward of the CLR.


so any combination of all of the above can be used to turn a board.

the same for sailing fast in a straight line. it is a balancing act between the COE and the CLR. on a reach some people stand more upright keeping their weight off the fin (usually heavyweights) and others rake the sail more and sheet a bit harder closing the gap (usually lightweights). the advantage to the more upright stance for the heavyweights is they keep planing in the lulls because their weight is hanging off the rig more. keep the rig vertical in the lateral direction (rake direction is different)as much as possible. once the COE and CLR are in equalibrium for the particular angle you are sailing you will know.

http://s122188322.websitehome.co.uk/special_features/speed/speed_015.htm
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
7 Feb 2006 11:36pm
drjukka,

i would love to have a crack at the formula record.

have order a new KA sail and will hope to get a gps soonish.

i was thinking somewhere around victoria point in a SE.
drjukka
drjukka
QLD
258 posts
QLD, 258 posts
8 Feb 2006 11:50pm
Gestalt,

I hear that there is a run off Thompson St (sp??) beach at Vic Point that is great in a SE. I sussed this area out a few weeks ago and could not see the run - perhaps need some local input as to where to launch and sail.

Of note, Vando has a run off Wello in a SE where he has clocked 32+ knots. Vando and I sailed off Manly a couple of weeks ago and he was hitting peaks in the 32's with solid 10 seconds over 30 knots ( I was on 28-29 consistent). I have recently started getting 30+ runs off Manly in the right conditions - (mid tide).

Good luck with a crack at a formula run - anyone who runs those huge sails in high winds deserves some respect!!. GPS is good investment, a better investment is an aquapac to protect the unit - despite their claims of waterproofness!!.


Also good to note that up until today Vando held the 1 hour record - set sailing between Wello and Manly on a NE wind - so good speeds are possible around BNE.

- Dr J
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
9 Feb 2006 1:52am
Dr J,
i think i can help with the search.

thompson (esplanade), Victoria Point.
only works on a mid to high tide as there is no water at low tide. SE-S. Not much good for formula gear as the fin is to deep. don't see many people there anymore. if you keep heading past the ferry terminal on your run you can sail to coochiemudlo island. prob a 3km run all up. most people used to rig up at the end of the park, keep following eagle street off thompson street along the park until you hit thompson esp.
further upwind (south) from the beach in a SE there is a small island and another channel. can get very choppy but allows for some really long runs.

Bay Street, Redland Bay
it will work in either a SE or NE. very flat and more mid to high tide. the runs there are endless. plus the launch is sandy on the beach. propably the best flat water kiting spot i have seen (i can't teabag). muddy when you get out from the beach.

i live locally and have a mate with a boat who i have asked to tail me up to coochiemudlo from torquay road point talburpin. 6-7 km run.
i have sailed torquay road in 45knot SE and it was full on. i stupidly took out a 5.2 ezzy wave and got hammered. lost the rig and paddled 2km back in. why didn't i rig the 4.2?

oxley place sandstone point. is another awesome spot in a SE. very very good speed location. mid tide is best. used to take a tandem windsurfer out there. it is a sand beach and the run over to bribie is a blast. watch out for the oyster beds just before the passage starts. only do that with an incoming tide. unless you want massive air when you get to the bribie passage. i have sailed 6 foot swells on an outgoing tide and they are very steep. plus there is nothing between you and moreton island if you break something. peter nitschke and myself have been hit by jumping fish while sailing there. pretty funny stuff. once pete came in complaining he had broken a fin and when he turned the board over he had a fish scewered on the fin. (I learnt to windsurf around bribie.)

i love the sail over to manly from wello. really nice. great NE locale i agree. i have chased a few of you slalom guys in the past on my formula gear and reckon from what you are clocking i must be doing around 25kn. the gps will find me out.

only using an 8.5 at the mo, so not to big. i use it for everything up to 20kn. now that is what formula is about. one rig and one board for all ocassions. will get a 10.5 at the end of the year. anything over 20 and i use the wave gear.

lately been going to jennifer ave on the goldie. good for bump and jump. the transition from formula back to wave is a problem i am finding, so i figure it will imporve my technique if i sail more b&J.

i am sure Mike will regain his slot....
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
9 Feb 2006 3:08am
Good luck chasing the formula title, I've used a 9m on the hypersonic 3 times with a top of 26 (and you are going wider still [}:)]). There is so much sail and fin that if anything happens it's gonna be bad (might I suggest a weight jacket).

Have often looked at sailing victoria point etc but knowing people to show you the area is another thing.

Mike how much volume in your 275?
vando
vando
QLD
3419 posts
QLD, 3419 posts
9 Feb 2006 10:55am
Drjukka looks like we might have to check out Vict point some time.

Mark I beleave my 275 is about 90L
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
9 Feb 2006 11:26am
hi mark,

don't need the weight jacket, i got a beer gut for that. a downhaul winch for the sail and if all else fails, go the chicken strap. the north iq i have been using, (Cheers padi) is lightning fast in high winds. sucks a bit in light winds. i haven't really felt like i've hit it's max speed and i've used it for 5 years. it is beng retired now however. if you have a look at the gps formula top 6 you will see that 2 of the guys were on 7m+ sails. all the others on 10m+. the wider tail really helps keep the board under control. otherwise ig ot a smaller fin and a 7.5 iq if it really starts to blow. but the real thing i like about formula is how many times the wind speed can be achieved. light winds and high speeds.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
9 Feb 2006 12:47pm
I have a 7.8 IQ, it is very good in light winds on older style slalom gear maybe it just dosent suit formula?

The old beer gut hey... the aussie speedsailors secret weapon. I know i'm working on mine at the moment
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14969 posts
QLD, 14969 posts
9 Feb 2006 2:02pm
i think the 7.8 is a 97 model? definately a slalom cut if it is. the ones i got are the last of the iq range from the year they went to the warp. 2000 or 2001 model i think? has less draft than the earlier models because most guys were on bigger sails around then as formula had been introduced, so the 8.3 was a high wind cut. the iq i got lacks a bit upwind in the lighter wind speeds. an adjustable outhaul would help heaps. things have advanced even further since 2000 as you know so i am now upgrading. problem is no one on formula sails less than 10m anymore. but that would require a new mast and boom so a very expensive exercise.

was trying to find the year model of my iq's and stumbled across this great formula technique site. www.bluefinz.com/html/Technique/formula/index.htm

are you guys lightweights? i have only ewver sailed the 7.5 once.
mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
9 Feb 2006 4:10pm
I dont sail formula gear but lightweight no... got down to 83 last year now probably about 85-90kg. Before that have been as heavy as 110kg. For my sailing style/rig size I use 90kg is about perfect (enough weight to hold rigs down but dosent affect early planing). Was looking through an old magazine the other day and the weights of the pro's , heaps above 90kg or more significantly all the top guys above 90kg.

Cool article, didnt know not to twist body forward. Aerotech make formula sizes down to 9.0m if you can wait for this year's model due in march (Patrice has been working on this one so should be good for formula).
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