Forums > Windsurfing General

Neil Scheltema hit by speed boat

Reply
Created by skeltsy 1 month ago, 18 Mar 2019
lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:02PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cammd said..

I don't think that applies just to commercial vessels. I think a power vessel with restricted manoeuvring ie in a channel, has right of way over a sailing vessel crossing the channel.

Lotofwinds example of the broadwater channels on the GC would be an occasion where windsurfers crossing the channel would be obligated to give way to power




So power vessels in a boating channel has right of way to sail crossing it ? I always thought sail had right of way, but I always gave way as thought of it like it was the boaties designated lane that I was crossing, and if they don't give way or see me they could do damage, just made sense to show them some respect.

Mark _australia
WA, 18965 posts
20 Mar 2019 3:34PM
Thumbs Up

Talk of commercial vessels and their lack of manouevering is irrelevant in this instance. There is a handful of them doing 3 trips past in the afternoon.
This relates to the hundreds pleasure boats travelling along a 'set course' that varies from 100m to 1km wide.
Windsurfers cross at right angles hundreds of times a day.

It is incumbent upon the boat driver to see what is coming from the side, and as windsurfers can't speed up or slow down, the boat driver varies his speed to avoid them.
Simple. Boaties: you speed up to go in front of them, or slow until they pass in front of you then you speed up again. Duh
Overtaking vessel rule is irrelevant 90% of the time as its a right angle interaction

Ignorance of rules is no excuse particularly when everyone has to have an RST now. "I didn't know windsurfer would be doing 30kn....": is no excuse.

Then again if people crash cars at intersections when there are special lights to tell them what to do, what hope do we have on a busy waterway......

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:40PM
Thumbs Up

If you read his post he says its not just commercial it is all power in a channel ? If boaties think its the same ??? Seems to be people have different ideas of the rules, probably half the problem maybe.

Mark _australia
WA, 18965 posts
20 Mar 2019 3:46PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ if you read the post - he says with restricted manouvering - which is not the case here. They are able to give way just fine, but they are not.
Nothing to do with translation or interpretation.... it is power gives way to sail unless they just can't (narrow channel etc)

That is not applicable here, because they can give way.

If you are driving a boat in the middle of the day there is no excuse not to see a windsurfer coming at basically right angle to you at 30kn.
The windsurfer has obstructed vision to one side to some degree.

So whose fault is it..?

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 7:02PM
Thumbs Up

Like I said in previous post Im not saying whos at fault, wont fix his leg.
Cool, but seems different here. the channel is wide enough for boats to slow down or speed up ( is there a clears width or up to discretion) but all the kiters and windsurfers slow down or jybe or a few S turns etc. till the speed boat passes then enter their channel. Not saying that's right or wrong but how everyone seems to do it, just seems a hell of a lot safer that hoping the boatie has seen you and will stop for you, like you said they crash at traffic lights so no hope
And with people heading over your way there is probably more tourists on the water than locals.

Could it be an option to have a windsurf zone marked with buoys that boats cant enter to keep you guys safe?

cammd
QLD, 2131 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:08PM
Thumbs Up

I am not making any comment the the actual incident, I was just expanding on windsuferings post about giving way to commercial vessels

here's the rule

(b) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

I interpret that as needing to give way to a power vessel in a channel such as the Gold Coast Broadwater or where I sail at Manly in Moreton Bay I give way to boats entering or leaving the harbour in the narrow channel

Sparky
WA, 888 posts
20 Mar 2019 4:10PM
Thumbs Up

This is not a narrow channel. Everything gives way to the Rotto ferries a few times a day. Just like Sydney harbour and the Manly ferries. Otherwise motor gives way to sail.

petermac33
WA, 4883 posts
20 Mar 2019 4:13PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..


It is incumbent upon the boat driver to see what is coming from the side, and as windsurfers can't speed up or slow down, the boat driver varies his speed to avoid them.
Simple. Boaties: you speed up to go in front of them, or slow until they pass in front of you then you speed up again. Duh
Overtaking vessel rule is irrelevant 90% of the time as its a right angle interaction



Spot on. Nothing difficult about it really.

This is what happened in my case - proving it is another thing however.

Believe there's a 22.5 degree rule - if a sailing vessel hits a powerboat up to this angle then it is the sailing vessels fault.

In other words whilst overtaking a power boat.

22.5 degrees is not far from parallel and any injuries sustained are likely to be a lot less severe as it will be more of a glancing collision.

Very hard to believe a windsurfer could miss a power boat sailing close to parallel with him,never mind not hearing the obvious noise it would make.

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 7:30PM
Thumbs Up

Good to see you back on seabreeze peter,hope your heeling well and look forward to reading your insane posts in HW cause they are waaaaay saner than all others that post(argue) in there lol

cammd
QLD, 2131 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:37PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Sparky said..
This is not a narrow channel. Everything gives way to the Rotto ferries a few times a day. Just like Sydney harbour and the Manly ferries. Otherwise motor gives way to sail.


I don't know anything about the location or details so again not commenting on either incident but stating that sail has right over power as a blanket rule is not 100% correct. There are situations where power has right of way, navigating a narrow channel is one of those situations

Everyone at the Raceboard Nationals will remember the motor boat steaming through the start line abusing everyone just as the race started and we had to be recalled and start again.

He clearly thought he had right of way over sail as he was in a channel, turned out he was on the wrong side of the mark outside of the channel, the PRO wasn't silly enough to set the line across the channel but that's not the point. Despite 30 windsurfers communicating with hand signals and a few comments this guy thought he was in the right.

Sparky
WA, 888 posts
20 Mar 2019 4:46PM
Thumbs Up

Yeah, its a generalisation that motor gives way to sail. But a good starting point before the exceptions come in. The exceptions don't apply to the swan river.

Mark _australia
WA, 18965 posts
20 Mar 2019 5:04PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ +1


Nor to those who state "we don't know the rules, nobody does, so we just ignore them" - and then claim the moral highground in another thread.

Mark _australia
WA, 18965 posts
20 Mar 2019 5:07PM
Thumbs Up

Anyway apologies to Neil - a top bloke and windsurfing pioneer, with 90% of the boards at Pelican Pt being of his manufacture when I worked there in early 1990's - for me denouncing the troll in this thread that should be about Neil. Hope u get well, sail again soon, and that some good comes of this (boaties getting educated)

Same best wishes for PM33 .... hope this results in meaningful changes to boaties' attitudes

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:15PM
Thumbs Up

, PM me if you want to just argue heavy weather style, this thread is not for that I wont answer any of your trolling for arguments on this thread as you should have seen after you have already tried 3 times.

Imax1
VIC, 1777 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:21PM
Thumbs Up

Was it a power boat or a sailboat ?

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:32PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
Was it a power boat or a sailboat ?


Motor id say cause Im pretty sure he said he didn't even see a boat till he heard the roar of the motors.

Imax1
VIC, 1777 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:43PM
Thumbs Up

OK

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:44PM
Thumbs Up

Would it of made a difference in these 2 collisions if it was sail ?

Imax1
VIC, 1777 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:57PM
Thumbs Up

I don't know .
I have plenty of area to play in . And im usually reaching like most people.
The only rules that I know and therefore go by is , power boats should give way and I should have right of way if my right hand is at the front .
Still doesn't make any difference when a kiter is coming straight at me and doesn't make it obvious that he is going to move .. I always give way and then get grumpy.
Never had that problem with another windsurfer .. don't get me started.
Anyways , this threads ideals was about incidents from sailors vs boats in the Swan river which I never had a problem ,
The only problem with me and a boat ever was crashing next to one while trying an even cooler , sharper , faster jibe .

hardie
WA, 3994 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:04PM
Thumbs Up

Maybe we should leave this thread for news about Neil, and have discussions on avoiding collisions on a new thread?

Lot's of people thinking of you Neil, that arent seabreeze members

stroppo
WA, 468 posts
20 Mar 2019 9:33PM
Thumbs Up

Fingers crossed for a healthy recovery Neil

Bails
WA, 137 posts
21 Mar 2019 7:59PM
Thumbs Up

This thread alone has demonstrated the problem. What hope do we have when even the windsurfing community here can't agree on the rules? Clarity is needed, and it needs to be in legislation not ****ty Department of Transport how-to guides.

And then education, and rigorous enforcement, is needed. Like many folks here, I was a skiff sailor for many years and lost count of the number of collisions caused by impatient boat drivers who don't understand the speed or steering limitations of a fully powered sail craft. If these incidents happened on the road, there would certainly be an insurance claim against the at-fault party, and possibly a careless driving charge too. I have never seen a power boat driver even pay for repairs let alone cop a criminal charge.

Reflex Films
WA, 1357 posts
24 Mar 2019 11:07AM
Thumbs Up

Just a heads up Neil is fighting off infection right now and its a resl battle between antibiotics, his immune system and bacteria in his leg.

Apprently the doctors cleverly took cultures of what was in his leg from the injury so they can specifically target those bacteria with antibiotics.

But it is a massive battle right now.


He has had some temperature spikes and is riding the side effects of migraines, vomiting and generally feeling pretty terrible.

Having visitors has been wonderful but we think its time for some peace while he gets through this challenging phase. Which could last up to a week.

One he is through this we would LOVE to get visits going again as its really helpful mentally.

I will keep you all updated

lotofwind
NSW, 5016 posts
24 Mar 2019 8:01PM
Thumbs Up

That's good news. He is lucky this incident happened here in Aust. where we have such a great public health system and world class medical staff.

sinar63
3 posts
24 Mar 2019 6:09PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Reflex Films said..
Just a heads up Neil is fighting off infection right now and its a resl battle between antibiotics, his immune system and bacteria in his leg.

Apprently the doctors cleverly took cultures of what was in his leg from the injury so they can specifically target those bacteria with antibiotics.

But it is a massive battle right now.


He has had some temperature spikes and is riding the side effects of migraines, vomiting and generally feeling pretty terrible.

Having visitors has been wonderful but we think its time for some peace while he gets through this challenging phase. Which could last up to a week.

One he is through this we would LOVE to get visits going again as its really helpful mentally.

I will keep you all updated


Thank you for your update ...., lucky we are in Australia with some of the best doctors and specialists available. It appears Neil has been very lucky in this unlucky situation. A Swiss / Australian specialist I am sure he is in the best of hands. Amazing to read what method is in use by selecting the bacterias which Neil carried with him into the emergency room. Very clever. As a great surfer Neil knows that when you get hit by a big wave life will be a bit upsy turbie for a while. .....

king of the point
WA, 1814 posts
30 Mar 2019 4:50AM
Thumbs Up

Hectic ,,,speedy recovery

OESaustralia
SA, 264 posts
30 Mar 2019 10:36AM
Thumbs Up

Speedy recovery to full health Neil.

Reflex Films
WA, 1357 posts
30 Mar 2019 12:57PM
Thumbs Up

Neil is in surgery this morning- hopefully the last one for the full rebuild.

The good news at this stage is that infection seems to have been controlled and we are into rebuild and rehab mode.

It sounds like he will move to Bentley hospital for rehab mid week if all goes well. Thanks for everyones good thoughts and im sure visits would be much appreciated.

wally sailor
WA, 46 posts
30 Mar 2019 6:58PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Reflex Films said..
Neil is in surgery this morning- hopefully the last one for the full rebuild.

The good news at this stage is that infection seems to have been controlled and we are into rebuild and rehab mode.

It sounds like he will move to Bentley hospital for rehab mid week if all goes well. Thanks for everyones good thoughts and im sure visits would be much appreciated.



Great news, thanks for the update

Adam555
WA, 101 posts
3 Apr 2019 12:50PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Reflex Films said..
Neil is in surgery this morning- hopefully the last one for the full rebuild.

The good news at this stage is that infection seems to have been controlled and we are into rebuild and rehab mode.

It sounds like he will move to Bentley hospital for rehab mid week if all goes well. Thanks for everyones good thoughts and im sure visits would be much appreciated.


Hi Matt any update on Neil as was planning to drop by and say hello if he's up for visitors?

Thanks

adam



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Neil Scheltema hit by speed boat" started by skeltsy