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Not another board build thread ;-)

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Created by Mark _australia 4 months ago, 20 Jun 2018
Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
20 Jun 2018 5:39PM
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As promised, by popular demand....

New waveboard build. Inspired by the board that so many people reckon is the best they've ever ridden as it is so easy going early to plane and rides waves so beautifully regardless of erroneous rider input.
Interestingly, way more rocker than most. Made up for with big concave to flatten out a planing area.
Also, a slightly different fin arrangement to most quads so we'll see if I can make it work....

Anyway: 233 x 59, about 92L. Quad.

I was very lucky to score a few meters of the new s-glass called "SX" from Shapers pre-release. 90% stronger in tension than normal glass (for the same weight)!!!!! Not doing the whole board in it as I'm not going to spend that much and its going to be full wood and CK anyway. But for one layer over the bottom and a deck patch I reckon it will be sik :)


Blank hotwired and bottom shaped. Tomorrow is bagging the bottom corecell on.















Then as per my hijack of another thread, will be making slot boxes if the experiment one turns out well.
The slot is strong in the proto one, just waiting for my inserts to arrive that will be placed into stainless plate then cast in to the square holes. No more pulled inserts (ie: how Cobra should have made the damn things from the start)
But whether I make 5 or just buy them I dunno....




Why is it all out of order grr

Ratz, you're too fast man :)
vvvvvvvvvv

ratz
WA, 325 posts
20 Jun 2018 5:41PM
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photos or it didn't happen ?

decrepit
WA, 8767 posts
20 Jun 2018 6:42PM
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looks good Mark

shoodbegood
VIC, 671 posts
20 Jun 2018 9:53PM
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Hey Mark

Looking forward to this, ta for sharing.

Could you show us how you "hot-wired" the blank?

Do you mark the rocker line on both sides? how do you keep on the lines at the same time - 2 man job?

Is the white skin the s-glass? Is this gonna get vacuumed glued to the bottom of the blank ?

Sorry, lots of questions, but I've never understood this stuff !

decrepit
WA, 8767 posts
20 Jun 2018 8:43PM
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If you look at the 1st and 3rd pics you'll see a something yellowish on the rails. These are the rocker templates, and the hot wire follows them, it's only a one man job. The white stuff is the foam core, no sign of glass yet.

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
21 Jun 2018 11:00AM
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How much concave , from where to where and how did you shape it in ?

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 1:51PM
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^^^ That would be telling!!

Concave starts about 1600mm from tail, fades into double about 900mm, then vee starts about 650. Max concave is 5mm

As to how - surform and block. That's all I use

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 1:54PM
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So now we have it in the bag.

Balancing act that went very well, must be having a good day. My vac pump is an old spare, is slow and no controller to turn it on and off so I have to make sure I have zero leaks and still have to turn it on manually every 10mins or so. Too busy with boards to actually make a proper system but will have to one day..... one day.......
Thus, a nice fast resin system is a help so I don't have to stay in the workshop all bloody day!!!!
But then gotta work fast.

Got it in the bag and vac'd down then resin started to gel about few mins later..... phew

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
21 Jun 2018 4:14PM
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Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
^^^ That would be telling!!

Concave starts about 1600mm from tail, fades into double about 900mm, then vee starts about 650. Max concave is 5mm

As to how - surform and block. That's all I use


I wonder if a toned down version would work on a free-ride board for heavy me to venture out into small waves. I ride in some big wind swell ( sometimes over my head ) and would like to turn a little harder on the rolling waves without sacrificing too much early planing and speed. ???

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 2:39PM
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Yeah an easygoing freeride will normally have double concave, maybe some vee.

I have a shape3d file for a Rocket125, looking at it maybe thats why they are so popular for ocean sailing - vee in back half, double concs throughout. If you made the same board with about 10mm tail rocker it would be halfway between a FSW and an easy freeride. I have pondered doing just that......

RichardG
WA, 1941 posts
21 Jun 2018 3:37PM
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Nice one Mark. As a matter of interest which board is your inspiration ? Is that a a winger flyer swallow tail I see ?

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
21 Jun 2018 6:24PM
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Mark _australia said..
Yeah an easygoing freeride will normally have double concave, maybe some vee.

I have a shape3d file for a Rocket125, looking at it maybe thats why they are so popular for ocean sailing - vee in back half, double concs throughout. If you made the same board with about 10mm tail rocker it would be halfway between a FSW and an easy freeride. I have pondered doing just that......


That's sounds like the last board I made ( 5mm concaves spiraling to 5mm V ) , minus the rear rocker. 10 mm tail rocker sounds slow , but I suppose u can't have both.

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 5:33PM
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Select to expand quote
RichardG said..
Nice one Mark. As a matter of interest which board is your inspiration ? Is that a a winger flyer swallow tail I see ?



yes indeed. You are very very observant, I can't see a swallow tail in the pics...?
So I surmise you know what it is....
Bloody swallow, the hardest to vac bag around, hardest to get even and symmetrical grrrr

RichardG
WA, 1941 posts
21 Jun 2018 5:45PM
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Mark _australia said..


RichardG said..
Nice one Mark. As a matter of interest which board is your inspiration ? Is that a a winger flyer swallow tail I see ?




yes indeed.
So I surmise you know what it is....



No I don't. If it has channels in the tail, and was a thruster I could guess. Since it is a quad I don't know. Given the length it is bespoke in dimensions, perhaps customised and fit for your purposes. RIDER may have had input as anyone, among the handful, who has his quads, has been very positive. OES shapes are reminiscent of that but I can't say anything about their handling, although reputedly very good. Maybe it is a meld of a few boards, Tabou say Pocket or Da Bomb, being user friendly and others, do you wish to share ?

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 5:50PM
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It is Riders fave board also. :)
But its a production.



Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
21 Jun 2018 5:53PM
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So anyway getting more requests about the slotbox build.
Not saying I know what I am doing lol - it will hold a fin but as to how much cloth one needs around it.... ? hmmmm I dunno.

So anyway- a 3/8" plate (that's the hard part as everything in Oz is bloody 10mm) and some divinycell routed out. Glass, carbon good smear of extra strong filler and bung the plug in.....











The 3/4"square pipe was filled with resin and aluminium dust. ie: die cast ally basically.

For inserts there are numerous options, I figure best will be a stainless M5 nutsert into stainless plate then cast in with epoxy and filler.

So that first proto box was built a little light on, and has now been bonded to a very large piece of wood.
I will then insert a fin and try to break it. I figure if I can't, and the 'proper' versions have more fibre - then we're good.... (?)




normster
NSW, 125 posts
22 Jun 2018 10:55AM
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looks good,

i newbie to construction -

what is blank ? - polystyrene ?

what is typical cross section - you mentioned wood and Ck

thanks

Bertie
WA, 1283 posts
22 Jun 2018 10:27AM
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Great work Mark!
These threads make be very jealous now i no longer have a shed for shaping and tinkering, let alone the time to do so.

Keep those pictures rolling!

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
22 Jun 2018 1:26PM
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Select to expand quote
normster said..looks good, i newbie to construction - what is blank ? - polystyrene ? what is typical cross section - you mentioned wood and Ck

thanks


Hi mate yeah pretty conventional- EPS core, corecell vacuum bagged over that. Bottom is almost always about a couple of layers of 4oz glass and that does it. However, its the deck where we see so much variation in layups
I have chosen my deck lamination schedule based on what I am seeing last well in production boards. I'm no engineer expert so also basing it on how much material a few custom guys use also. Going to depend upon weighing it partway thru also, but I think I am on track as my calculating fibre and resin etc came out to the right sorta weight

So deck will be one layer glass, 0.6mm wood, 200gsm carbon/kevlar, then one layer glass again. There is of course lots of patches under the standing area and big mast track reinforcing patches. That is sorta similar to a few production boards but my addition of s-glass bottom should ensure its a bit tougher at same weight +/- 500g maybe

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
22 Jun 2018 4:07PM
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So today was the end of the nerve wracking part where you hope the bagging process did not change the rocker (it didn't) ..... and also whilst holding the rocker straight that the board didn't decide that it needs to go somewhere... anywhere ....and twist longitudinally.
I think it didn't.....

But it is the start of the process where u mark the centreline about another 20 bloody times......

So checked the lines, real nice. Needed a skim of filler in a few spots. More pencil work.....




Rail tuck marking, everyone hates rail shaping so put some time into the measuring....




Then as I got sick of drawing, I again ran my hands over the bottom - she has a curvy bum.... deep divots mmmmm



Photo does not do it justice, I can almost just see the water flow line thru the concs into the where the fin setup will be and I can feel it on a wave now. Gonna be schweet....

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
22 Jun 2018 6:44PM
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Is that carbon reo between the two foams ? For strength or flex ?

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
22 Jun 2018 6:34PM
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^^^ Yes..... strength
Boards break between the mast track and front foot, or between the feet.
100g addition there makes a major contribution.

100g and about $10 extra - that some companies seem to think we don't want......

I will also maybe do something else there that others don't - a bottom patch like the deck patch - but hoping it does not add too much weight.
Only 2oz cloth but it is another 150g ish so I am still pondering, as the SX glass on the bottom will be the shiznit so maybe I don't need the extra bit.....

R1DER
WA, 1145 posts
22 Jun 2018 8:45PM
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Ha ha as soon as I saw the nose outline on the first pic, I new, great choice! Great fin set up to. Im excited! !!
The bottom always seems to hold its shape, I find the deck the tricky bit as you need enough vacuum to pull the pvc around the rails, wth no trapped air bubbles under, yet not too much pressure to change the rocker, once the deck is on the shape is pretty much locked in. For the deck you'll be fighting the clock with fast resin. Have everything cut and measured ready to go in order, diagrams pinned up and a checklist as a reminder, even spare measured resin incase you knock or spill some, spare squeegee, knife, tape and scissors all ready to go as back up. Years ago I was putting a deck on in a 40c day just got it into the bag and we had a two hour power cut!
Lovin the thread. GO MARK GO !!

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
22 Jun 2018 8:52PM
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Nahh she'll be right.
Preformed deck foam with heatgun, pin-pricked to allow air and resin bleed (I figure its stronger too cos you get little pillarsof resin thru the hi density foam...) and I'll use the rocker spine again
Most of all, FFS Mike don't jinx me man!!!!!!!!

R1DER
WA, 1145 posts
22 Jun 2018 9:27PM
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By the the sounds of it you'll be right

Hey I really love the fins in this pic


Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
23 Jun 2018 4:46PM
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^^^ I know one thing Mike, it won't have a dark blue bottom. Bloody euro designs in WA summer....... = NFW

So today- long long deck shaping process.

First rail tuck added and then the apex marked as a "do NOT touch" line.

Then lots of rail bands marked, mowed foam, new bands marked etc.

Why ohhhh why does seabreeze reorder my pics backwards no matter which way I load the ****ers
So look bottom up maybe.....









decrepit
WA, 8767 posts
23 Jun 2018 5:47PM
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Hey Mark, if you put a bit of text after each pic, and load them one at a time, they come out in order.
My mate used to shape rails that way, but I just use the planner to make the lines, same thing each side.

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
23 Jun 2018 7:54PM
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Oh c, mon , u say the long long deck process but it is the fun part . You have done the tech side of things .
Am I light , fit and skilled enough to just take a little more off
ps: mabee I should figure out how a wire cutter works . My technique is to produce a whale killing 3m cubed foam dust. Even trying to bag that stuff small enough to bin it over two months would have annoyed anyone with a swimming pool in a 3km radious.

Mark _australia
WA, 18391 posts
23 Jun 2018 6:01PM
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Interesting you say that- I have gone away from the planer for a number of reasons
Yes it leaves a nice line but you are still eyeballing it and can maybe get farther and farther away from symmetrical without knowing it.
For a surfboard that has very little rail into deck work (quite flat across the deck) I think it works well and I just eyeball it.
For a windsurf board there is a lot more deck shape - this has no flat anywhere - so measuring a band will give a much more even result, easily. You can still do it with a plane, but geez its harder.... I'd rather not have to be so careful.

I also went away from the plane due to mess. If I hotwire the bulk off, then use the surform, it holds its own mess and you tap it into the bin as you go. I reckon I took off about 30L of foam today and have about 2L max on the ground. The plane throws that 30L all over the room .
Great if you have room to make a shaping bay ..... wellllllll, I do, but not the $$ to build it just yet.
Tried vacuum connected to the plane but the weight of the hose pulls it off axis and just gives bloody tired forearms haha

Also, I dunno if there is a speed benefit or not. Surform rips just as deep per pass I reckon (no proof just a guess lol)

EDIT-replying to Decrep.



Imax, its not the fun part. Deck is just mowing it down and easy, butI hate rails, everyone hates rails hahahha
Very happy I have them spot on though, apex to tuck is exactly as per templates.

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
23 Jun 2018 8:33PM
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I over used a planer with a very lightweight one inch or so corrugated super thin Bunnings hose into a 50 litre ind vac. It is so thinly and flexingly light that I didn't notice it apart from repeatedly tripping over it . All is perfectly well until the bin is full. It is even amusing for me , let alone a bystander , with a scooper, trying to transfer positive charged foam dust into a grounded plastic bag , ( or the other way around ) .
Its like trying to get a cat into Safeway bag. ...... don't ask !
I know it's messy , but I like getting jiggly with a planer.

Imax1
VIC, 1520 posts
23 Jun 2018 8:43PM
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So u go blank , corecell then 2 layers glass , why not blank glass corecell glass ?
I think I understand top toughness , but I know I can improve weight as I way over engineer.



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"Not another board build thread ;-)" started by Mark _australia