Forums > Windsurfing General

Not another board build thread ;-)

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Created by Mark _australia > 9 months ago, 20 Jun 2018
olskool
QLD, 2294 posts
19 Jul 2018 9:27PM
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Hey Imax1, sugar more aggressive. Still got my old 80s slalom. Sugar grip. Even though sanded n 30 years later itll still chew feet. Super grip. Agreed.

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
21 Jul 2018 6:43PM
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Coming along.....

Orange rails, then same orange thinned out over deck




Cut some pads.
Really happy with the black Clarke Rubber EVA75 I bought, it is a bit softer than the windsurfing stuff so with our normal EVA on top it feels very much like the dual density pads on many boards. I like
Just remains to be seen if their self adhesive is as good as the decent cut EVA for windsurf and SUP etc boards. Can always glue it if not...

Also very happy with Surf Sail Australia's EVA sheet.
If I buy hydroturf, yeah its twice as much are, but it is $170 or something to get it delivered here in WA. Surf Sail one looks to be the same, but its got stick back already and a half sheet is $80 delivered for enough to do 1.5 boards. Nice
I also like that it was cut on a bias like Starboard's old fishscale pads...... foot = easy in, hard out. Yeah you have to cut two sides which is annoying but worth the effort I think




forceten
1312 posts
22 Jul 2018 8:56AM
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Not using a gore Tex vent screw ?

I like the color and the pads look like rays

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
22 Jul 2018 12:07PM
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^^^ Hell no. I'd rather remember to open and close it each time, than have to remember to rinse it in fresh water, replace yearly (hoping the plastic does not break when trying to unscrew it) and still might have it pop. If you can't tell, I'm not a fan
Well I do get a bit of business from them though

The pads are just copied from a Fanatic quad. I love the bit that pokes out in front of the rear strap as that is a great aid to putting the foot there when jussst planing or really pushing upwind. I figured it does not add much weight, unlike the silly stomp pad wedge on my Goya and Quatro that does nothing lol

FormulaNova
WA, 13108 posts
22 Jul 2018 2:30PM
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Mark _australia said..
^^^ Hell no. I'd rather remember to open and close it each time, than have to remember to rinse it in fresh water, replace yearly (hoping the plastic does not break when trying to unscrew it) and still might have it pop. If you can't tell, I'm not a fan
Well I do get a bit of business from them though



Do Goretex vents really have a problem? What happens with them exactly?

decrepit
WA, 11079 posts
22 Jul 2018 3:22PM
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FormulaNova said..
Do Goretex vents really have a problem? What happens with them exactly?


Mechanically as Mark says, the hex top on them is held by about 0.5mm posts. The top should really be smaller and round, so you spanner grips the base. If there is any pressure on the top it breaks off and you're left with exposed goretex. Not sure how bad this is, except it can collect dust in between the weave, and possibly clog, or be exposed to wear.

When I was considering them for my boards I did some tests. mounted the vent in a tub, had a plastic tube on the outer side. Filled tub with water. No water came through, but I could easily blow bubbles into the tub. That seemed fine, until I reversed the vent, still no water came out.
BUT I could no longer blow through it!
The blurb says it only takes hours for it to restore it self, but this vent took months before I could blow air through it in any direction.

So as long as the core is bone dry it should work ok, as long as it doesn't get clogged with salt.

FormulaNova
WA, 13108 posts
22 Jul 2018 3:32PM
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decrepit said..


When I was considering them for my boards I did some tests. mounted the vent in a tub, had a plastic tube on the outer side. Filled tub with water. No water came through, but I could easily blow bubbles into the tub. That seemed fine, until I reversed the vent, still no water came out.



So, did you use them in the end?

CA seem to fit them as a matter of course and say they haven't had problems with them. Would a standard/normal vent plug be a better idea?

Are the goretex vents removable/replaceable?

decrepit
WA, 11079 posts
22 Jul 2018 4:52PM
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I didn't bother removing them from the 2 boards I put them in, but I didn't do any more.

Yes they just screw in like a normal bung, but it's a larger dia thread, a few of the guys are using stainless bolts from bunnings with an O ring instead.

They are a bit hard to get hold of, but I'm sure it's possible if you try hard enough.

I'm with Mark here, I'd much rather have an ordinary bung, but I'm not about to claim an ordinary bung is definitely better. I just think the odds are in it's favour.

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
22 Jul 2018 5:49PM
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My issue also is the numbers that have failed. Every one I have seen at 2-5 years old is blocked or the membrane popped (probably as it was blocked)

If you look at Swaylocks forums TONS of board builders in the States won't use them. They were the early adopters and now hate them.The theory is they block with crystallised salt (thus the recommendation to wash them EVERY session, and replace yearly .... that does not strike me as maintenance-free which they are sold as). Makes sense to me. Salt lumps will stop the air flow pretty fast.

Then we all know Goretex does not breathe when wet on both sides, even the manufacturer says that. Decrepit's experiment shows it too.
So once you have a tiny bit of damp in the board it will exponentially get worse.

The cap popping off / trying to remove a plastic bolt head is a very minor issue, but still PITA value if replacing every year (does anyone....?)

Anyway I believe they work wonderfully for a year or two but then most fail. The manufacturers don't care as its a 12mth warranty on your board.
If you don't believe me, ask the guy for whom I repaired 3 of his boards in one season. Fair enough black paint which is also retarded but anyway.... Or the guy's board that imploded and has 3" deep concaves either side of the stringer now, after I told him to piss off the Goretex now the board had been repaired and thus was now sealed. Hit cold water and sucked inwards badly.

Goretex = hiking jacket.

I know CA use them successfully but is it more to do with a quality custom board laminated well and they are NZ/ East coast thing usually, not seeing 70deg in the car every day for months and months before going sailing....? (Only theories.......)

geared4knots
TAS, 2635 posts
22 Jul 2018 8:15PM
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Bit of a worry as nearly
all sups and some sailboards that dont come out of Cobra use cortex valves.!!
Looks like in 2 to 3 years from sale there will be a lot of sups sucking in water? Or Damaged , if gortex not maintained, or board not treated right.

FormulaNova
WA, 13108 posts
22 Jul 2018 6:20PM
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Mark _australia said..


I know CA use them successfully but is it more to do with a quality custom board laminated well and they are NZ/ East coast thing usually, not seeing 70deg in the car every day for months and months before going sailing....? (Only theories.......)


I am getting a board made up, so I asked this question to them. They can use either if its a custom board.

I do wonder, as I have gotten pretty lazy with vent screws. I used to be paranoid about undoing them before plane trips, but the last few I have forgotten. That said, I think you are right, leaving a board in a hot car is probably more likely the problem than anything else.

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
22 Jul 2018 6:34PM
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Just install vent screw insert to rear of track, a tiny bit high if anything, and then when putting the base in the track it interferes if it is open (ie 3-5mm proud of the deck) , and reminds you to screw it in .

Dunno why that did not become a standard 20yrs ago.......

FormulaNova
WA, 13108 posts
22 Jul 2018 6:52PM
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Mark _australia said..
Just install vent screw insert to rear of track, a tiny bit high if anything, and then when putting the base in the track it interferes if it is open (ie 3-5mm proud of the deck) , and reminds you to screw it in .

Dunno why that did not become a standard 20yrs ago.......


I actually did that very thing on one of the boards that I modified. Some of my boards already have the vent there, but most don't.

The problem I had was I keep forgetting to undo the vent screw and have left them in for long periods of time. Maybe the Goretex vent is a good idea for people like me?

Imax1
QLD, 3705 posts
22 Jul 2018 9:04PM
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May I say something ?
I think all boards are not completely air tight.
So they will breath ( happily ) on there own.
I believe air vents ( any kind ) are for extreme variables only.
Air pressure air travel or extreme heat variants.
Apart from flying or leaving on roof racks or baking in extreamly hot car , I'd say leave plug alone.
Undoing a plug will wreck the o ring shape and it's seat seal and will let in salt and or sand into the equation.
= leaky board.
In all my wobbly years , I've initially reseated the o ring area , done it up tight and never touched it again and never had a fail.
Never flown or left a board on racks in blazing sun without a cover.

Imax1
QLD, 3705 posts
22 Jul 2018 9:10PM
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Now your getting close ,
you must be getting excited Mark ?

R1DER
WA, 1350 posts
23 Jul 2018 8:05PM
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Imax1 said..
May I say something ?
I think all boards are not completely air tight.
So they will breath ( happily ) on there own.
I believe air vents ( any kind ) are for extreme variables only.
Air pressure air travel or extreme heat variants.
Apart from flying or leaving on roof racks or baking in extreamly hot car , I'd say leave plug alone.
Undoing a plug will wreck the o ring shape and it's seat seal and will let in salt and or sand into the equation.
= leaky board.
In all my wobbly years , I've initially reseated the o ring area , done it up tight and never touched it again and never had a fail.
Never flown or left a board on racks in blazing sun without a cover.


Not sure I agree with you on this one imax
I believe with all the layers of glass resin pvc filler and paint boards are 100% air and water tight.
Use the air vent regularly, if the oring looks old. Change it, its rubber it can mold around grains of sand and has elasticity to maintain its shape for a while before it eventually dries out
It's probably the most least expensive part of the board less than 5 cents, yet the most important part.
Sure leaving it sealed may not visibly affect your board, but over a few years of daily expansion and nightly contraction 365 days a year, those tiny little polystyrene bubbles will separate, the board will probably delam years later after you've sold it on.
Mine hiss when I open after sailing, so I know its working.

forceten
1312 posts
23 Jul 2018 10:40PM
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Mark, umm, gore Tex vents, always different opinions.

The paint that you use , the orange , What is it ? We probably dont have it in the US, but interested ?

I took a screen shot of your pads, for future use. Endorsement forthcoming .

Imax1
QLD, 3705 posts
24 Jul 2018 9:23AM
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R1DER said..

Imax1 said..
May I say something ?
I think all boards are not completely air tight.
So they will breath ( happily ) on there own.
I believe air vents ( any kind ) are for extreme variables only.
Air pressure air travel or extreme heat variants.
Apart from flying or leaving on roof racks or baking in extreamly hot car , I'd say leave plug alone.
Undoing a plug will wreck the o ring shape and it's seat seal and will let in salt and or sand into the equation.
= leaky board.
In all my wobbly years , I've initially reseated the o ring area , done it up tight and never touched it again and never had a fail.
Never flown or left a board on racks in blazing sun without a cover.



Not sure I agree with you on this one imax
I believe with all the layers of glass resin pvc filler and paint boards are 100% air and water tight.
Use the air vent regularly, if the oring looks old. Change it, its rubber it can mold around grains of sand and has elasticity to maintain its shape for a while before it eventually dries out
It's probably the most least expensive part of the board less than 5 cents, yet the most important part.
Sure leaving it sealed may not visibly affect your board, but over a few years of daily expansion and nightly contraction 365 days a year, those tiny little polystyrene bubbles will separate, the board will probably delam years later after you've sold it on.
Mine hiss when I open after sailing, so I know its working.


If they are completely air tight , how come you get tiny pinhole bubbles , even when the plug is out , when re painting a board on a warming day ?
Its happened to me on a few boards.

Mainbreak
34 posts
24 Jul 2018 8:42AM
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Mate your logic has just cancelled out what you wrote earlier, the plug is out so there's no pressure build up, but your still gettin air bubbles????? maybe surface prep not done right.

Imax1
QLD, 3705 posts
24 Jul 2018 11:32AM
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Mainbreak said..
Mate your logic has just cancelled out what you wrote earlier, the plug is out so there's no pressure build up, but your still gettin air bubbles????? maybe surface prep not done right.



My logic may not be completely shot .
But it could be
Im not sure if the air came from the core or in between the sandwich . And its happened a few times .
Also the inner foam is borderline non porous . I wouldt think built up air pressure would quickly fizz through EPS . If undoing a vent plug and you can hear a hiss one of two things must be happening . Air must be easily rushing through the foam or more than likely there is a void between the core and shell somewhere .
As to my above dodgy logic i think EPS is more or less kind of airtight , ( with a hint of very slow porousness ) , so even with the plug out there can still be pressure build up elsewhere especially in the heating part of the day .
For that reason the rule is not to do sealing repairs on a heating day even with the plug open .

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
24 Jul 2018 11:14AM
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The air is coming from pinholes in the weave of the cloth where there is no resin. There will be many of them.
So the board is airtight, but if you paint it on a rising temp there is expansion of air inside that 0.2mm thick glass just from pinholes.
Then, even though they filled it and sanded back at factory, when sanding/repairing you will expose some.
To get a good job on a repair I could do up to 4 fills from bog, sand, then spray fill, sand then spot putty, sand, then spray fill again. Then its proper smooth but also no air coming out

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
24 Jul 2018 11:18AM
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Forceten, we don't have the right tinters for 2K paints here to achieve some of the brighter oranges that come on production boards.
I wanted brighter but just could not.
It is Coates Hire orange (look up the company) but with 10% canary yellow and 10% white added. Sprayed very thin over grey primer though, that gives it the rust / dirty orange look ..... it is actually brighter if done over white
I've done that as it is a very standard colour here - for when I ding it

R1DER
WA, 1350 posts
24 Jul 2018 8:09PM
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Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..

R1DER said..


Imax1 said..
May I say something ?
I think all boards are not completely air tight.
So they will breath ( happily ) on there own.
I believe air vents ( any kind ) are for extreme variables only.
Air pressure air travel or extreme heat variants.
Apart from flying or leaving on roof racks or baking in extreamly hot car , I'd say leave plug alone.
Undoing a plug will wreck the o ring shape and it's seat seal and will let in salt and or sand into the equation.
= leaky board.
In all my wobbly years , I've initially reseated the o ring area , done it up tight and never touched it again and never had a fail.
Never flown or left a board on racks in blazing sun without a cover.




Not sure I agree with you on this one imax
I believe with all the layers of glass resin pvc filler and paint boards are 100% air and water tight.
Use the air vent regularly, if the oring looks old. Change it, its rubber it can mold around grains of sand and has elasticity to maintain its shape for a while before it eventually dries out
It's probably the most least expensive part of the board less than 5 cents, yet the most important part.
Sure leaving it sealed may not visibly affect your board, but over a few years of daily expansion and nightly contraction 365 days a year, those tiny little polystyrene bubbles will separate, the board will probably delam years later after you've sold it on.
Mine hiss when I open after sailing, so I know its working.



If they are completely air tight , how come you get tiny pinhole bubbles , even when the plug is out , when re painting a board on a warming day ?
Its happened to me on a few boards.


I think there are miniscule bubble holes permanently traped in the solid resin and glass, surface tension prevents the paint going in to the holes, correct surface preparation will prevent this, also google water in compressors, when I spray I have 15m of air hose curled up in a bucket of ice and two water traps after this in the line. Your board is airtight and doesn't breathe.

forceten
1312 posts
24 Jul 2018 11:42PM
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FormulaNova said..

Mark _australia said..


I know CA use them successfully but is it more to do with a quality custom board laminated well and they are NZ/ East coast thing usually, not seeing 70deg in the car every day for months and months before going sailing....? (Only theories.......)



I am getting a board made up, so I asked this question to them. They can use either if its a custom board.

I do wonder, as I have gotten pretty lazy with vent screws. I used to be paranoid about undoing them before plane trips, but the last few I have forgotten. That said, I think you are right, leaving a board in a hot car is probably more likely the problem than anything else.


My Flikka had the goretex, Maui built custom by Bryan Cartwright has, My Mark Nelson custom does ,If i ever get to its my own custom will also.
I dont fault the traditional screw at all. I do laugh when someone says what if I forget to install it, my pat answer is do you forget your pants.

forceten
1312 posts
24 Jul 2018 11:45PM
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Mark _australia said..
Forceten, we don't have the right tinters for 2K paints here to achieve some of the brighter oranges that come on production boards.
I wanted brighter but just could not.
It is Coates Hire orange (look up the company) but with 10% canary yellow and 10% white added. Sprayed very thin over grey primer though, that gives it the rust / dirty orange look ..... it is actually brighter if done over white
I've done that as it is a very standard colour here - for when I ding it


Cheers. I use a marine single stage paint, for tint I'm not picky, any enamel based.

Mark _australia
WA, 21342 posts
27 Jul 2018 2:01AM
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All finished :)

Not happy with the colour dye spraycan colour on the footpads, email sent to manufacturer. Funny how their 'guaranteed reply in 24hrs' has not eventuated when it is a complaint lol

Unsure about the orange over deck, bit 1970's vibe there, but it does not look so Norman Gunstan's cardigan colour in person

I did at times wonder why I was making a small board that I will use least, only at the peak of the season in 6mths time hahaha but looks like there might be a decent front next week so cross fingers.....









Overall, happy :)

HotBodMon
NSW, 470 posts
27 Jul 2018 7:30AM
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Nice work Mark, I would be petrified of dinging it myself.
Reckon it would look good on the water with one of these


seanhogan
QLD, 3396 posts
27 Jul 2018 7:58AM
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neat !!!! is that the offical "mark_oz board company" logo ??

and what's with the big scratch across the board ???

sausage
QLD, 4870 posts
27 Jul 2018 12:25PM
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seanhogan said..
neat !!!! is that the offical "mark_oz board company" logo ??

and what's with the big scratch across the board ???


Here's Mark's new logo I quickly whipped up......you're welcome Mark ;-)

BTW - nice work too




HotBodMon
NSW, 470 posts
27 Jul 2018 12:52PM
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M_oz quito





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"Not another board build thread ;-)" started by Mark _australia