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Old meets new

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Created by ZoltanL A week ago, 3 Jan 2019
ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 1:34AM
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Now using foil on 2009 RRD X-Fire 122L and 1990s Speed 250L race board.

I just needed to figure out how to use a 2017 foil designed for a deep Tuttle box on a 2009 board with a standard (shallow) Tuttle box that wasn't designed to take the load of a foil.

The solution* (*you can just buy a board with deep Tuttle box and get foiling) is to redistribute the load away from the standard Tuttle box and create a load-bearing 'sandwich' - to spread the load between the top (deck) and bottom of the board.

This should work for all foils with a flange - such as Starboard GT, Slingshot & Fanatic. It's a new option for people with older boards still in great condition and perfect for foiling, but limited by having a standard Tuttle box.

Note: It won't work on foils without a flange - such as Neil Pryde Alu Flight or Starboard racing foils.

This 'sandwich' method also works well with longboards with open centreboard boxes such as the 25-30 year old Speed 250L race board from the 1990s. You just need 150mm long M6 bolts.











joe windsurf
1418 posts
3 Jan 2019 10:56PM
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i like it - can we have a video in action on the raceboard ??

oops - should this be in the foil section ??

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 4:47AM
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Select to expand quote
joe windsurf said..
i like it - can we have a video in action on the raceboard ??

oops - should this be in the foil section ??


Thanks, now copied over to foil section. z

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
4 Jan 2019 5:20AM
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ZoltanL, I'm a Speed RB Nut. Sweet looking board youve got. Been wanting to do just what you have done. Does it bolt thru rear of cb slot? AWESOME!!! I WANT ONE

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 7:45AM
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Thanks Olskool. I've had it 25+ years and love it still. It bolts through anywhere along the cb slot. You just need long enough M6 bolts. The longest I've found so far are 150mm which covers the rear half of the cb slot. 180mm bolts will cover the deeper front half. But positioning at rear probably gives better flight results.

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
4 Jan 2019 8:29AM
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ZoltanL PMd you.

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 2:11PM
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Thanks. Got it & PMd you back.

515
20 posts
4 Jan 2019 12:42PM
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Yes really keen to hear how the raceboard foils reason being that I need a longboard with centreboard to get off and back to shore then I can sail from my local beach. Once your 2-300m from the beach you are in the windline.

Good luck

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 4:44PM
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Thanks 515.
I've only had the foil about 3-4 weeks so still learning.

Re: the RB - the foil mast replaces the centreboard - which isn't needed. It goes upwind nicely.

I've had it in 20 knots with 8.5m sail and it's like a huge race horse that wants to get up and fly - but I'm keeping the nose down at this time to avoid flight.

i only planned to get extra lift from the wings to lift more of the board out of the water. I'm very happy planing mighty fast with a bit of rear contact for stability & safety. It's not a slalom board eater in optimal slalom conditions. But in marginal conditions and an 8.5-11m RB sail, it will $&@?! DESTROY THEM and anything in its way!!!
Stay tuned.
Zoltan

Imax1
VIC, 1613 posts
4 Jan 2019 5:53PM
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I love what your doing there with your RB
If your not wanting to fly but get lighter and faster In marginal winds would you need the mast as long ?
If the mast was say only 250mm long and you breached , the horrid nosedive would be small enough for a RB to handle .
I have a RB that is sooo jealous .
Anyone selling a cheap foil with a bent or broken mast ??? I would also love to give this idea a go .
I definitely think your onto something here Zoltan

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 7:49PM
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Thanks Imax1.
mast height gives you flexibility and room to grow and expand your flying range.

Low flight is just a learners thing like having L plates and restricted to 80km/h. Now I've felt it's stability at speed, I can make gentle adjustments to raise flying height. The good thing about the RB vs X-Fire is the X-Fire is a highly strung, F1 car, early to fly and subject to minor foot pressure changes. The RB is exact opposite - think jumbo jet taking off. Great stability & inertia & gentle transition to (low) flight. So slow & steady changes on the RB vs rapid response from the Xfire less than half the size.

I actually have 5 boards to test the foil on and am loving every minute of learning how they all behave. And it's quite perverse but whats more fun & interesting to me is testing the foil on 3 great boards that weren't designed with foiling in mind. It's like you know the smaller boards with deep Tuttle will work fine and it's just rider skill level that makes the major difference. With my other 3 boards, they should all be a handicap to good foiling and there are many unknowns... which makes it all the more exciting!

Imax1
VIC, 1613 posts
4 Jan 2019 8:34PM
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It so makes sense Zoltan.
Perhaps a long board is easier to learn to fly. It planes earlier and much smoother.
Please keep us posted on your findings.

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 8:39PM
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See the other comments on the Foiling forum too.
There are already deep Tuttle to Tuttle adapters, but still no good on a RB.

Imax1
VIC, 1613 posts
4 Jan 2019 9:11PM
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If a foil physically works on a RB that's all I need to know.
I can make any box system work in my CB slot .
Making a flanged deep Tuttle ,( or any box) to fit snugly in a CB slot is right up my ally. And a top lid to clamp it all together. It will be solid. One-off engineering is what I do.
I have one problem however , I've never foiled .

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
4 Jan 2019 9:46PM
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Imax1, foil being on an RB. Wouldnt the crashdive be LESS of a crash? All that bonnet out the front would touch the water earlier into the dive? Lessening the angle? Making it less of a crash.? Or almost no crash.... Gimme a go on this thing.!

joe windsurf
1418 posts
4 Jan 2019 8:41PM
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have mean monitoring foiling and longboards for some time now
was hoping exocet would come out with more on the idea
without the two foil requirement ...



ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
4 Jan 2019 11:47PM
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Ready for further testing tomorrow - in 20 knots.
www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1264602613690771/

joe windsurf
1418 posts
5 Jan 2019 4:07AM
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did you make this foil adapter kit or ???

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 7:23AM
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Not directly - but indirectly yes at home. Just joined some dots and made it from parts that should be readily available to all - mostly automotive.

im still trying to find the source of the deck flange. Just need to find the manufacturer's ID code.

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 7:58AM
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Video taken this morning gives a better view.

www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1264783483672684/.

*I can't upload video to forum, so uploading to FB then putting link here. Hope this is ok.

olskool
QLD, 942 posts
5 Jan 2019 7:10AM
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Zoltan, looking forward to hearing / seeing the results. Frothin actually. Have wanted to do this since foils hit the market. Great work mate.

515
20 posts
5 Jan 2019 5:54AM
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Hi Zoltan,
Awesome
I have an exocet windsup 11'8", I've seen another local with a foil with the powerbox fitting and he was saying he needed to use centreboard to go upwind in light wind. These boards have the steptail so the finbox is further forward and he hasn't had wind to foil yet.
With the foil in the centreboard slot it will get upwind and back to shore in offshore breeze.
To me I like your setup with the foil at the back of centreboard slot and mast track back (maybe not all back).
Seeing the foil at the front looks interesting to see you will be experimenting with different positions - and looking forward to hearing results.

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 10:50AM
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Hi 515,
foil position will be further back for higher flight. As shown here, it's like Ben Lexcen's "Winged Keel" design that won Australia the America's Cup in 1983. This full-forward position was just verifying the M6 bolt length needed for the deeper front half of CB slot (150mm). The back end only needs 130mm bolts.

515
20 posts
5 Jan 2019 8:54AM
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Hi Zolton,
Yes back looks better but adjustability along the length is great to try different positions.
Very keen on America's cup living in Auckland having seen Team NZ foiling in there past campaigns.

Hi Joe,
On longboard with foils, I'm wondering how a current RSX would go, its shorter but still high volume. If the Olympics are going foiling then they are going to need more volume than the RSX convertible of 120 liter! Starboard have a 177 liter foil raceboard.

Remember when you talk Olympic venues the windsurfers will have to sail out in light offshore breeze to get to race course.
Where a non Olympic windsurf foil may have better locations to allow for different wind directions. Or even different locations dependent on wind directions.

Cheers Greg

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 5:01PM
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Sat. 5.1.19 RB + foil update.
www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1265026330315066/

AusMoz
QLD, 991 posts
5 Jan 2019 5:01PM
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Loving your work Zoltan!!!!!

No tech expert but i thought of this years ago after watching the Moths racing at lake cootharaba and if their foils could be used for windsurfing pretty much what Exocet has done in the video.

Probably not faster but smoother and easier to ride. The moths did not cope to well in 20knots plus winds. Basically do we need the same setup as the moths?

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 6:27PM
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Select to expand quote
AusMoz said..
Loving your work Zoltan!!!!!

No tech expert but i thought of this years ago after watching the Moths racing at lake cootharaba and if their foils could be used for windsurfing pretty much what Exocet has done in the video.

Probably not faster but smoother and easier to ride. The moths did not cope to well in 20knots plus winds. Basically do we need the same setup as the moths?


Thanks AusMoz,
At this early stage I don't think 2 foils are necessary on longboards like my Speed. It got up pretty high today just once before I brought it back down, and that was AFTER the wind dropped a fair bit and I bagged out my sail.

so, that's "proof of concept" that my RB can indeed fly on the foil. I just need to learn to control it in flight mode :)

ZoltanL
ACT, 89 posts
5 Jan 2019 9:47PM
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Select to expand quote
ZoltanL said..
Sat. 5.1.19 RB + foil update.
www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1265026330315066/







Went full-on "Dalek Bazooka" on this bolt failure and replaced bent 150mm & broken 130mm cheap galvanised M6 hex head bolts with 170mm high tensile steel M6 cup head bolts. 150mm bolts are all that's needed, so I might try to exchange these 170mm ones I bought yesterday.

lotofwind
NSW, 4828 posts
5 Jan 2019 11:37PM
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The future of windsurfing has arrived. Foiling has given the sport a new lease of life. There is way more topics and conversation in the foiling forum than the old school windsuffering general forum, maybe time to close down the general forum?? No use whipping a dead horse. lol

Mark _australia
WA, 18602 posts
5 Jan 2019 9:22PM
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^^^ foiling that windsurfers did 30yrs ago?

lotofwind
NSW, 4828 posts
6 Jan 2019 12:49AM
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Yep, that's the one, which they copied from the water skiers lol. and now that its popular with surfers and kiters its bringing new life to windsurfing, its the only thing that's progressed in poledancing in 20 years so its a good thing, the new craze just might keep windsurfing from completely dying out. Its seems a lot, majority of polers, that havent progressed to kitesurfing anyways, have progressed to the new challenge of foils, its a good thing



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"Old meets new" started by ZoltanL