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Old meets new

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Created by ZoltanL A week ago, 3 Jan 2019
olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 11:37AM
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The block idea (HD EVA??) n big bolts should be the winner. Itll spread the load superbly thru the hull. But if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.
Now if i could just find a cheap 2nd hand suitable size foil setup. Keen to give this a thrash myself. ANYONE??

olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 11:44AM
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Imax1, bingo. Tuttle box would be about right size. Eva on sides n top for just a lil give. Im a build it industrial strength kinda guy.
Whats another .5kg on an RB...

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 4:11PM
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.I want to try it too

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 5:36PM
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olskool said..
Imax1, bingo. Tuttle box would be about right size. Eva on sides n top for just a lil give. Im a build it industrial strength kinda guy.
Whats another .5kg on an RB...




What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 6:38PM
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ZoltanL said..


olskool said..
Imax1, bingo. Tuttle box would be about right size. Eva on sides n top for just a lil give. Im a build it industrial strength kinda guy.
Whats another .5kg on an RB...






What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?



If u hit ground u will damage board and or foil. I think you want the support in the tuttlebox like normal fin where all the bolt really does is stopping it falling out. Most of the forces are on the locked in tapered sides. The bolts are really to keep it wedged in the box and hopefully the weak point before destroying the board.

olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 5:38PM
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ZoltanL said..
What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?

Might be hard to find such parts. Leave the original 6mm n add the larger ones where reqd. So you keep its multi board fit. Got a job for ya Imax1,youve got a lathe. Spin up some brass inserts for Zoltan.

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 6:42PM
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olskool said..


ZoltanL said..
What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?



Might be hard to find such parts. Leave the original 6mm n add the larger ones where reqd. So you keep its multi board fit. Got a job for ya Imax1,youve got a lathe. Spin up some brass inserts for Zoltan.



Ill do u a deal olskool , ill make the nuts for free if u fix the broken board

And ... then ill get a cheap bent foil

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 7:04PM
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Imax1 said..


olskool said..




ZoltanL said..
What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?





Might be hard to find such parts. Leave the original 6mm n add the larger ones where reqd. So you keep its multi board fit. Got a job for ya Imax1,youve got a lathe. Spin up some brass inserts for Zoltan.





Ill do u a deal olskool , ill make the nuts for free if u fix the broken board

And ... then ill get a cheap bent foil



OK... let's all stop... pause... breathe... do a stocktake:

what i'm hearing is the Tuttle box & bolts are NOT FAILING... but instead are doing exactly what Mr Tuttle designed them to do - which is act as a kind of 'fuse' or safety valve that trips to protect the valuable assets - which are the board & foil.

So broken bolts are a sign of exceeding stress tolerances of the Tuttle 'protection system'.

No point trying to stop or undermine this system. It's all just ego and pride.

I'm sure it's the sharp banking turns that concentrate HUGE pressure on just 2 skinny bolts. Pressure from 3.8m & 18kg Board with long bonnet... countered by my 90kg lump hanging out wide to put leverage on the foil while doing 15-20 knots!

Easy solution is don't do stupid things: instead, just grab the X-Fire with s 50cm Slalom fin and blast EVEN FASTER (up to 38knots I've read) without risk of destroying my gear.

i've achieved what I wanted in attaching the foil to different non-foil boards. Now it's time for some common sense in deciding WHEN to use them.

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 7:32PM
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Its OK Zoltan , we know each other .
The fuse or safety valve is only when you hit ground.
All the other forces , no matter how extreme or heavy you are should have no pressure on those bolts . None ! OK maybe a smidge in drag through water only. If used in a Tuttle box.
In a Tuttle fin to box connection the tight parallel sides take all the sideways pressure , not the bolts . In a fin or foil this is where the forces are.
The angle on the ends of the fin / box keep the fin / foil parallel to the board. So only a small amount of tension is needed on the bolts .
What your doing is relying on every force , sideways , back , twisting and imaginary , hanging on to two weeny 6mm threads .
So , I believe , if the foil is mounted in a Tuttle box there should be no problem with your weight or radicalness and the 6mm bolts will be fine.


olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 7:07PM
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Im with Imax1. Agreed. Support the bolts n itll work fine. When in a tuttle board the bolts are shortish n finbox n head take all the loads. On your RB you are asking a bolt 3times the length n same diameter to do the same job. Big ask when theyre not supported over 150mm or more. Theyd be flexin n wiggling everywhere. That CB casing about 30mm wide from memory.
Zoltan theres a Tuttle box on gumtree $20 from down your way.

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 8:13PM
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Imax1 said..

olskool said..



ZoltanL said..
What about replacing the 2 x M6 dowel nuts in the Tuttle box with M8, 10 or 12 size and just using larger diameter bolts ?




Might be hard to find such parts. Leave the original 6mm n add the larger ones where reqd. So you keep its multi board fit. Got a job for ya Imax1,youve got a lathe. Spin up some brass inserts for Zoltan.




Ill do u a deal olskool , ill make the nuts for free if u fix the broken board

And ... then ill get a cheap bent foil


... a cheap bent foil will let you sail in beautiful circles without even trying

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 8:21PM
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Imax1 said..
Its OK Zoltan , we know each other .
The fuse or safety valve is only when you hit ground.
All the other forces , no matter how extreme or heavy you are should have no pressure on those bolts . None ! OK maybe a smidge in drag through water only. If used in a Tuttle box.
In a Tuttle fin to box connection the tight parallel sides take all the sideways pressure , not the bolts . In a fin or foil this is where the forces are.
The angle on the ends of the fin / box keep the fin / foil parallel to the board. So only a small amount of tension is needed on the bolts .
What your doing is relying on every force , sideways , back , twisting and imaginary , hanging on to two weeny 6mm threads .
So , I believe , if the foil is mounted in a Tuttle box there should be no problem with your weight or radicalness and the 6mm bolts will be fine.




Ok, so it would end up like a double Tuttle box head, 2 deep not wide - with the 2nd box (wrapped in 1mm EVA) forming the block around the bolts inside - and connecting with - the sides of the CB slot. This is workable.

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 8:45PM
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Done some resurch. Surfsail Australia sell Tuttle boxes, $39.
They are 44mm wide . I would machine the sides down to fit snuggly in CB slot. Leaving a 5mm step on the bottom which will stop the box sliding up . If the slot is 30mm it would leave a step of 7mm each side . I would make an alloy plate that slides over the box and would work like a big flange. This would work if the slot is no smaller than 36mm ish.
You could then use your top clamp plate .
I would machine the box and make the plate as a love job, no biggie. And no responsibility
Would like to see how it works

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 8:52PM
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Imax1 said..
Done some resurch. Surfsail Australia sell Tuttle boxes, $39.
They are 44mm wide . I would machine the sides down to fit snuggly in CB slot. Leaving a 5mm step on the bottom which will stop the box sliding up . If the slot is 30mm it would leave a step of 7mm each side . I would make an alloy plate that slides over the box and would work like a big flange. This would work if the slot is no smaller than 36mm ish.
You could then use your top clamp plate .
I would machine the box and make the plate as a love job, no biggie. And no responsibility
Would like to see how it works



Imax1... That would be AWESOME!!!

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Friday , 11 Jan 2019 9:00PM
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PM you in 3,2,1

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Friday , 12 Jan 2019 12:42AM
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Sat 12.1.2019 New Videos:

1. Speed 250L Race Board + Foil - Passing yacht:

www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1269479619869737/

2. Short flight & touchdown at high speed on race board with foil:

www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/126954832986

3. Search & Destroy on Speed 250L race board with foil:

www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1269562449861454/

515
20 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 7:16AM
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Hi Zoltan,

Great video 1 but 2 & 3 says content not found.
Obviously late night editing footage.
Keen to see the flight then touch down.
I agree with using the an actual deep tuttle box machined to fit the center board slot.
Many years ago I was a epoxy board builder, thinking with some plastic and mould release wax you could make custom flanges.
Cheers Greg

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 10:44AM
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515 said..
Hi Zoltan,

Great video 1 but 2 & 3 says content not found.
Obviously late night editing footage.
Keen to see the flight then touch down.
I agree with using the an actual deep tuttle box machined to fit the center board slot.
Many years ago I was a epoxy board builder, thinking with some plastic and mould release wax you could make custom flanges.
Cheers Greg



Hi Greg,
Just uploaded vids 2 & 3 to YouTube. The short low flight & touchdown are at 1:15 to 1:17 in video 2; it's the part where everything goes completely silent for a few seconds before the obvious touchdown on the long bonnet at 1:17. Very gentle & smooth :D
cheers, Zoltan

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 10:54AM
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Sat 12.1.2019 New Videos: [UPDATED LINKS AT 11:00am Saturday]

1. Speed 250L Race Board + Foil - Passing yacht:

www.facebook.com/100004231339520/posts/1269479619869737/

2. Short flight & touchdown at high speed on race board with foil:



3. Search & Destroy on Speed 250L race board with foil:



ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 1:38PM
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Enami92 said..
if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.





Hey Enami92...
I'm with you on that one so will do my best to avoid anything big like a yacht, the water police... or a giant carp - and try to use a stray/rogue/AWOL inflatable SUP as a proxy airbag whenever possible LOL

I did some repairs a few years ago after my old tie down straps broke and the epoxy carbon board flew off the roof racks, did a few twists and summersaults in my rear view mirror, and landed on (and wrecked) its US fin box and put some major cracks in the board... and then dragged along the road on its sharp rails... thus wrecking them as well. I'm hoping any water crash won't be quite as bad!

515
20 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 10:53AM
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"The short low flight & touchdown are at 1:15 to 1:17 in video 2; it's the part where everything goes completely silent for a few seconds before the obvious touchdown on the long bonnet at 1:17. Very gentle & smooth :D"

Hi Zoltan,

Thanks for that, the silence!
As you said when your not foiling you are getting additional lift to plane faster than without the foil.

Cheers Greg

olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 1:09PM
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Enami92 said..
if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.


Couldve sworn i wrote this a few posts ago. Ahh well always a copycat someplace stalkin around.
Back to the foilin design.

ZoltanL
ACT, 86 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 3:22PM
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515 said..
"The short low flight & touchdown are at 1:15 to 1:17 in video 2; it's the part where everything goes completely silent for a few seconds before the obvious touchdown on the long bonnet at 1:17. Very gentle & smooth :D"

Hi Zoltan,

Thanks for that, the silence!
As you said when your not foiling you are getting additional lift to plane faster than without the foil.

Cheers Greg


Spot on Greg. The comparison is against itself & similar older style RBs with normal fin (i.e. without a foil). I cop a bit of friendly teasing here from guys who seem to think this isn't working 'cos I'm not up high out of the water flying on my 18kg Speed RB like they are on their 6-9kg short wide formula & dedicated foil boards. But I even blew a formula board off as the rider only had a smallish sail. Have the footage, but not so important to share.

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 4:36PM
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olskool said..

Enami92 said..
if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.



Couldve sworn i wrote this a few posts ago. Ahh well always a copycat someplace stalkin around.
Back to the foilin design.


Or dimentia, u are 50 u ol fart

olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 4:40PM
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Imax1 said..

olskool said..


Enami92 said..
if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.




Couldve sworn i wrote this a few posts ago. Ahh well always a copycat someplace stalkin around.
Back to the foilin design.



Or dimentia, u are 50 u ol fart

50???? Nah nah nah Not me. Im a young whipper snapper at 48. Most of the GB crew are 10yrs my senior

515
20 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 5:35PM
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Young is an attitude-how many people do you know that old at 40!?
I amit I haven't done a forward loop since I've turned 50 and now I'm 53 but yes I will be foiling within the next 6 months.
Cheers Greg

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 8:38PM
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olskool said..

Imax1 said..


olskool said..



Enami92 said..
if you hit anything id hate to see the resulting mess. All repairable though with a bit of creative glassin.





Couldve sworn i wrote this a few posts ago. Ahh well always a copycat someplace stalkin around.
Back to the foilin design.




Or dimentia, u are 50 u ol fart


50???? Nah nah nah Not me. Im a young whipper snapper at 48. Most of the GB crew are 10yrs my senior


That's why you faster , wait till u need a Zimmer frame on your windsurfer , that'll slow u down .
I'll fit u one for free

Imax1
VIC, 1607 posts
Saturday , 12 Jan 2019 8:46PM
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515 said..
Young is an attitude-how many people do you know that old at 40!?
I amit I haven't done a forward loop since I've turned 50 and now I'm 53 but yes I will be foiling within the next 6 months.
Cheers Greg


Windsurfing has to be the best old fart elixir, im now 51 , smarter , yes , wiser , maybee a little , fitter , no way !
Im sill working on " old age an treacherous beats youthfulnes any day " , that's what my old fart father in law told me .

515
20 posts
Sunday , 13 Jan 2019 5:11PM
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Hi Zoltan,

Just laugh back at the mockers of your setup with speed raceboard with modified deep Tuttle box within the centreboard slot.

Everyone needs to approach "time on water" value , Enjoy the great moments if life, cheers

olskool
QLD, 940 posts
Monday , 14 Jan 2019 4:03AM
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Z, the tuttle wont work. Ive measured my SR250L CB slot at only 18.5mm wide. Back to the cutting board , err drawing board.



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"Old meets new" started by ZoltanL