Surfing or Sailing

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JJay
JJay
NSW
81 posts
NSW, 81 posts
21 Dec 2008 6:36pm
Wow, everyone has been really generous with info, Thanks.
A huge spread of different experiences prior to windsurfing.

Sailing (all types standard boats as well as loads of weird and wacky stuff)

Surfing longboards, shortboards, boogieboards, Sup's, (airmats back in the old days)

Wakeboarding, skiing,

Motorbikes, BMX, Mountain bikes, skateboards,

Cricket, Rugby, fishing,

Tv, playstation, even the odd ex-dancer or two.

Drug abuse!!!!!

Not forgetting our hardcore hero who's early days were spent studying the dark arts of the Ninja assassins! LOL (you crack me up windwarning) I bet your Ninja training helps you get heaps of chicks too.

Next question,,,,,,,

Which way is better or more effective to learn or get into windsurfing?
The SURF APPROACH,
A 140L freeride board, no centerboard, with 5m and 7m sails.
(obviously emphasis on planing asap, with faster board speeds, while point of sail is basic reaching across the wind for a beginner. Harness and strap work as well as Gybing and Tacking, yet difficult to sail effectively off plane)

OR

The SAILING APPROACH,
A 180 to 200L longboard with retractable centerboard, again with maybe 5m and 7m sails.
(emphasis on learning to Gybe and Tack as well as point upwind and downwind while NOT planing, slower board speeds, also with the possibility of learning to plane in the straps and practice harness techniques. Yet difficult to learn and master full planing gybes)

The advantages and disadvantages of both with regards to,,

Ease of learning
Safety
Cost
Location.

Some more feedback?





Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
21 Dec 2008 7:28pm
My wife is learning windsurfing now. She has neither a sailing or surfing background. What holds her back the most is lack of sailing knowledge. We only sail on flat water in light winds so surf knowledge is largely irrelevant.

In relation to whats the best way to sail I read a column in the American Windsurfing magazine talking about this very issue. They termed it learning to sailboard vs learning to windsurf.

I can't recall all of the details but the writer proposed to get people to learn how to windsurf, that is learn on a shortish board, starting with beach starting, rather than uphauling and teaching waterstarts as one of the first skills.

The advantanges the writer suggested about this method was the learner would not have to learn how to balance on a board to uphaul, a skill the author believed was very hard to do, boring and really a waste of resources. He also believed teaching the learner planing skills earlier will make encourage them to keep windsurfing. He felt the biggest issue learners face is going from displacement to planing sailing.

My thoughts are coloured by my own experience teaching my wife and the conditions we have in NSW. I'm teaching with an RRD Easy Rider. This board is very wide and very stable. Its extremely easy to stand on and get your balance. The board won't tip over unless you walk right up to the edge. The board has a centrefin that gives the board direction and stops that sideways drifting effect you get on shortboards until you get a bit of forward momentum.

So boards like this do not make standing up to uphaul a boring, hard task. You learn to do it in about 5 minutes or less as I did teaching my 13 year old nephew how to windsurf today. After around 10 minutes he could uphaul sail about 50 meters, turn around with a rope tack and sail back to where he started. He thought it was easy. Looks like the Easy Rider lived up to its name.

The weather is the determinant factor with windsurfing. Today the wind where we were was about 5 knots. If the beginner is learning planing skills then there would be little time here when they could actually practise those skills. Many skills learned in lighter winds are transferrable to stronger winds sailing. Teaching this way is building up a frame of skills that can be extended over time to reach higher levels. This method of teaching is recognised as one that is effective for many students.

Confidence is also a factor when learning. Everything happens much quicker in strong winds and power in the sail would be difficult for a learner to deal with unless they are extremely able.

In relation to costs, if the student wants to progress to shortboard sailing, and the fact is most people windsurfing do want to do this, then teaching the shortboard method may advantageous. The gear they are using will be useful to them when they get out in winds above 10 to 15 knots.

So there are pros and cons of both ways to learn. However learning on a bigger board is the way to go unless you live somewhere where its quite shallow with strong, reliable onshore winds with quite flat water and the learner is fit, motivated and co-ordinated.




Chris249
Chris249
357 posts
357 posts
21 Dec 2008 9:35pm
Whether it's better to come from the sailing side or the surfing side is surely a question of what you want to do, where you want to do it, and how much free time you have.

If you don't have much free time, then in many places you won't get all that much high-speed shortboarding done - but if you're in the right situation, shortboarding is bliss.

Ease of learning? Depends on where you are and what you want to get into. We've had no problem teaching loads of people how to learn with the 'sailing' approach.

Trying to learn on a slalom or wave board would be a nightmare; a Go type is great for some conditions, not for others.

Safety? Depends on the conditions. A slalom or wave board would always be pretty dodgy for a beginner.

Cost? Buy a decent "sailing" board and put a decent sail on it and you'll normally still end up paying a lot less than for the wide board approach.

Location? The "sailing" approach works anywhere, but if you're in a windy place the surfing approach could work better.


About windsurfing v boardsailing. The idea that big boards are "sailboards" and small boards are windsurfers is common, but it's pretty illogical.

The name "windsurfer" was created for the Windsurfer (TM), the original 12'6" long board. The sport was initially called "windsurfing" when it was centred about long boards and sailing in all conditions, light and strong. The men who created the name, the sport and the board surely are the ones who earned the right to work out what was called what.

It's the original boards that have the best claim to the "windsurfer" title - it's pretty weird for that US mag and others to say that the original "Windsurfer" (TM) and similar boards are not windsurfers, but other boards are.


pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
22 Dec 2008 2:15am
> learning to beach start rather than uphaul

Of course that would be ideal. So would looping on day one. But impractical.

I've seen countless people over the years trying to learn on (too) short boards, and bypass the uphaul. Most give up in the end. They never even got to the point where they'd say: "I couldn't come back" - sad huh?

The hit rate for learning nowadays is very low. This is a combination of two factors, IMO.

a) learning on improper gear - often too short because that's all the 'teacher' has in his quiver.

b) improper conditions - wind offshore and/or too strong, and very often booms wayyyyyyyyy too high. Those improper conditions preclude not incorrect teaching - they're related.

[there could be a c) : the "I want it now" generation - people are less patient in learning than ever]

This is all ironic: in the old days when Allen Border still played cricket, our water were replete with people windsurfing. So it must have been friggin' easy to learn from the next door neighbour. All of my GFs at the time could pick it up on the worst possible longboard ugly equipment.

Nowadays: hit rate is low, bar schools with proper equipment and instructions.
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