I know the disadvantages.
What are the benefits? I've just bought one mainly because I could get a 100% carbon mast + sail to suit for a price to suit my budget. It will be my lightwind sail so there shouldn't be too much chop - 5 - 18kts.

More grunt

Non-cammed V cammed is like comparing a 4 pot to a V8.

Plus what Paddy said...greater stability = wider wind range. Typically you can hold down much larger cammed sails in the same strength breeze than non-cammed.

That also means more speed

Bender said...

Cammed sails need to be powered up. IMHO in 5knts you may be better off with Rotational sail as a cammedone will feel heavy.

Cammed sails are loads more stable so yon can use bigger sizes in higher winds. for eg

In 25knts the ideal non cammed sail size would be in the 4.5-5.5m range while a 6-7.5m cammed sail would be fine

Cripes!
I wont be aiming to sail in 5 kts. That's just for the times I drive 1hr for a sail and the winds dropped and I'm desperate..

Perhaps someone can explain something to me that never made sense.
When it is claimed that because a cammed sail holds it's shape it is therefore better in a lull, how can the sail holding it's shape be of any benefit if there is no wind to propel you?

Beaglebuddy said...

Perhaps someone can explain something to me that never made sense.
When it is claimed that because a cammed sail holds it's shape it is therefore better in a lull, how can the sail holding it's shape be of any benefit if there is no wind to propel you?

In my opinion, its because with a non-cammed sail it takes the initial gust to actually form the shape of the sail, to then use the power.

Alternatively, it could be that the initial gust, working on a slightly different shape, changes the centre of effort of the sail momentarily, whereas the cammed sail is already locked into the correct shape.

In my personal experience, I went on a trip to Dahab, where I found the wind to be very gusty. Unfortunately the place I hired gear from had all wave/cross-over sails unless you used a 8.0m or 8.5m. I preferred to use the larger sails in strong wind, than use the 'twitchy' smaller sails in the very gusty wind. It was much nicer, and easier to tune the sails for too much power than put up with the on/off/on/off feel of the smaller non-cammed sails.

I have used non-cammed sails in steady wind, and in that case, I am not sure I would have picked much of a difference.

FormulaNova said...

Beaglebuddy said...

Perhaps someone can explain something to me that never made sense.
When it is claimed that because a cammed sail holds it's shape it is therefore better in a lull, how can the sail holding it's shape be of any benefit if there is no wind to propel you?

In my opinion, its because with a non-cammed sail it takes the initial gust to actually form the shape of the sail, to then use the power.

Alternatively, it could be that the initial gust, working on a slightly different shape, changes the centre of effort of the sail momentarily, whereas the cammed sail is already locked into the correct shape.

In my personal experience, I went on a trip to Dahab, where I found the wind to be very gusty. Unfortunately the place I hired gear from had all wave/cross-over sails unless you used a 8.0m or 8.5m. I preferred to use the larger sails in strong wind, than use the 'twitchy' smaller sails in the very gusty wind. It was much nicer, and easier to tune the sails for too much power than put up with the on/off/on/off feel of the smaller non-cammed sails.

I have used non-cammed sails in steady wind, and in that case, I am not sure I would have picked much of a difference.

Hmm, perhaps the surge of wind during a gust is distorting the profile of the non cammed sail while a cammed sail with it's extra battens is more steady.
So it's not really about the lulls but more about handling the gusts?

You'll find the cam sail has a more locked in feel. The draft is very stable so can use a larger sail therefore producing more power and drive. The non cam sail has a limited top end while the cam sail seems to have another gear up it's sleeve. Saying all that, I prefer non cam sails when mucking around in the ocean but cam sails are by far the best in protected waters for maximum speed and comfort.

Beaglebuddy said...

Perhaps someone can explain something to me that never made sense.
When it is claimed that because a cammed sail holds it's shape it is therefore better in a lull, how can the sail holding it's shape be of any benefit if there is no wind to propel you?

There is never no wind at all in the outdoors world.

dinsdale said...

Beaglebuddy said...

Perhaps someone can explain something to me that never made sense.
When it is claimed that because a cammed sail holds it's shape it is therefore better in a lull, how can the sail holding it's shape be of any benefit if there is no wind to propel you?

There is never no wind at all in the outdoors world.

?? what about when it's glassy?

cammed =F22 Raptor
non cammed=Kitty Hawk

Beaglebuddy said...

If there is any wind it should propel a cammed or noncammed sail equally IMO, so I don't really understand the claim that that the cammed sail helps you thru the lulls.
Perhaps when a sail is flat and a sudden gust fills it up the sudden surge of power can overpower you?

Look at aircraft wings and you might get the point. Compare them to flat sheets of tin and you will see what the difference is.

From what I read cammed sails sound like a good idea for the newer sailors wanting bigger sails as well.

kpb said...

From what I read cammed sails sound like a good idea for the newer sailors wanting bigger sails as well.

Not necessarily, crammed sails are a little harder to rig and tune and more challenging to gybe.

Having said that some of the new sails rotate effortlessly so you feel little difference in the gybe. I had a NP H2 for a while and you really didn't even feel the cams rotate in a gybe whereas some rails sails are a totally different story.

Beaglebuddy said...

Victor B said...

Beaglebuddy said...

If there is any wind it should propel a cammed or noncammed sail equally IMO, so I don't really understand the claim that that the cammed sail helps you thru the lulls.
Perhaps when a sail is flat and a sudden gust fills it up the sudden surge of power can overpower you?

Look at aircraft wings and you might get the point. Compare them to flat sheets of tin and you will see what the difference is.

A sail holding it's profile in a lull would seem to offer more air resistance for moving forward compared to a flat sail.
Is it that the profiled sail can capture some wind even during a lull while the flat sail allows the wind pass over and around it without it being transferred into power?

Its not about reducing air resistance from forward movement. It's about the Lift generated by the shape of the sail. Without going into masses of explanatory wording - just google wing air flow and you will probably see different diagrams showing how wing shapes create greater lift. Now consider this lift to be what 'pulls' a windsurfer - by using a vertical wing rather than a horizontal one.

In terms of lulls, zero wind = zero resistance anyway.

An aircraft wing for low speeds has a very thick, forward profile.
Yet to sail upwind we tighten the outhaul, thus reducing the profile.
Who is screwed up here, the windsurfer or the aircraft designer?

Beaglebuddy said...

According to that logic the "lift" would pull you directly downwind.

No it doesn't.

I'm simply saying have a look at a wing and a cammed sail and do some research.

I'm not saying I am an expert. My reply was expressing a general opinion in relation to cam vs no cams.

If you want to get down to tin tacs speak to a sail designer. I was simply providing an opinion and an analogy to explain it.

No animosity or 'trolling' on my part. See ya.