Following on from this thread
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28813&whichpage=2 , some people have proposed that we only count the top two numbers in any category for any day.

So for example if two sailors are really quick but don't post a good distance, but you and your mate sail for ages but don't post a quick time, then the website will select the best two scores, average them, and use those numbers for scoring.

I believe that this will help to even out the competition by giving the larger teams a bit more of a chance against the smaller teams. It will also mean that people won't feel that they're disadvantaging their team by posting low scores.

The only problem I can see is that a slow sailor might feel that s/he isn't making a difference to the team, but I think this is better than feeling that they're a disadvantage.

What are your thoughts?

in my view,

taking only the 2 fastest times really takes away from what the comp was about. we may as well just have teams of 2.

the idea of everyone posting regardless was a good one. those that are sailing wave / uncambered sails & wave boards are at a massive dissadvantage. that is the real point here. not whether person a is better or worse than person b. if the comp goes down the track of the best 2 i think those on wave and freeride gear will soon find that their times will never be counted and they will loose interest.

so here are some ideas....

1. have classes like the WQ speed comps. it really complicates the whole data base somewhat but means that sailor A will have his times count. also means hat people don't have to buy new gear to become competitive.

2. add bonus points for achieving persnal bests, best in class etc.

3. rather than averaging distance travelled. add it up. bigger teams have an advantage then.

i am sure there are more ideas too.

edit :- adding in classes would still be team based. all points scored in each class would be added to give team results.

While we're on scoring, if a team posts 100k's sailed then it will score a number 1 for that team because it's a great effort.

So a team might think that that's all they have to do. Same goes with 40 knots top 2sec peak.

So where's the incentive to really push the boundaries? Why shouldn't someone try for 200km sailed? Or 50 knots?

If we really wanted to get tecknikal (Thanks Mineral ) then we'd organise all scores into a bell curve, take the standard deviation of the scores and then use that to score a team.

Trouble with that is, it's not verifiable. It needs to be obvious how the scoring system works, so there is never any question of tampering with it.
For example, Queensland is winning June's leaderboard at the moment. Yesterday the Moreton Bay Mob (Qld) were tied with the Swan River Mob (WA).
Neither of them posted scores today, but suddenly Moreton Bay mob are ahead. Why

I can't figure it out... I hope the scoring system is still working properly

Guys keep it simple.

Yes 2 best suits the top guys, it lets other team riders focus on other disciplines/use whatever gear they want. But it does hurt the teams with a more freeride focus.

AH the joys of team sports

Keep it simple Nebs, there's never going to be a dead set fair system.

I'm all for the new idea, but then it doesn't effect me as I'm in a two man team. We just couldn't get any more punters.

As for clases depending on gear etc, it'll just get too complicated, and getting away from the original idea. As for me, I only have one supercross board and one sail (true), but I like to see how I go against the guys with all the gear and better conditions, see if I can stick it to them

If everyone from the big teams have a say, it can't be any fairer than that, as they'll have more votes. As it should be, as it effects them the most, also don't count my vote, as it doesn't effect us

Hey Gestalt,

I notice you didn't include a weight class fatty!!
Actually seeing that I'm a skinny little runt on a freestyle board with wave sails I think I deserve a class of my own. Oh! and I'm a senior citizen too.

Coming from a long background in team sport i really enjoyed the idea of a team based challenge. Lets face it windsurfing is generally a solo thing. I saw this as a way to improve my current enjoyment of the sport.

The GPS challenge in its current format is fine - apart from what i see as the team component. Now some teams have embraced this SEQ for example with their effort in may, and i believe the mandurah mob followed suit organising a team day. I know with BCB we had our greates numbers down over the weekend. If this were any other team sport you could not just ask particular members to not participate or be counted when the rest of the team may be red hot. So why not embrace the concept of the team and count the whole team.

Instead of needing a minimum of 2 members to post make it that 75% of the team must post the same date to count. I realise that this makes people have to organise themselves - but if you want to compete then that's what it takes, it really is not that hard. Teams should be a minimum with exceptions possible for outlying areas such as FNQ and the likes.

If teams do not want to compete this way or individuals are unable to make such a commitment then have a social division - with more novel divisions such as age, weight and beauty. These guys can post whenever they like.

Now if this competition really takes off then allocate divisions like any other sport such as div 1, 2, 3 and so on. This allows the top guns to face off against each other and so on down the line.

Unfortunately in its current form i see participants taking advantage of posting only their top 2 sailors.

One final comment. This comp has sponsors. I'm sure that they do not want to be associated with a potential scenario that could become sour. Currently i know that the prizes are awarded randomly. But with the right nurturing this comp could evolve to be much more than it is - especially given real speeds alpha racing software. You could possibly have virtual slalom races across the country - who knows? What i am suggesting is that if competitors are tempted to stretch the rules then change the rules so they cant be stretched.

Regarding a data base for individuals - are you going close to stepping on the toes of GPS Speed Surfing? Guys and girls are able to post there individually.

I think we may be heading away from the K.I.S.S. principles that were the foundations of the GPS Challenge and why it was created from the beggining.

If the top guns want to be really full on then yes they can play with us, but in line with our main agenda of getting crew together to make sailboarding more fun while having some friendly competition.

This i feel will make sure we dont step on the toes of "GPSSS"

Thats my 2cents. I will upshut now

Cheers

P.S I would love some bloody wind

Up to now i thought the rule was already "average of two best for each category". IMO this is the best way to count the scores for teams in the existing categories, as it prevents team members from being excluded from posting their times (if slower), as well as allowing them to focus on certain categories (distance/2secmax only).
Also, i think it might be interesting to note that the first 10 sesions had the following numbers of people post; 2/2, 2/4, 2/6, 2/7, 2/6, 4/7, 3/7, 6/6, 2/5, 2/14.(average of 2.7 per session)

Like the idea of best 2- means members of a team can contribute in the area they are strongest....2 may go for the 'speed- bursts' while others may try for the 'distance' points. All working as a team, but using different talents, and the different gear they have.

Most of us have jobs and its hard to get more than 2 people out on a given day. I thought that was part of it? Make it practical?
Making 75% of team members sail to validate a session would exclude a good portion of the teams. Might give the dole bludgers and retirees a chance though

Reasons for best 2 scores is:
1) It doesn't favour smaller teams
2) It doesn't discourage the slower guys on the day to post
3) Nobody knows who is going to be fastest in all disciplines (well chosen BTW), until the data has been posted. Creates thrill and excitement etc and motivates guys to have a go (eg at least for the 1 hour, total distance, or alpha rankings)
4) The bigger the team the better the chances, which encourages team playing!

Reasons against:
1) A few guys might think that their slower team members ~might~ be upset at not feeling included. hmmmm anybody asked them?

As someone who was not in the fastest 2 in some divisions, I'D BE PROUD OF MY TEAMMATES FOR STEPPING UP AND DELIVERING THE GOODS. And I might not have posted FOR THE GOOD OF THE TEAM.

If you average all the scores, the smaller teams are statistically favoured. So its a bit flawed. If you take the best 2 scores from each discipline, it favours bigger teams. Isn't what this is about??? Encouraging team spirit?

Ok sounds like some consensus is building, but still wanna hear from more people!!!!!!!

Wow, what a fantastic set of replies!

Some very well thought out comments here. I'm happy to set up the code so that it flips over to the "top 2 in any category" system on July 1. I think we've got a consensus? How do you feel about this Hardie?

quote:

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Originally posted by nebbian

Wow, what a fantastic set of replies!

Some very well thought out comments here. I'm happy to set up the code so that it flips over to the "top 2 in any category" system on July 1. I think we've got a consensus? How do you feel about this Hardie?

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A 2 month trial sounds good from 1st of July. However, we did say a review would take place and while I basically am in agreeance with what has been said, I'd still like to hear from more people.

My question is "Does anybody have any strong objections to trialling a scoring system whereby, "the top 2 performances in any category are used for scoring?"

Someone brought up in an earlier post about having groups A and B.
One way of splitting people into these groups is to have limits on each div 2sec, Average speed, Alpha, NM, ect.
For example max 2sec limit for group B is 35knots. So unless you get more than 35knots you stay in group B.
If you get more you automatically go into Group A and stay in that div for the rest of the comp. This can be done for the other divisions as well.
Just an Idea vando

I like vando's idea of A & B divs, as some of us are not ever gonna make 35 knots.
also, it's winter, no wind (other than 35-45 knots this last week) & we haven't caught up with a lot of fellow sailors we only know by first name - who I'm sure would want to 'havago' in a team of sorts.
plus - have to find someone with a GPS.

participation at all levels is what it's about