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Motion GPS

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Created by Farang 7 months ago, 18 Feb 2021
Farang
43 posts
18 Feb 2021 11:21PM
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Hi,

Is Julien still making Motion GPS?s or he has quitted the business? I haven?t been able to contact him since 27th December 2020... Anyone knows what?s going on?

Thanks and cheers, Farang.

sailquik
VIC, 5614 posts
19 Feb 2021 10:04AM
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He is still making the Mini Motion. Production is slowed due to him taking on another project so he can make a living.
It seems that the LCD screen Motion is on hold indefinitely due to non availability of suitable parts (screen)

JulienLe
269 posts
19 Feb 2021 5:43PM
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As Andrew said, I work full time and do Motions on saturday, sunday, monday morning now. I sent 15 Mini every week for the past few weeks and started sending 5 LCD a week last week.

I'll make a longer topic about this in the coming weeks because I had an offer I can't refuse but long story short, nothing changes for you and things will get back to normal in May. I'm not taking any new orders as I'm about 10 from clearing Mini and 35 from clearing LCD. I'll do that first, I'll accept new orders next.

I've been considering quitting, it would be by far the easiest to me. And it would stop the money leak Motions currently are. But as long as it's the only accurate device and as long as some of you will want one, I'll carry on. Also, I owe it to previous supporters of the project.

sailquik
VIC, 5614 posts
19 Feb 2021 10:10PM
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Great to hear that I was wrong and that the LCD Motions are back again!

We are in awe of you perseverance and commitment Julien, and there are no words to describe how much we appreciate it.

remery
WA, 656 posts
19 Feb 2021 8:15PM
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Like!

decrepit
WA, 10764 posts
19 Feb 2021 9:13PM
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JulienLe said..
As Andrew said, I work full time and do Motions on saturday, sunday, monday morning now. I sent 15 Mini every week for the past few weeks and started sending 5 LCD a week last week.

I'll make a longer topic about this in the coming weeks because I had an offer I can't refuse but long story short, nothing changes for you and things will get back to normal in May. I'm not taking any new orders as I'm about 10 from clearing Mini and 35 from clearing LCD. I'll do that first, I'll accept new orders next.

I've been considering quitting, it would be by far the easiest to me. And it would stop the money leak Motions currently are. But as long as it's the only accurate device and as long as some of you will want one, I'll carry on. Also, I owe it to previous supporters of the project.


Great news Julien!!!!!!! I really look forward to getting my LCD

Stretchy
WA, 716 posts
19 Feb 2021 10:25PM
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What you've achieved to date is outstanding Julien. 100% praise
I'm not surprised you've been thinking of quitting. could you, would you, subcontract out a prepaid bulk order?

boardsurfr
WA, 1415 posts
19 Feb 2021 11:37PM
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JulienLe said..
... I'll accept new orders next.
I've been considering quitting, it would be by far the easiest to me. And it would stop the money leak Motions currently are.


Julien, it would be a real bummer if the Motion would not be available anymore - it is by far the best GPS for windsurfing ever. If you are not making money selling the Motion, you will have to give up sooner or later.

The demand for the Motion has always been much larger than the supply. This really means you should raise prices until demand and supply are even. That should also make it easier for you to earn some money from the project. You can always lower prices in the future again.

I believe that the potential demand for the Motion is very high. I would love to get a few more Motions, but since I have other options like my prototypes, I figured others need them more, so I never tried to order. I certainly don't want to order a device that you loose money on!

Farang
43 posts
20 Feb 2021 12:07AM
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JulienLe said..
As Andrew said, I work full time and do Motions on saturday, sunday, monday morning now. I sent 15 Mini every week for the past few weeks and started sending 5 LCD a week last week.

I'll make a longer topic about this in the coming weeks because I had an offer I can't refuse but long story short, nothing changes for you and things will get back to normal in May. I'm not taking any new orders as I'm about 10 from clearing Mini and 35 from clearing LCD. I'll do that first, I'll accept new orders next.

I've been considering quitting, it would be by far the easiest to me. And it would stop the money leak Motions currently are. But as long as it's the only accurate device and as long as some of you will want one, I'll carry on. Also, I owe it to previous supporters of the project.


Good to hear that only 35 left - one of them is mine as I paid for one in advanced on the 12th July 2020 - I have been waiting for it for so long time.

Cheers, Farang

powersloshin
NSW, 1340 posts
20 Feb 2021 7:55AM
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I also appreciate very much what Julien has done, but it is for GPSTC to understand that at the moment the whole system of accepting only posts from approved devices hangs on Julien's shoulders. Some GW60 might be still available but really no one is willing to pay for it.
This is not a complaint or trying to stirring up, it is a matter of fact that should be looked at.

boardsurfr
WA, 1415 posts
20 Feb 2021 8:32AM
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powersloshin said..
I also appreciate very much what Julien has done, but it is for GPSTC to understand that at the moment the whole system of accepting only posts from approved devices hangs on Julien's shoulders. Some GW60 might be still available but really no one is willing to pay for it.
This is not a complaint or trying to stirring up, it is a matter of fact that should be looked at.



Valid point. I think the GT-31 had a few years where it was the only device, but it was reliable, easy to get, reasonably priced, and Locosys still honored warranties, and offered repairs for a reasonable price.

I am using a self-made prototype as my primary GPS, mostly because the GW-60s and Motions I have all can make downloading sessions pretty tricky, thanks to corroded contacts/buttons and macOS often not playing nice with either device. Material cost was somewhere around US$50-60, assembly is pretty straightforward if you know from experience where the hot end of a soldering iron is, and what it's for. Accuracy is similar to the Motion, perhaps a tad better since I wear it on top of my helmet in a GoPro housing.

I'd be happy to share pictures and plans if anyone is interested. Never bothered to do so since it seemed the Motion was a great solution. I think it still is, if you can get one. The prototype opens another can of worms since each prototype would need to be validated, unless someone would be willing to make a bunch. Since I'm in the US, that person is definitely not me.

sailquik
VIC, 5614 posts
20 Feb 2021 2:07PM
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The has always been pretty much only one approved GPS available for GPSTC since the GT-31 hit the scene.

That's not a problem as long as they are readily available.

Now there are actually two mainstream choices (arguably 3) which was not really the case in the past. Plus of course, the option for home made.

Despite some peoples very real, poor experiences with the GW60, it is still being bought for use in the GPSTC and can give years of service if treated with an abundance of the correct care (just like every other bit of windsurfing equipment) but it's probably too much to ask for them to last indefinitely. There are just as many or more dead GT-31's in landfill - and many of them were mine.

The Motion Mini Logger is a sensational device that is almost bomb proof and fool proof. It will probably outlast every other design we have had. It is inexpensive (Lower cost in real inflation adjusted terms than the GT-31 was) and already in wide use in Australia by many very happy sailors. They are often used in conjuction with a GPS smartwatch or smartphone for on the water feedback depending on your needs and budget.

The original Motion LCD GPS was a giant step forward from everything else in every way! Those who got them when they were first available, (until production was abrupty halted by the non availability of the LCD screens), are very fortunate, but the newer model with induction charging and WiFi downloading has eliminated the one potential weakness of the original, which was the USB connection. It is very welcome news indeed that availability of these is on the horizon again.

It's also worth remembering that when GPS windsurfing first started on around 2004/5, the Garmin Foretrex 201 that we used then (that has it's own fair share of losses and drownings - I calculate that there are at least a Dozen on the Shallow inlet seafloor) cost around A$350. Adjusted to current values, that is probably substantially more than the current, far more capable and durable Motion LCD! And GPS-Windsurfing boomed!

mikey100
QLD, 869 posts
20 Feb 2021 1:46PM
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Been using my Motion Logger for about 10 months now... not a hitch. Worth tracking one down for GPS.

mathew
QLD, 1876 posts
20 Feb 2021 3:13PM
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If not-making-money on the Motions, then just increase the price. The fact is, they are good devices. And some people are happy to not whinge about a thing that costs a few weekends of booze.

Boston!
NSW, 229 posts
22 Feb 2021 4:17PM
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Yes, Julien, a price increase is completely understandable and warranted. We need to have these devices available in future years and if their production isn't sustainable then we need to find a way to make it so.

tonyk
QLD, 381 posts
1 Mar 2021 2:25PM
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Are there any teams in Australia with Motion Mini in stock for sale ?

rp6conrad
43 posts
1 Mar 2021 4:12PM
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boardsurfr said..



I'd be happy to share pictures and plans if anyone is interested. Never bothered to do so since it seemed the Motion was a great solution. I think it still is, if you can get one. The prototype opens another can of worms since each prototype would need to be validated, unless someone would be willing to make a bunch. Since I'm in the US, that person is definitely not me.


Can you tell more about your prototype ? I do the same thing for the moment, but I cant test it on the water because of covid (borders closed, located in Belgium, surfing in the Netherlands).
My prototype is based on a ESP32 with e-paper display, beitain bn220 gps (ublox engine) and sd-card. Logging @ 10 Hz in the ubx.nav_pvt format. Still struggling with a watertight housing. I hope I will get on the water soon....


decrepit
WA, 10764 posts
1 Mar 2021 4:57PM
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Very nice, love the display!
unfortunately a display is a bit beyond my abilities, but I'm using a BN880, and as you 10hz NAVPVT sentence.
I'm getting excellent results, so I'm sure you will as well.
As mine is just a logger, I wear it on my head.
I made a fibreglass case for mine with a plastic top, but switch, charging usb slot and card holder are just covered with gaffer tape, and I wear it in an aquapac. Not a brilliant solution, but typical of me a temporary method that lasts for ages.

boardsurfr
WA, 1415 posts
3 Mar 2021 5:32AM
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rp6conrad said..
Can you tell more about your prototype ? I do the same thing for the moment, but I cant test it on the water because of covid (borders closed, located in Belgium, surfing in the Netherlands).
My prototype is based on a ESP32 with e-paper display, beitain bn220 gps (ublox engine) and sd-card. Logging @ 10 Hz in the ubx.nav_pvt format. Still struggling with a watertight housing. I hope I will get on the water soon....


My prototype is display-less (like a Mini Motion). The GPS chip (similar to yours but bigger antenna, BN880) is hooked up directly to an Openlog logger, so there was no need to program anything. Since I don't have a display, "waterproofing" is easy. My favorite solution is using a GoPro dive housing and mounting that on top of my helmet. A second prototype just uses a plastic ziplock bag inside a waterproof armband.

I have played around just a little bit with epaper displays, but the ones I got were quite bad. Your setup is more sophisticated than what I am using. Here are a couple of pictures:

The extra connector at the top is for a bluetooth module, which I decided not to use. It increased noise a bit, and I don't use a phone for speed announcements that often. When I do, the accuracy of the phone GPS is adequate for on-water feedback.


The Openlog chips make life easy, but the cheapest ones you can get on ebay often don't work.

decrepit
WA, 10764 posts
3 Mar 2021 8:10AM
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My problem with the open log chip is it's speed. I can't get it to do 10hz reliably, works fine at 5hz though.
And thanks again Peter for guiding me through the process!

rp6conrad
43 posts
4 Mar 2021 4:10AM
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These e-paper displays come with a ESP32 + SD-card reader + lipo charge circuit integrated. Cost is around 15 ?- 20? : nl.banggood.com/LILYGO-TTGO-T5-V2_0-WiFi-Wireless-Module-bluetooth-Base-ESP-32-ESP32-2_13-e-Paper-Display-Development-Board-p-1332909.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_organic&gmcCountry=BE&utm_content=minha&utm_campaign=minha-beg-nl-pc¤cy=EUR&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgcs&utm_content=xibei&utm_campaign=xibei-pla-beg-pc-nl-all-rm-purchase-0314&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqo3-BRDoARIsAE5vnaKYoZgxlM73rXGbu3h40D1M2PNrqnwA51Mmqw7G59YFVJHHVE1l_y8aAi3wEALw_wcB&cur_warehouse=UK
Logging@10 Hz seems to function, but I only did tests on land with 1 SD card. E-paper is slow, a update rate of 1s ! But the readability is very good. Al is programmed with Arduino IDE. The wifi is used for downloading files + over the air update.
Greetings, Jan.

rp6conrad
43 posts
4 Mar 2021 4:10AM
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These e-paper displays come with a ESP32 + SD-card reader + lipo charge circuit integrated. Cost is around 15 ?- 20?, comes from Banggood, ttgo T5 e-paper Lilygo.
Logging@10 Hz seems to function, but I only did tests on land with 1 SD card. E-paper is slow, a update rate of 1s ! But the readability is very good. Al is programmed with Arduino IDE. The wifi is used for downloading files + over the air update.
Greetings, Jan.

decrepit
WA, 10764 posts
4 Mar 2021 8:18AM
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rp6conrad said.. >>>>
Logging@10 Hz seems to function, but I only did tests on land with 1 SD card. E-paper is slow, a update rate of 1s ! But the readability is very good. Al is programmed with Arduino IDE. The wifi is used for downloading files + over the air update.
Greetings, Jan.


Land or water is irrelevant for missing points.
With the open logger it's the small buffer size that appears to be the problem, It misses points every now and again.
If you use Peter's GPSSpeadreader, that prints a report of how many missed points there are.
ecwindfest.org/GPS/GPSSpeedreader.html
Here's the report from my last session.

File: Lilacs 26 feb 21.ubx
Observed time distribution (in ms):
200 37599
205 1
1 time errors (0 above 5.0 knots), about 0 missing points
18556 filtered points:
Low speed 18555 points; max speed: 0.6 kn
Satellites 40 points; max speed: 0.2 kn
Acceleration 1 points; max speed: 3.6 kn

Filters were applied
Start: 26/02/2021 03:09:40.195 end: 26/02/2021 05:15:00.200
Assumed wind direction: 110 degrees

Files and colors:
Lilacs 26 feb 21.ubx - blue

boardsurfr
WA, 1415 posts
4 Mar 2021 10:52AM
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rp6conrad said..
These e-paper displays come with a ESP32 + SD-card reader + lipo charge circuit integrated. Cost is around 15 ?- 20? :
...
E-paper is slow, a update rate of 1s !


Price looks very good for the features, but what about the update rate? The e-paper I played with had similar slow rates, and IIRC, the screen would flash for most of this time. Just doing partial updates would work only for a limited time. At least one of the comments on the site mentioned something similar.
It's one thing if you can change the numbers displayed just once a second - that's tolerable, we don't need more frequent updates. It's another thing if the screen is unreadable during the entire update period, or flashes to black every time.

On the other hand, I could see some use for a unit that updates only after each run, showing last ran and top speeds. Of all the GPS units I've used, the Motion with the display is really the only one that I can read the numbers easily while sailing - but I don't usually do that in the middle of a top speed run.

Also, have you looked at what kind of sAcc values you get with the setup running and the screen on top of the GPS antenna, compared to GPS chip being separated from the electronics? No need to go windsurfing for this, a stationary test will do. I'm curious because some setups I looked at would increase the sAcc values noticeably.

rp6conrad
43 posts
5 Mar 2021 1:24AM
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The update rate for a "partial" update is around 1s. The amount of pixels that change doesn't influence this rate, so I do a "complete" update. The text stays visible with a partial update, only with a "normal" update the screen changes a few times between black and white, this update takes several sec. For now, I do 100 partial updates and 1 normal. I dont see any differences in the results (visibility). The e-paper has a tendency to "burn in", so with every update a move the position of the complete text with 1 pixel (total travel is 20 pixels, and then back). After 10 hours of use, everything seems to be OK.
If the GPS is located at the side of the screen, the sAcc values are around 0.4. The peak is under a bridge.
sACC-values are around 0.4, with about 10 sats in sight (a 15 min drive with the car, GPS on the dashboard).
I plan to have the GPS-sensor above or aside the screen.

Greetings, Jan.


boardsurfr
WA, 1415 posts
5 Mar 2021 3:56AM
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Looks good. The number of sats is a bit low. How many sat systems are you using? I think the default is just 2. Another possibility is that you'll need to let is warm up longer. The initial acquisition of satellites can be very slow, like half an hour or longer for 3 systems.

remery
WA, 656 posts
5 Mar 2021 10:20AM
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I was thinking (dangerous activity), would iit be better to have the battery check when you turn the device off instead of on?

rp6conrad
43 posts
5 Mar 2021 3:11PM
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boardsurfr said..
Looks good. The number of sats is a bit low. How many sat systems are you using? I think the default is just 2. Another possibility is that you'll need to let is warm up longer. The initial acquisition of satellites can be very slow, like half an hour or longer for 3 systems.


This GPS module takes a long time to first fix (120s - 180s), and also the number of sats needs time... But after 15 min, it will see between 14 and 20 sats. I have the impression that the small ceramic antenna has less signal then the bigger ones. I did tests with a older ublox M8N, and the time to first fix was certainly better (60-100s). Maybe the Beitian BN180 is better.
Select to expand quote
remery said..
I was thinking (dangerous activity), would iit be better to have the battery check when you turn the device off instead of on?


With the e-paper, the battery is checked every hour, and the text stays on the display. Current consumption in deep sleep is 1.5mA, if you cut the blue power led even less (0,5mA).

JulienLe
269 posts
22 Mar 2021 4:46AM
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- I'll reply to every email tomorrow.
- Mini got a 20% battery increase two months ago. LCD got a 20% battery increase now.
- Still no LCD #8 failure to my knowledge.
- I'm doing LCD, LCD, LCD now. Clearing up the list. I'll have some Minis available in April.
- The electronics components shortage is getting worse. Some parts are quoted for 2022 now. I secured plenty a few months ago. I secured some more now.

Dezza
NSW, 790 posts
22 Mar 2021 9:42AM
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Thanks for the update Julien, the latest batch of minis you sent to me has been posted out to people around Australia and one on its way to the Phillipines. Great to hear the LCDs are being worked on too. Will be in touch to do another mini motion order in April

John340
QLD, 2349 posts
22 Mar 2021 9:35AM
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Good to hear Julien, love your persistence



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Motion GPS" started by Farang