Nice idea but for what size yacht? what surface? what cost?
Its almost like asking the question "What is the ideal car" or "What is ideal house" everyones needs are different.
We all know that bigger wheels give less rolling resistance but weight in a heavy tyre is also a negative. On soft surfaces wider tyres are better, almost balloon like but on hard lakes you dont need to get the extra weight up and rolling.
I think if your looking for ideal wheels you need to start with tyres and then find rims to suit, I often look at motor scooter wheels as maybe the ideal as there are many tyre types, wide, thin and light. The rims come in steel or aluminium alloy.
The Fallshaw wheels used on many LLMini yachts seem to have the best combination of size, weight, avaliablity and cost.
Its interesting that FISLY are now looking at an International Mini Class and the preposed rules will limit the wheel size to some extent.

Gizmo said...


Its interesting that FISLY are now looking at an International Mini Class and the preposed rules will limit the wheel size to some extent.

more information please

More imformation please, the only change I can find on fisly is that class8 are looking at changing there wheel size to 27" I thought we had settled on a set of rules and we have built our yachts to comply with them.
Cheers
aus230

Thanks,
Cheers
aus230

Got a bit interested in this so did some measuring up
My mini was built to the 1640 wheelbase and 1510 track standard measurement
and running a tape around the ouside of the wheels it is oversize.... 5.7 M
If you include the boom projected down to the ground it is way over
Standard Fallshaw rear wheels and 16 inch bmx front
If it had a Fallshaw on the front it would be further over
Cheers Hiko

Hiko said...

Got a bit interested in this so did some measuring up
My mini was built to the 1640 wheelbase and 1510 track standard measurement
and running a tape around the ouside of the wheels it is oversize.... 5.7 M
If you include the boom projected down to the ground it is way over
Standard Fallshaw rear wheels and 16 inch bmx front
If it had a Fallshaw on the front it would be further over
Cheers Hiko

I just tried on a LLMini chassis a tape measure... 5.68m but using a 3mm cord and then measuring the cord ...... its spot on 5.6m.

kiwi307 said...

Hi Graham, why would a Fallshaw make it bigger? The 400 8 which I have measures just under 16" inflated, and as a bike wheel is always measured over the tyre ie a 16" bike wheel is 16 OD there should be very little difference?

The difference would come from the width of the tyre, as the measurement goes around a larger radius.

kiwi307 said...

I reckon this is a good rule, cos it's simple, all inclusive and not open to misinterpretation"

I have to agree with you a very simple rule and easy to measure on a lake just have a 5.6m cord in your pocket.
But VERY hard to work with when designing a yacht on paper (a small price to pay)
Remember it only at a discussion point at the moment and NOT a rule.....
But if your into building a yacht it's something to keep in your mind in case the rule does eventuate.

www.ipksa.info/?topic=592.0

in the meantime, heres a wheel to consider, just fit in the size rim and tyre to feel is best for the surface, dont know how it will go on a rocky or stick rich surface. but theres a experiment waiting there for someone

aus230 said...

The wheels I was refering to were for buggies. This is all to confusing to me, after this year I think I will concentrate on class5. I was hopping that the minies would be a good experimental class that could be used to try new ideas.with the restrictions being sail size, lenght and width. I was enjoying trying to develop larger wheels that anyone can make and at a cost that is around the same price as the 8" wheels.
Cheers
aus230

Fair enough on the "anyone can make" but as per a number of other topics it is now my belief that a major factor in the shrinking of the sport, is that those of us whoe are prepared to build our own are the very small minority. The "IWIN" generation is firmly here. (I want it now) This means that the commercial costs have to be considered.Sadly!

aus230 said...

I agree with you and those people want to purchase comercial built yachts is great for the sport, but I dont think it is a good thing if the rules are built around the same yachts excluding the home builders. I think this site was mainly set up to help people build yachts and inform people of what was coming up in events
Cheers
AUS230

Absolutely right, but don't allow rules which will have the commercial version so expensive that those people choose another more accessable sport. I think that most of the people who read and contribute are passionate about the sport.
The large diameter wheels are a very good example. You have shown that it is possible for an amateur to do this cheaply, but cost it commercially and??// Moulds, new rims (can't use 2nd hand etc)
Now I know that people spend on kayaks, windsurfers ect, just consider the ease they have to use them before we say "but x,y,z spend more on"

The problem I have is that I have built my yacht to current specs (width,length,sail size) the change to a loop whatever, size changes all that. The comercial bit was in reference to kiwi's post.and IWIN reference Plus as far as I am aware all other classes are determined to length width and sail size why go away from that it has worked for years.
Cheers
AUS230

We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here are we??

Obviously a bit of "shorthand typing" on my part!
My reference was in regard to keeping a bit of a lid on the min prices. Class 5 was the cheap yacht a fair few years back, sure ain't now, and wheels are (IMHO) a large part of the cost, so my thought related to this
In a way I would be disappointed it the mini became too much of a competition yacht, as there is a fair chance it could take away a fair bit of the fun aspect, and there will be people who will spend more, and round goes the cycle again.
I have just drawn up my next project (and don't know how to post drawings) but I can't yet see why my multi class frame won't work for mini and class 5 with different "plug in" front ends and side axles. In fact I reckon I can take it one step further, and run the same base chassis with big wheels and rig as a 5, then 8" wheels as a Promo, a few more changes for a mini. The mini can then run the big wheels or the 8". This is using the southern hemisphere rules. (Whoops, Nz can't legislate rules cos the NZLYA doesn't exist any more!) Must be Aus rule only despite there being yachts to the mini dimension in many places. Thank goodness for "gentlemens agreements!
Clem will put his 26" wheels on a mini now.

Now back to this thread.
I dont think that a wheel can be made that suits all conditions.
I think frame shape and flex can have a greater effect on how the yacht sail's.
My y framed yachts appear to be able to point a lot higher into the wind than a t shaped frame. I think pauls nappy rush had the same benifit.
My 20" mini wheels had no adventage over Pauls Falshaws (Paul actualy went faster)at our last meeting a Lefroy.
The thing I like about the larger wheels is the ride on rough surfaces(very smoothe compared to wheel barrow wheels), On smooth surfaces there is no diference.
Maybe the frame can have addapters fitted to take different wheels for diferent surfaces --- hard , soft, smoothe, rough.
Cheers
AUS230

the thing I liked about the wheelbarrow wheels was that they were so much smoother than vics pumped up 20" wheels maybe our bump sensors are fitted to different parts of our bodies.
i suspect that although i got slightly higher speeds, vics yacht had the edge on slightly higher average speed upwind, and a better ability to ride the lulls out .
the test will certainly be how they perform on the rougher Walyugup surface. what a great opportunity to test it all out
i shouldnt go getting upset about an "unofficial " European spec for a mini. Once a fisly commitee get thei rhands on it it will become a huge document.
imagine being in a mini with 26" wheels! it would be like being in the path of a sawmill