Good luck to you salt ! Id only employ a plumber for gas installation and testing which is required by law!

saltiest1 said...

japie said...

DIY

yeah, right after you study ag601, as3500, and the local bylaws for your region. go right ahead

Any half decent fitter can out plumb a plumber.

Every time I have unscrewed a shower head or bath spout off I find the threaded part of the wall combination has been hacked off, way off square and the previous plumber has used half a roll of thread tape to cover up his incompetence or more likely his lazyness towards doing the job correctly.

These guys don't know how or are too lazy to pick up a file and make the cut square.

A good drainer is another kettle of fish and usually worth his salt.

All this ag601, as3500, and the local bylaws is the type of thing any tradesman needs to know.

It is knowlege of proper engineering practice that most lack these days and I am not just referring to plumbers either.

Successive governments since 1975 have killed off the apprentice training system and now it has come back to bite everybody on the backside.

When I hear people say "I'm a tradie!", I think "Yeah. That is a fashionable thing to say these days but do have half an idea about what you are doing and what your responsibiliteis are?"

saltiest1 said...

it is for sewer and water as well, but go for it. as i mentioned before though, i charge a "stupid fee" for fixing any bad diy jobs and keep in mind it cost more to repair as id have to undo the done bad to do the done good.

Good on you,
I also charge stupid fee, and also charge for having to fix the cheap arse plumbers mistakes that they won't honour a callback for.

$50 bucks an hour,
Your kidding yourself. I know subbies that won't work for that.
The cost of running a business are extreme.

In my time I had to do 6 years plumbing before I was fully liscenced and then another 2 before I could work for myself.

What get me is the guys in the mines that make $70 plus and winge about tradies charging the same, The thing is we don't get to keep all of our hourly rate.

Most mechanics are $100+
Electricians are through the roof thanks to to mining boom.
Get over it. Its is nearly 2012, Its the cost of living.

Most plumbers here are around $65p/h. An hour's drive & it's $90p/h. I know many tradies that have left the trade because at the end of the day, there's not enough income to pay the bills.

I had a small joinery - charged $45p/h for myself & all my employees. After slogging for years & not getting anywhere I calculated out my 'actual' hourly income based on a year's financials $5.60p/h!!! Shed, machinery/tools, vehicles, wages, maintenance, and fixing the apprentices' fk-ups took the rest! Turned out that my hard work was worth <5% of the gross income of my business.

Charge what you like, the market will determine whether you get work or not. As for plumbing, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge a call-out fee plus $100p/h, but it's the same as anything, as long as the client is getting their money's worth.

Good onya saltiest1!

If you find a plumber or a sparky that shows up when they say they will and doesn't mess you around you pay what they ask because they are rarer than rocking horse ****. Sewer systems and roof crawl spaces are not much fun and the good tradies are worth what they ask for.

The thing that upsets me is set installation fees for something like a/c or water heater systems. Installation fee's for a replacement water heater were in the range of $400-700. That's the same model, no copper work nothing, just wire it in and reconnect an inlet and outlet pipe. That's a minimum $800/hr rate for 20-30 minutes of work, but there are so many people out there that can't even change a flat tire that they can get away with that sort of thing.

Am lucky have have found a a couple of good Plumbers, Electricians and Mechanics who do a good job and use them when needed and follow up with recommending them to others.

It is a two way street, treat them well and you get the same in return. Pay on time and from an invoice and the rest will follow. Like the rest of us they are trying to earn a dollar and they have their businesses to run and lives to lead - including feeding a family.

Rex said...

knigit said...


The thing that upsets me is set installation fees for something like a/c or water heater systems. Installation fee's for a replacement water heater were in the range of $400-700.

And didn't I find that out the hard way $600 for a 30 min change over

The cowboy split system installers are chronic , get in and out quick no matter how rough the duct work looks over the flow and return pipes .

Can absolutely destroy the look of a building in one fowl swoop.

And then put their hand out for a small fortune, and the amazing thing is ,their hand is not shaking.

Tradesmen do not get paid enough. You think how hard most of them work. How many $$$$ dollars worth of tools they have to cart around. And how much knowledge a good tradesmen has. You then have to add in how fu cked ur body gets after being a tradey. I happily charge as much as im worth and do not work for people who arent willing to pay a REALISTiC rate. And if you want advice on a job i charge the same way the lolly shop does.

When you compare us to accountant n lawyers who charge you 40 bucks to send an email you will soon see the difference.

I thought it was more a case of what trade you got in to.

A friend of mine trained to become electrician after being motor mechanic for years. He said he left cause the pay was so lousy, but I guess there must have been more to it.

cisco said...

saltiest1 said...

japie said...

DIY

yeah, right after you study ag601, as3500, and the local bylaws for your region. go right ahead

Any half decent fitter can out plumb a plumber.

Every time I have unscrewed a shower head or bath spout off I find the threaded part of the wall combination has been hacked off, way off square and the previous plumber has used half a roll of thread tape to cover up his incompetence or more likely his lazyness towards doing the job correctly.

These guys don't know how or are too lazy to pick up a file and make the cut square.

A good drainer is another kettle of fish and usually worth his salt.

All this ag601, as3500, and the local bylaws is the type of thing any tradesman needs to know.

It is knowlege of proper engineering practice that most lack these days and I am not just referring to plumbers either.

Successive governments since 1975 have killed off the apprentice training system and now it has come back to bite everybody on the backside.

When I hear people say "I'm a tradie!", I think "Yeah. That is a fashionable thing to say these days but do have half an idea about what you are doing and what your responsibiliteis are?"

yeah fitters say that a fair bit, but ive fixed a fair few jobs by fitters too pretty bad.
go check out the above codes and stuff and get back to me. i think youd be surprised how complicated they are.
definately not something all tradies should know. might want to do your homework prior to a flippant comment like that.

as for the diy bodgey repair stuf, id say its really low for us, like 5 % or less, but the actual stuff i personally see in gas, water and sewer that is bad that i dont repair is maybe 1 in 10 jobs i guess. all i can do is point it out to the client and its up to them to want to get it fixed.
usually sewer gas getting into a bathroom or a gas applialnce that might be lethal. sad thing is they usually just shrug the gas problem side of it off as a "it wont happen to me" thing. tell that to the kids that died in victoria last year so preventable.
im supposed to cut the gas off by law if i see a serious fault and ive done it a few times too, but then they just go and ignore the tag and turn it back on anyway. then they are liable, and / or cop a fine. the liability on a gas fitter is quite big, and thats why i am getting away from that work. i wouldnt be surprised if in 10 years gas fitters were very rare.

Took my car to get fuel pump and thermostat changed,cost $360.

Only 6 screws to undo!

From Repco cost of fuel pump was $92.50

Total job could not possibly have taken more than an hour,some mechanics/tradies rip e-p-c-o.

saltiest1 said...

Poida said...

i dont really mind paying a plumber $220 per hour, its the re-work and f**k ups that cause the most stress.

My office kitchen sink tap water still tastes like some sort of glue. Its PE going into copper, how could they f**k it up?????????? You cant glue PE so what was the third year apprentice thinking? The cost to fix or find the problem is ???????? run the tap for 5 mins and the taste gets better.

220 / hr is way over the norm for normal plumbing stuff!
what pe is it? and whats the pipng outside? theres heaps of pvc rubbish from diy clowns in water services that require glued joints in domestic piping here in wa. thatd foul the flavour.

the plumber was paid on a quote via a builder, i think it was worked on $600 per day plus gst per person plus parts plus 20% for the builder. just saying i would prefer to pay more if the Licensed A class plumber and their apprentices could get it right.
The PE is 20mm or 25mm black with blue lines, dont know manufacturer. this joins onto 10m of copper to the meter end and joins to copper near the tap end, plus the tap tubing. No PVC in there. Real difficult to find the problem as most of it is behind walls, or under concrete paving. to relay would involve heaps of work. I could only think that where there is an offtake from the PE to a garden tap there is a join or an offtake to a bathroom there is a join, that may have something like silastic or something used to stop a leak, who knows, just guessing, but the taste has a taint like a glue smell.

As I say to all the **** tards that complain about my pricing/minimum charges. If you dont like it find some one else. But its funny how all my repeat business is just a case of do the job and send me the bill, I wonder if thats cause I do good work and dont rip people off.

i used to charge $90 plus gst for mobile welding & steel fabrication.

after insurance, rego, consumables, advertising, workshop costs, fuel, replacing tools etc i took home around $20 an hour (before tax). that doesn't include all the time spent doing paperwork and quotes after hours.

factor in the risks of bad debts and the worries about work drying up and you can see it's not a lucrative endeavour for many tradies.