Tangled up in blue

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gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
20 Jan 2011 10:22pm
Harry's got it IMO...don't panic and work as a team.
Lovely
Lovely
QLD
248 posts
QLD, 248 posts
21 Jan 2011 12:39am
I would throw my bar away and the 5th line would flag it out. This is reliable even if powered front lines are severed.

Hopefully the other dumbows kite doesn't want to auto relaunch.

Hopefully the dumbows bridals are capable of fully flagging the kite out.

Thinking about this scary stuff. Kiting in a crowd without a full flagging 5th line is really dangerous.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
20 Jan 2011 11:01pm
Lovely said...

I would throw my bar away and the 5th line would flag it out.



Who said anything about the tangled kites having 5th lines ?
A lot of kites don't even flag to a single line anymore.
These same kites 'flag' to both centrelines which isn't really flagging ...
it's just depowering somewhat.
Flagging is when a kite is tensioned by one line only, not two lines with a bridle.

Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
21 Jan 2011 12:19am
...WaveSlave....you did it again..........you are a legend.........I can't believe so many still bites the same baits.....
your posts, though, did trigger some good responses worth reading ....(and some red thumbs from the thumbies, of course)...... some of us still take themselves a little too serious... but even that is fun.......
...I hope, we all know life starts at 25....(I mean knots)... but those quiet days, it seems, Jimmi and Bob still can give us some highs....
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
21 Jan 2011 7:55am
waveslave said...

Lovely said...

I would throw my bar away and the 5th line would flag it out.



Who said anything about the tangled kites having 5th lines ?
A lot of kites don't even flag to a single line anymore.
These same kites 'flag' to both centrelines which isn't really flagging ...
it's just depowering somewhat.
Flagging is when a kite is tensioned by one line only, not two lines with a bridle.



Oh s*%$t I agree with you slave. Mini 5th lines are not flagging the kite to one line. The thing is if you don't have a safety leash how are you going to easily flag your kite anyway
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
21 Jan 2011 9:48am
Here's your answer to your question TurtleHunter, ^^^
compliments of Wotzy77



wotzy77 said...

Assuming its a big mess and un-detangle-able....

use oh **** handle to flag kites completely whilst not losing them (coz saftey leash is not atttached and probably goes to two front lines as opposed to one)





waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
21 Jan 2011 10:02am
TurtleHunter said...

waveslave said...

What other things should you be doing ?


stay calm and work out a plan WITH the other kiter


This is my plan : ^^^

Tell the other guy to disconnect his death-leash,
then on the count of 3,
1 ...2 ...3,
Both pull the trigger in unison,
Ditch the beasts and cut them loose.
It's the safest option.

whatthe
whatthe
WA
186 posts
WA, 186 posts
21 Jan 2011 10:21am
waveslave said...

Lovely said...

I would throw my bar away and the 5th line would flag it out.



Who said anything about the tangled kites having 5th lines ?
A lot of kites don't even flag to a single line anymore.
These same kites 'flag' to both centrelines which isn't really flagging ...
it's just depowering somewhat.
Flagging is when a kite is tensioned by one line only, not two lines with a bridle.




A kite flagged to a single rear line will loop pretty easy. A kite flagged just to the centre lines is much less likely to loop. I know which one I prefer.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
21 Jan 2011 10:52am
whatthe said...
A kite flagged to a single rear line will loop pretty easy. A kite flagged just to the centre lines is much less likely to loop. I know which one I prefer.


A kite flagged to a single line may 'spiral' a couple of times ...
but it won't loop.
A kite needs to be tensioned by 3 or 4 lines to loop.
The power generated by spiralling is insignificant compared to the thrust created by a loop.

sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
21 Jan 2011 11:00am
Body drag through the other kiter's lines and loop your kite while doing so for extra style.
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
21 Jan 2011 11:07am
waveslave said...

TurtleHunter said...

waveslave said...

What other things should you be doing ?


stay calm and work out a plan WITH the other kiter


This is my plan : ^^^

Tell the other guy to disconnect his death-leash,
then on the count of 3,
1 ...2 ...3,
Both pull the trigger in unison,
Ditch the beasts and cut them loose.
It's the safest option.



99% of the time thats not needed. Ditching your kite is your last resort.
You make it sound pretty dangerous being anywhere downwind of you slave
Mister Dugong
Mister Dugong
368 posts
368 posts
21 Jan 2011 11:29am
I think wavy's hypothesis sis usually involve being in an impact zone where it is preferable not to get tangled by the wave hence the bail out option. Kite should wimper in the white water.

I was thinking to hold the single line and swim against current and waves till you can get it all packed up or drift in.

I'm not an expert but I believe designs for oh **** handle flagging are leaning towards a single front line these days. However the one on my kite is way out of reach to be of decent use in a quick manner.

Again I'm no expert but I enjoy the debate in method. For instance I really liked the fly kites t opposite windows and get closer but I don't know about doing this in surf?
whatthe
whatthe
WA
186 posts
WA, 186 posts
21 Jan 2011 1:40pm
waveslave said...

whatthe said...
A kite flagged to a single rear line will loop pretty easy. A kite flagged just to the centre lines is much less likely to loop. I know which one I prefer.


A kite flagged to a single line may 'spiral' a couple of times ...
but it won't loop.
A kite needs to be tensioned by 3 or 4 lines to loop.
The power generated by spiralling is insignificant compared to the thrust created by a loop.



But you said:

waveslave said...
Both kites are down but trying to relaunch retardedly by themselves.
The strings are fully intertwined.
Both riders are in the water and getting dragged and pulled closer together in the strong wind.
What should you do ?


So I'm guessing that there is enough tension in the lines to "loop" as you put it.

Here's an experiment next time at the beach: Fly your kite to 12, let go of the bar and pull in a handful of centre lines.
Now do the same, but pull in a handful of one back line. Report back with your results.
rongroen
rongroen
WA
75 posts
WA, 75 posts
21 Jan 2011 1:52pm
pulled the line, it looped around the finger and I released. Couldve been so much worse.


tightlines
tightlines
WA
3510 posts
WA, 3510 posts
21 Jan 2011 2:05pm
whatthe said...

waveslave said...

whatthe said...
A kite flagged to a single rear line will loop pretty easy. A kite flagged just to the centre lines is much less likely to loop. I know which one I prefer.


A kite flagged to a single line may 'spiral' a couple of times ...
but it won't loop.
A kite needs to be tensioned by 3 or 4 lines to loop.
The power generated by spiralling is insignificant compared to the thrust created by a loop.



But you said:

waveslave said...
Both kites are down but trying to relaunch retardedly by themselves.
The strings are fully intertwined.
Both riders are in the water and getting dragged and pulled closer together in the strong wind.
What should you do ?


So I'm guessing that there is enough tension in the lines to "loop" as you put it.

Here's an experiment next time at the beach: Fly your kite to 12, let go of the bar and pull in a handful of centre lines.
Now do the same, but pull in a handful of one back line. Report back with your results.



Gunna have to stick up for Slave here, he is not talking about pulling a hand full of back line when the kite is at 12 and there is still tension on the other lines, he is talking about completely releasing all but one back line when the kite is already down.

Releasing to one back line will result in less pull than releasing to two front lines every time.

Please folks don't try whatthe's experiment at home, it will cause the kite to loop, i am 100% sure waveslave would know that.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
21 Jan 2011 3:30pm
TurtleHunter said...

99% of the time thats not needed. Ditching your kite is your last resort.
You make it sound pretty dangerous being anywhere downwind of you slave



Why are you suggesting that I'm a danger ? ^^^
Fully ditching your kite is a standard survival tactic commonly used ...
especially when you've downed your kite in big surf with no time for relaunch.
Folks do it all the time at wavebreaks of major consequence.
And in this scenario of mine ...
Two wet kites cut loose with their lines totally tangled would be like a couple of soggy plastic bags slowly drifting across the shopping centre carpark with no risk to anyone.

TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
21 Jan 2011 5:31pm
I would have thought the "standard survival tactic would of been body drag back to your board and keep riding. How many times have you used your "standard survival tactic" it's a last resort not an immediate reaction.
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
21 Jan 2011 5:34pm
But then kites in a mess in the impact zone with no other escape I would ditch them as well
The main thing though is to do it together
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