wdric said...

kitelooper1 said...

Symptomatic of city slicker culture that is now a dominant feature of Australia as we are one of the most urbanised countries in the world.

Cities are increasingly just a sordid collection of anonymous people who are so socially dysfunctional they hardly have any interaction with their immediate neighbours. As they leave their driveways the dysfunction continues within the road network where the hostility is overt. All the anonymous people scream at the other anonymous people for nothing more that being on the road. Obscene gestures and fists fly and women are even punched through their windows.

Road rage is just one of the many rages the community of strangers inflicts upon itself.

People ignore each other whether they be next to one another on the street, bus, plane and even amongst fellow kiters on the beach or on the water.

Community spirit and social amicability is a rare commodity in our now self destructive cities. You can at most times feel the hostility in the air.

The urban elite in their city slicker wisdom make policies to increase the density of the living arrangements of the anonymous people. The concrete jungle becomes more dense and suffocating, and wierd / feral aberrations of the anonymous people evolve.

Ahh well what does it matter, for most ignorance is bliss.

Funny you mention this
My daughter recently won a local show girl competition and had to interact with people of all ages and from all walks of life for the rest of the event.
One comment that she did make is that the young country guys were way more curtious and nicer than the young city guy's.

Met a new neighbour...instead of asking for my number to contact for the next day he asked for my facebook name...........

Watch a group of teens interact...essential items ipod in one or both ears and an Iphone

Ask someone for directions in their local area...they have to google, then put it into their gps then check in on facebook that they were there.

Watch someone who is left alone at the pub while someone gets a drink...iphone

Go to a country town....people smile, wave, visit eachother........men are a whole different breed (generalisation), old fashioned in a lovely way. - red thumbs??

Pretty sure this argument has 2 sides.

1). Yes the kiter should have gave some kind of an apology, he shouldn't be doing anything that may endanger the public rabble rabble.

2). If you knowingly take your kids to the beach (where "dangerous" activity's are practiced) you accept the fact that there is a possibility that something dangerous could happen.
So if you really want to avoid these incidents go to a place where there are no dangers Eg. A room made of pillows


Bottom line is that by going to the beach you accept the risk of it's dangers.
Chances are there was an irresponsible driver on the way to the beach.
Why not Rabble on a driving forum.

Yeah as NickT said his time is coming
@Jnr Walks yeah there is an inherent risk but this guy is bang out of order what ever way you slice and dice it, and as NickT said this is not an isolated incidence.
If it had happened at mullarz there would have been an uproar.
I think this guy has been moved on from somewhere else already because of his behavior and its about to happen again.

I guess the problem is now that people are more litigious, saying "sorry" becomes an admission of liability. (First rule when you have a car accident) Now, before you "red thumb" me in this situation, I think the best thing to do is:

1. Secure your gear and go over to the person you hit/nearly hit with you kite.
2. Ask, "Is everyone here OK, I hope no-one is hurt"
3. IF someone is hurt, don't make an apology but render assistance where possible (you may be told to leave off) pack down your gear and be ready to offer your contact details. Session over.
4. IF it's a case of no harm, no foul, then make an apology, "Sorry I didn't mean to scare you" that sort of thing.

I did something similar in St Kilda - I don't drop my kite often and it gave me a bit of a shock too. But before I left I also said, "It's great to be down on the beach with your kids, but I would hate to see you or your kids getting hurt, it's a lot safer to either watch from over there, or if your kids just want to play then it's a lot safer up on the beach in front of the Sea Baths, we aren't allowed to kite there and this beach is an area set out for kiters."

lostinlondon said...

I guess the problem is now that people are more litigious, saying "sorry" becomes an admission of liability. (First rule when you have a car accident) Now, before you "red thumb" me in this situation, I think the best thing to do is:

1. Secure your gear and go over to the person you hit/nearly hit with you kite.
2. Ask, "Is everyone here OK, I hope no-one is hurt"
3. IF someone is hurt, don't make an apology but render assistance where possible (you may be told to leave off) pack down your gear and be ready to offer your contact details. Session over.
4. IF it's a case of no harm, no foul, then make an apology, "Sorry I didn't mean to scare you" that sort of thing.

I did something similar in St Kilda - I don't drop my kite often and it gave me a bit of a shock too. But before I left I also said, "It's great to be down on the beach with your kids, but I would hate to see you or your kids getting hurt, it's a lot safer to either watch from over there, or if your kids just want to play then it's a lot safer up on the beach in front of the Sea Baths, we aren't allowed to kite there and this beach is an area set out for kiters."

What a sad indictment on the society we live in now that your first instinct would NOT be to apologise (like anyone ever brought up with any manners would do) but rather to think they might sue me, so first I'll make sure everyone's ok before I offer an apology?? Sorry but that's just crap!
Fact is, if they're the kind of people that are likely to sue you, they're gonna do it regardless of whether you apologise or not. How this topic got so off track astounds me.... All 'amazed' asked for was a simple apology!! One he is entitled to no matter where he was sitting. It's just common MANNERS people!!
I'll say sorry on behalf of all the losers here who can't . Sorry 'amazed'. If it were me, it would've been the first thing I would have done. Unbelievable... Red thumb away.

What a sad indictment on the society we live in now that your first instinct would NOT be to apologise (like anyone ever brought up with any manners would do) but rather to think they might sue me, so first I'll make sure everyone's ok before I offer an apology?? Sorry but that's just crap!
Fact is, if they're the kind of people that are likely to sue you, they're gonna do it regardless of whether you apologise or not. How this topic got so off track astounds me.... All 'amazed' asked for was a simple apology!! One he is entitled to no matter where he was sitting. It's just common MANNERS people!!
I'll say sorry on behalf of all the losers here who can't . Sorry 'amazed'. If it were me, it would've been the first thing I would have done. Unbelievable... Red thumb away.

Thanks Stevo J.
Spot on.

It's really hard to comprehend people who behave in this way..because any decent person would have obviously apologized and checked all was ok...so the question asked is how do people arrive at the point in their minds where they know they have impacted on someone in a dangerous way but can't admit they are in the wrong and apologize,they are able to justify to themselves it's always the other person/people's fault.
The bet is that if the guy in question was reading this thread he still wouldn't admit he had reason to apologize,it's a sad mind set if you can't face up to your wrongs,his karma is he has to live with his miserable head on a daily basis...

DJF said...

lostinlondon said...

I guess the problem is now that people are more litigious, saying "sorry" becomes an admission of liability. (First rule when you have a car accident) Now, before you "red thumb" me in this situation, I think the best thing to do is:

1. Secure your gear and go over to the person you hit/nearly hit with you kite.
2. Ask, "Is everyone here OK, I hope no-one is hurt"
3. IF someone is hurt, don't make an apology but render assistance where possible (you may be told to leave off) pack down your gear and be ready to offer your contact details. Session over.
4. IF it's a case of no harm, no foul, then make an apology, "Sorry I didn't mean to scare you" that sort of thing.

I did something similar in St Kilda - I don't drop my kite often and it gave me a bit of a shock too. But before I left I also said, "It's great to be down on the beach with your kids, but I would hate to see you or your kids getting hurt, it's a lot safer to either watch from over there, or if your kids just want to play then it's a lot safer up on the beach in front of the Sea Baths, we aren't allowed to kite there and this beach is an area set out for kiters."

This basically says "it's your fault that i hit you because you're sitting in a dangerous spot".

I'm not quite sure that ignoring our responsibility for the safety of those around us is the best way to go about it. Although other beach-goers may naively go and sit in a dangerous spot, they have every right to sit there.

However, i do think it's important to inform people of the risks posed by kites flying about their heads. I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest they move to an area close-by that is safely away from kites, but if they refuse, we are STILL responsible if we crash our kites into them.

I think that if we don't apoligise, then the people are more likely to report us to councils, police etc. I think it's in our best interests to avoid hitting other beach goers at all costs (even if they refuse to move away from the kites), and to own up to our mistakes and apoligise.

That's not at all what I was saying. Most people on the beach don't realise the inherent dangers of kitesurfing, but if there is a case of a near miss, you need to do something about it to mitigate the risk in the future:

1. Be more aware of your surroundings in the future
2. Inform the people you nearly wiped out of the risks and what they could do to protect themselves from it.

Also, if you are setting up on the beach and you see someone standing in a risky location, it's worthwhile mentioning it to that person - classic case in point, the St Kilda kiddie pool - you'll have 30 kiters in that space - are you going to tell all 30 kiters to move along from their mandated and designated area, or are you going to suggest to the parent who is likely unaware of the risk that it would be wiser for them to take their kids elsewhere to build sandcastles?

As to not saying sorry. If you have hurt someone's child, what you do, as in rendering assistance after the accident is a lot more meaningful than saying "Oh, sorry." But my first instinct is not to apologise, but to actually make sure that everyone is OK and render assistance if it is required. Isn't that much better than an apology?

That said, this seems to be another one of those classic WA problems, where despite having oodles of space, you guys still manage run over each other

Had a hour to kill in Kalgoolie today so Had a flick through my new fone to see what rubbish is being written on seabreeze ATM and came across this post. My first response was, ye what a dick head, then I realised "amazed" was talking about me. **** I had crashed my kite next to his kids, It appeared to me that I had missed them and I had said sorry at the time but obviously by this post, amazed did not hear me.
So Amazed I am sorry I crashed my kite near your kids. I understand how you feel as I would feel the same if someone crashed there kite next to my kids. I did came to look for you after I kited, which was only about 25 mins but you had already left. Also sorry to disappoint you but the car with the parking ticked was not mine.
Things always seem to go wrong when you are rushing to get a kite in, I only had a short time before I was supposed to be at a lunch.
I set up my kite in the same place I have always set up for the last 12 years, which was still down wind of where you were sitting.
This is not an excuse for my kite crashing, but I had a new set of Wake bindings with laces on, these require both hands to do up tight, usually not a problem as I can park the kite at 12 O'clock and it stays there OK. I can usually notice if it starts to wander off and go to one side. I cant remember the last time this happened, however maybe because of the unusual wind direction or because the wind had not come in properly yet, it crashed before I realised. From where I was it looked it looked like no one was hit and I did say sorry at the time and relaunched my kite. If I had seen that you or your kids were hurt then I would have taken my binding off and come straight over.
As Tony Abbot says "s##t happens". Since I have been kiteing I have been hid by numerous kites, boards and lines both on the beach and in the water, but have never felt the need to post on seabreeze for a public flogging. If it was a apology you want, then again I am sorry, but I do feel you could have come to talk to me about it at the time, as I still had my other binding to tighten up before I went out, and was only out for about 25 mins.
You are more than welcome to come back down to Pinnas and throw rotten vegetables at me if it helps.
I hope you do continue with your kitesurfing and enjoy it as much as possible. I can tell you will enjoy seabreeze and will fit right in.
I have emailed this to you as well
Again Sorry

Yeah See , You should never judge a person by their behaviour .ha!!

It doesn't take much to say sorry and bid someone well. It is a privledge to kite, not a right guys!!!! If we are responsible we take into consideration our own circumstances making safe discisions based on experience and capabilities and always think first for the welfare of the public and fellow kiters. Not just to boost to attract attention or look good in front of onlookers ( yes, we do draw them in, spectators that is)

I hope for the greater good that he didn't have time to sorry for there is always a reason we might just have to wait. I say sorry for on his behalf and if they're reading this next time just check that there ok please. Even if you think the might be because even landing nearby some is enough to scare the .... of of ya.

Just look around, evaluate, hessitate to make sure its safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell am I doing here I normally just read these things. TWO SIDED VEIWER

is lostinlondon the new RSC?????

juicerider said...

Had a hour to kill in Kalgoolie today so Had a flick through my new fone to see what rubbish is being written on seabreeze ATM and came across this post. My first response was, ye what a dick head, then I realised "amazed" was talking about me. **** I had crashed my kite next to his kids, It appeared to me that I had missed them and I had said sorry at the time but obviously by this post, amazed did not hear me.
So Amazed I am sorry I crashed my kite near your kids. I understand how you feel as I would feel the same if someone crashed there kite next to my kids. I did came to look for you after I kited, which was only about 25 mins but you had already left. Also sorry to disappoint you but the car with the parking ticked was not mine.
Things always seem to go wrong when you are rushing to get a kite in, I only had a short time before I was supposed to be at a lunch.
I set up my kite in the same place I have always set up for the last 12 years, which was still down wind of where you were sitting.
This is not an excuse for my kite crashing, but I had a new set of Wake bindings with laces on, these require both hands to do up tight, usually not a problem as I can park the kite at 12 O'clock and it stays there OK. I can usually notice if it starts to wander off and go to one side. I cant remember the last time this happened, however maybe because of the unusual wind direction or because the wind had not come in properly yet, it crashed before I realised. From where I was it looked it looked like no one was hit and I did say sorry at the time and relaunched my kite. If I had seen that you or your kids were hurt then I would have taken my binding off and come straight over.
As Tony Abbot says "s##t happens". Since I have been kiteing I have been hid by numerous kites, boards and lines both on the beach and in the water, but have never felt the need to post on seabreeze for a public flogging. If it was a apology you want, then again I am sorry, but I do feel you could have come to talk to me about it at the time, as I still had my other binding to tighten up before I went out, and was only out for about 25 mins.
You are more than welcome to come back down to Pinnas and throw rotten vegetables at me if it helps.
I hope you do continue with your kitesurfing and enjoy it as much as possible. I can tell you will enjoy seabreeze and will fit right in.
I have emailed this to you as well
Again Sorry

Thanks for the apology juicerider.

My wife & I never saw you acknowledge the fact you had even crashed your kite hence this flogging!. After we confirmed the little fella was OK I looked up to see you continuing to do up your bindings and take off down the beach trying to break free of the clutches of shore break (and the embarrassment of the crash???). It was like you didn't give a crap & ignorance is bliss!


As a rule of thumb from my experiences the majority generally stop at the "scene of the crime" to deliver the apology. Continuing with ones primary focus first & then going to look for the victim to apologize to after the fact generally doesn't happen. I don't go for a ride on my bike down west coast Hwy en route to Trigg and brush past,bump into,bowl over etc etc an old lady, young lady, old man, young man, kid, child, cat, dog etc etc( have I covered them all?) on the footpath at Sorrento & say oh its OK I'll catch them on the way back to see if they are OK and apologize?

If I was Joe blogs public and didn't have this forum I would have more than likely made a complaint to the council officers that booked your friends car just a few minutes later after the incident, perfect opportunity. Yet another feather in the cap for the council to shut down the beaches to kiters.

I appreciate you were pressed for time as all of us with young family's are but a far better outcome would have been achieved by taking 1 minute out to get our attention or even walk the 30 meters up the beach and confirm everyone was ok.

Again you seem to share the same sentiments I do and would have wanted an apology as one would expect.

On this particular day the wind was from the north, we were to the east, you to the west & the apology headed south........

Hopefully we meet again, next time on better terms.

Thanks for stepping up

Cheers

Sounds like a bit more interaction than "sorry mate" from a distance was needed In this situation..bit hard with 1 boot on 1 off,to get up the beach but maybe un-booting was necessary.

Hi All,

It's the wife here. Just wanted to put some perspective on this matter and hope that we can just move on as a lesson learnt by all parties.

Juicerider, your apology is greatly appreciated and sincerely accepted, it does take a big person to put their hand up on a public forum like this. Cheers.

Torch, you say there is always 2 sides to every story, however this story appears to be pretty similar. Maybe more a case of the individuals expectation and perception of the outcome that differs.

We are talking about two children aged 5 and 3 here. To clarify, when the kite came down our children were playing next to each other in the sand. The kite came down between the boys and we lost site of our 3 year old behind the kite. How he didn't get tangled in the lines still astonishes me.

The complete look of terror and fear in our 5 year olds face as he came running to us in tears saying that he had been hit by the kite would be enough to evoke very strong emotions in any parent.

The kite left a decent indent in the sand ,which makes me very very grateful that our son was not hit in the head with the kite. The outcome would have been completely different.

The next part of the story goes…… yadda, yadda, yadda.

Child: Why did I get hit by the kite?
Parent: I am sure it was an accident honey, sometimes kites can fall out of the sky.
Child: But you still have to say sorry if it is an accident.

Out of the mouths of babes.

He had no physical injuries and is fine.

I hope that we can consider this matter now closed, apology humbly made and gratefully accepted.