Hi Gizmo, good to bring this over to a new thread.
I agree about your logic. Personally I can't see why the other classes of Mini (M2 or more particulalry M1)are there, must be to allow for a commercial design which does not compete with a 5. Perhaps Manta? If that's the reaon, that's great to keep them in the sport, but why not say so?
The weights on the rule look very strange. In some cases Clem could run around with only a rig, and still make the minimum. I could not get close to the posted minimums, so as a 55percentile male you can't achieve that (even if you wanted)
I reckon it would be good to have a rule which said;
"Any sailor shall use the same configuration of yacht for the complete event. ie ballast and sail area shall be the same as used in the first race of any event".
My reasonings are;
It takes away the desire to have a quiver of sails.
Allows the heavier sailor to have a chance on "his" day. A very light sailor can run light on light wind, and then ballast on heavy, the heavy guy/gal can't do this.

And sorry, for those who will leap in, it's not a safety issue at all. Choose what you think the event might bring, and if it blows too hard for you to "be safe", don't sail!

[The weights on the rule look very strange. In some cases Clem could run around with only a rig, and still make the minimum. I could not get close to the posted minimums, so as a 55percentile male you can't achieve that (even if you wanted)
I reckon it would be good to have a rule which said;
"Any sailor shall use the same configuration of yacht for the complete event. ie ballast and sail area shall be the same as used in the first race of any event".
My reasonings are;
It takes away the desire to have a quiver of sails.
Allows the heavier sailor to have a chance on "his" day. A very light sailor can run light on light wind, and then ballast on heavy, the heavy guy/gal can't do this.

And sorry, for those who will leap in, it's not a safety issue at all. Choose what you think the event might bring, and if it blows too hard for you to "be safe", don't sail!

Hi Rhys
I can sort of follow you reasoning but don't agree with you. As a light weight sailor being able to have the option of dropping to a smaller sail and/or adding ballast has allowed me to continue to compete on strong wind days during a regatta safely. If this option was removed I would be faced with two options keep on the big rig and possibly not have as good control of the yacht or withdraw from the comp. Now if I have spent lots of money getting to the comp how attractive do you think the 2nd option is? Whilst we should all put safety first in the heat of the moment how many people with think.. nah I will leave the big rig on I should be ok?

Now a light weight sailor with high level sailing ability may be able to manage the full sail in strong winds but what about average people like me? Would this make regattas only the grounds of the very elite? How does the average person get experaince to become elite if they can not compete?

For the record in Rada Tilly I raced with 5.5m most of the time, I did drop to a smaller sail at times and retired from the racing when the wind got so strong it was beyond my ability to compete safely. Having the option of being able to add ballast and use a smaller sail made the sailing I did do safer for me and those around me. It was not an easy decision to pull out of something I spent 2 years saving up to attend.

Are the bigger heavier guys really disadvantaged in some way as they can not shed wieght in light wind races? especially when you consider most of the times regattas have a minimum wind strength required before the start of a race??

Susan

I have been reading this thread with some interest It seems to me that from a competitive point of view and humans seem to always want to compete no matter what the sport there are three factors determining consistant success in landyachting The yacht the pilots ability and the pilots weight
The first two can be altered the last can not
I have no experience of landyachting in Australia but especially with your no pushing rule I would be surprised if there were any heavy consistant champion sailors The odds are stacked against them I believe blokarts have weight classes There would be a very good reason for this In water sailing the ballast [ the sailor ] is movable and the extra weight can be used to advantage at times not so landyachts
So I would think that if the racing wants to be all inclusive of body type then this factor needs to be addressed some how
I dont know of any heavy jockeys --- similar situation

There's not much room on a mini yacht for ballast. Also different yachts will have different overall weights. Who is going to be bothered weighing everyone and there yachts before you go sailing? Christ, it's not the Olympics! this Mini class is just for having fun is it not?

Aren't weight specs part of the "New" mini rules? thats how this thread started.

Yes the thread has gone off a bit! But so have all the others!!!!
86 wasn't Lytham Susan it was 90 Mile!
There have been numerous regattas where wind lower limits have been more than pushed. I thought it was Lytham when you were there that racing was cancelled for the day for very high winds?? Possibly one of the dozens of others I was at though. Do many of the Euro pilots use multiple sails? Certainly not at the Smirnoff international. Batten changes yes, but I did not see sail changes. Area is needed lots of times for the hundreds of tacks needed to claw up a Euro beach.
Yes the sails are now "nominally" 5.5 just as the old ones were nominally 5. The change of rule was to actually reflect what was being used, and at the time there was a change in the way they were measured.
Faster, I would damned well hope so, the cost has gone through the roof. Bill and I had a discussion about this at his 50th, and we both have a common thought about this. Bill and I agreeing totally, now that's a bit rare!
Weight, I will own up to 90 ish, Clem will you fess up

Maybe this "Mini" class is not for the fattys. Afterall you dont see many 90kg guys racing in MotoGP do you .

crikey you are only 90 kg ? no hope for me then

Clemco said...

Sorry about the "fatty" comment. It was not made to offend anyone. It was suposed to be a constructive comment. I mean we are only building these little yachts to get kids into our sport and to have a bit of fun ourselves along the way.

No offence taken Clem, all taken in light heart as long as you don't mind being a runt, I can live with being a fatty!
Why am I not doing yet another 5? For me, too much capital tied up for too little sailing, no one else to go and play with, so a Kiwi Mini will do. The kid is now grown up and involved with aero design of full size race cars and aiming for Post Grad with Le Mans cars, so too late for a kids yacht here! (Perhaps something has rubbed off here?)
What about you Clem, why?

i have done 110 kph gps verified(ask landyacht) in the first model of a lake lefroy mini and i only weigh a petite 120kg
22 8/12/2007 12:32:28 934 ft 0.2 mi 0:00:13 68 mph 267° true S31 21.828 E121 38.016

get some exercise and push. Failing that i get out my pocket trumpet and blow up some wind of my own, If that fails , I just lay back and catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's

Fascinating discussion.
my observations, on most surfaces, in light wind the sailor that gets going is the sailor who pays attention and SAILS the yacht, Pointing the yacht down wind and holding your hands up only works on water
Ive watched people oversheet , undersheet, point downwind, sit in soft sand, push onto a soft sand bank...............................
. It really comes down to practice and experience( gained by practice).
Blokarts have a different sheeting /downhaul system which when combined with thier skinnier,softer masts, cleverly overcomes some of the "downwind dilemnas" which traditional landyachts(TLY) face. . A great asset when being used by beginners and/or on narrow sailing venues.
Its fascinating when you put someone whos experience is from sailing a blowie into a TLY. They just point it down wind and sit there obviously thinking " what a POS, how does it go so fast when the other bloke sails it?"
What makes it hard for Lake Lefroy sailors is that you cn sail on smooth salt in 3knts of wind upwind. often the yachts will head out into the distance upwind for 5km without turning around to check if the wind is strong nough to get them home.
after a few hours, theyve pushed back straight downwind instead of trying to reach and get some speed, all the time cursing that paul day fella whos happily zooming around near the yacht club in the distance.
not having a long skinny strip to sail on makes it hard to understand the Dynamics involved.
Lake Walyungup has its own issues , like knowing where the windshadows are, the soft gravelly sand patches . Muzza will usually draw most of the obstacles on the course map. It is a surface where there is no such thing as enough practice, hence it become so hard to beat the locals.
The lightwind direction is also a messy , flukey wind that is a waste of time sailing in , so the locals have the sense to let the seabreeze kick in(18-22knts) before they race. hence no need to push and a good reason for seatbelts to be worn at all times. theres certainly no need to get out and push off the line.
The boys are all on the well ballasted side as well, eh Baz

well that makes 2 "thinking mans " landsailors out there in OZ
we're so spoilt we go off looking for tiny little claypans for a change of surface.
Mind you the one we use is still 4 times the size of Blokart bay

I think youve got it about right. I recall once , as I lapped you on 90 mile beach, "hmm , I think hes got that downwind bit just about right!"

havent been to the east islands since 86,
I do seem to recall that every time we meet you have the better looking yacht though