Forums > Sailing General

Jib sheet cars.

Reply
Created by southace 2 months ago, 29 Sep 2019
southace
QLD, 4175 posts
29 Sep 2019 5:52PM
Thumbs Up

Im looking at replacing the jib sheet cars , more modern and ease on toe stumping! I'm even thinking on putting the track on the side of the cabin rather than the deck. Any ideas much appreciated.




southace
QLD, 4175 posts
29 Sep 2019 6:14PM
Thumbs Up

I took the forward track off ready for more deck and cabin painting, and seriously now looking at fitting the track to the side of the cabin below the windows, I wonder if I would need a 3 sheath car or just the hinged style will be suitable.


Stockie
NSW, 192 posts
29 Sep 2019 6:44PM
Thumbs Up

I would think the tracks should stay in the original location to suit the sheeting angle?
the tracks on my Bavaria are pulled to the shape of the cabin curve, you could maybe do that to make a neater and less toe eating track, finishing ends on the tracks would help too!
cheers Richard

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
29 Sep 2019 6:56PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Stockie said..
I would think the tracks should stay in the original location to suit the sheeting angle?
the tracks on my Bavaria are pulled to the shape of the cabin curve, you could maybe do that to make a neater and less toe eating track, finishing ends on the tracks would help too!
cheers Richard


Thanks yes that's the easiest fix but I'm thinking the angle won't be compromised that much, I think going inboard a bit is better than going outboard. She's only a cruiser and wil do 6 to 7 knots in 15knots to windward. My main concern would be going through the 24mm deck into 12mm cabin sides and if the angle of the car changes.i think harken does a car that's suited for vertical tracks but I really don't want to have to buy all new track systems.

lydia
963 posts
29 Sep 2019 5:50PM
Thumbs Up

Alert Alert
One of the only things I got caught with Defiance.
The track you have in the pick has different hole centres to the new version.

but what got me was that the pin length in the new cars is too short to engage on the old track.
You will see the replacement track is flat on top with out the cut out.
I will happily buy the cars if you change over.

Jethrow
NSW, 789 posts
29 Sep 2019 8:33PM
Thumbs Up

moving the track to the cabin sides (near vertical) will immensely increase the fastenings shear load than the original (near horizontal) position!

saltiest1
NSW, 2091 posts
29 Sep 2019 9:24PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Jethrow said..
moving the track to the cabin sides (near vertical) will immensely increase the fastenings shear load than the original (near horizontal) position!


Could overcome this by using a backplate when fastening perhaps?

rumblefish
TAS, 779 posts
29 Sep 2019 10:06PM
Thumbs Up

Just a thought....do you ever move the cars?
A floating system might be cheaper and less toe crunchy!@

r13
NSW, 108 posts
29 Sep 2019 10:24PM
Thumbs Up

A backplate is a good idea but it won't change the tensile or shear loads on the fasteners. It will distribute the compression loading caused by the tension in each fastener - including the fastener preload as well as the working load - over the area of the backplate rather than the area of the washers. Backplate needs to be 316 stainless of suitable thickness.

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 8:47AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
lydia said..
Alert Alert
One of the only things I got caught with Defiance.
The track you have in the pick has different hole centres to the new version.

but what got me was that the pin length in the new cars is too short to engage on the old track.
You will see the replacement track is flat on top with out the cut out.
I will happily buy the cars if you change over.


A ok that's typical so it's discontinued track and cars? I don't adjust the cars much but might hunt around for a floating low profile car and track system . More holes to fill and re-drill how delightful!

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1877 posts
30 Sep 2019 9:34AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..
Just a thought....do you ever move the cars?
A floating system might be cheaper and less toe crunchy!@



I like this idea Southace.
Why go and put a squillion holes in your deck? Three padeyes and a low friction ring and you're officially Euro chic yuppie.
As Rumble mentioned, much nicer on the toes and it frees up your sidedecks a lot.

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 11:14AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

rumblefish said..
Just a thought....do you ever move the cars?
A floating system might be cheaper and less toe crunchy!@




I like this idea Southace.
Why go and put a squillion holes in your deck? Three padeyes and a low friction ring and you're officially Euro chic yuppie.
As Rumble mentioned, much nicer on the toes and it frees up your sidedecks a lot.


I think rumble was talking about a bearing type track system not pad eyes. I think I will just stick with the original as it appears it's been discontinued and finding new cars to fit the old track is rare. At least removing half the 4 meter track frees up some deck room.

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 11:28AM
Thumbs Up

I might try and get a new sheave with bearing insert made!


rumblefish
TAS, 779 posts
30 Sep 2019 11:41AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..

shaggybaxter said..


rumblefish said..
Just a thought....do you ever move the cars?
A floating system might be cheaper and less toe crunchy!@





I like this idea Southace.
Why go and put a squillion holes in your deck? Three padeyes and a low friction ring and you're officially Euro chic yuppie.
As Rumble mentioned, much nicer on the toes and it frees up your sidedecks a lot.



I think rumble was talking about a bearing type track system not pad eyes. I think I will just stick with the original as it appears it's been discontinued and finding new cars to fit the old track is rare. At least removing half the 4 meter track frees up some deck room.


Nope, was thinking of removing the track all together!!

A padeye on the deck and another on the cabin top, each with a 3:1 purchase back to a cleat of some sort, even horn cleats would work as you probably aren't going to want to adjust on the fly!!

sydchris
NSW, 280 posts
30 Sep 2019 11:47AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..
I might try and get a new sheave with bearing insert made!



Something like these? www.jbceng.com/products/hi-load-jib-car-sheave

rumblefish
TAS, 779 posts
30 Sep 2019 12:03PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..
I might try and get a new sheave with bearing insert made!



Call Allyacht Spars with dimensions.
No need for bearings, the right material will run straight on the bolt :)

lydia
963 posts
30 Sep 2019 12:21PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..

lydia said..
Alert Alert
One of the only things I got caught with Defiance.
The track you have in the pick has different hole centres to the new version.

but what got me was that the pin length in the new cars is too short to engage on the old track.
You will see the replacement track is flat on top with out the cut out.
I will happily buy the cars if you change over.



A ok that's typical so it's discontinued track and cars? I don't adjust the cars much but might hunt around for a floating low profile car and track system . More holes to fill and re-drill how delightful!


Yep, centres are different but most annoying was buying new cars only to have the pins not lock the cars on the track.

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 6:43PM
Thumbs Up

Ok so now I have some old school ronstan cars and 2 times 2 meter tracks when I work out which one I'm going to use I may ebay the surplus or just keep the other for spare. Seriously why would they change the die from the original t section?






Donk107
TAS, 2303 posts
30 Sep 2019 7:39PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don

lydia
963 posts
30 Sep 2019 5:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..
Ok so now I have some old school ronstan cars and 2 times 2 meter tracks when I work out which one I'm going to use I may ebay the surplus or just keep the other for spare. Seriously why would they change the die from the original t section?







Just email me when you ready
save me ripping two tracks and filling holes repainting etc
L

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 8:07PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
lydia said..

southace said..
Ok so now I have some old school ronstan cars and 2 times 2 meter tracks when I work out which one I'm going to use I may ebay the surplus or just keep the other for spare. Seriously why would they change the die from the original t section?







Just email me when you ready
save me ripping two tracks and filling holes repainting etc
L


What's wrong with your original cars? I'm thinking to keep the stainless ones as I can make them with elastic bungee and control lines not that I Need it for just cruising. I really dont understand why they went to the bother of fitting a 4 metre track on a furling head sail!

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
30 Sep 2019 8:07PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
lydia said..

southace said..
Ok so now I have some old school ronstan cars and 2 times 2 meter tracks when I work out which one I'm going to use I may ebay the surplus or just keep the other for spare. Seriously why would they change the die from the original t section?







Just email me when you ready
save me ripping two tracks and filling holes repainting etc
L


What's wrong with your original cars? I'm thinking to keep the stainless ones as I can make them with elastic bungee and control lines not that I Need it for just cruising. I really dont understand why they went to the bother of fitting a 4 metre track on a furling head sail!

2bish
TAS, 421 posts
30 Sep 2019 9:23PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don


I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!

lydia
963 posts
1 Oct 2019 5:06AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..


lydia said..



southace said..
Ok so now I have some old school ronstan cars and 2 times 2 meter tracks when I work out which one I'm going to use I may ebay the surplus or just keep the other for spare. Seriously why would they change the die from the original t section?









Just email me when you ready
save me ripping two tracks and filling holes repainting etc
L




What's wrong with your original cars? I'm thinking to keep the stainless ones as I can make them with elastic bungee and control lines not that I Need it for just cruising. I really dont understand why they went to the bother of fitting a 4 metre track on a furling head sail!



Did not come with the boat.
I suspect them and other removable deck gear got stolen in the 8 years the boat was on the hard stand before I got it.
There were no spinnakers or winch handles on board either.
L

rumblefish
TAS, 779 posts
1 Oct 2019 10:47PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
2bish said..

Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don



I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!


Google 'floating jib leads'

2bish
TAS, 421 posts
2 Oct 2019 6:54PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..

2bish said..


Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don




I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!



Google 'floating jib leads'


Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1877 posts
2 Oct 2019 7:23PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
2bish said..











rumblefish said..












2bish said..













Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don















I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!














Google 'floating jib leads'













Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?




Yeah, that video was a bit weird, running his mainsheet as well as the jib sheets through the antal rings, that was screwing with my head a bit.
You do want some fore and aft adjustment, so without going all nuts aka a TP52 setup, simply bias your outer pad eye forrard. So when you crack sheets and ease the inner barber hauler the clew moves forrard as it moves outboard.
Whilst it doesn't look like a large range of movement, and it isn't when compared to a pure race setup, it is enough to cover both my headsail and the staysail sheeting angles. It makes sense when you think about it, you aren't going to have a staysail or even a no. 3 or 4 sheeted on the centreline when you've too much wind. Unless you're racing for podiums,


At the other end you need two jammers, one for the inner and outer barber hauler. Mine are situated so you can pick up either sides winch for when you need some mechanical assistance for tightening or easing, but if you have spare winches leave it aligned fore-and-aft, that saves the need for another turning block.
Ignore the small clam cleat holding the red sheet, that is for holding the jib sheet when it's off the winch, it's the two little deck jammers forrard that are the barber haulers.

A lot less holes in your deck!

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
2 Oct 2019 8:09PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

2bish said..








rumblefish said..









2bish said..










Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don












I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!











Google 'floating jib leads'










Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?









Yeah, that video was a bit weird, he had run his mainsheet as well as the jib sheets through the antal rings, which was screwing with my head a bit.
You do want some fore and aft adjustment, so without going all nuts aka a TP52 setup, simply bias your outer pad eye forrard. So when you crack sheets and ease the inner barber hauler the clew moves forrard as it moves outboard.


At the other end you need two jammers, one for the inner and outer barber hauler. Mine are situated so you can pick up either sides winch for when you need some mechanical assistance for tightening or easing, but if you have spare winches leave it aligned fore-and-aft, that saves the need for another turning block.
Ignore the small clam cleat holding the red sheet, that is for holding the jib sheet when it's off the winch, it's the two little deck jammers forrard that are the barber haulers.





10 tones of cruising hull cruising at 7 knots under sail is all I want to achieve shaggy, light breeze she's a motor sailer with 60 hp Perkins. Heavy weather I want to head for shelter. I understand the Barbour hauler floating set up now but for me I just think the 2 meter track minus the existing extension track is perfect for my tub. I prefer deck room to walk around on than have all the trimming controls. Different courses for different horses! Thanks for showing a good example anyways of your set up. I have been walking round the marina checking out all setups and now feel that mine is superior for the yacht I have. It's just a shame they didn't curve the track to the cabin lines rather than fitting it strait.


shaggybaxter
QLD, 1877 posts
2 Oct 2019 8:15PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..

shaggybaxter said..


2bish said..









rumblefish said..










2bish said..











Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don













I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!












Google 'floating jib leads'











Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?










Yeah, that video was a bit weird, he had run his mainsheet as well as the jib sheets through the antal rings, which was screwing with my head a bit.
You do want some fore and aft adjustment, so without going all nuts aka a TP52 setup, simply bias your outer pad eye forrard. So when you crack sheets and ease the inner barber hauler the clew moves forrard as it moves outboard.


At the other end you need two jammers, one for the inner and outer barber hauler. Mine are situated so you can pick up either sides winch for when you need some mechanical assistance for tightening or easing, but if you have spare winches leave it aligned fore-and-aft, that saves the need for another turning block.
Ignore the small clam cleat holding the red sheet, that is for holding the jib sheet when it's off the winch, it's the two little deck jammers forrard that are the barber haulers.






10 tones of cruising hull cruising at 7 knots under sail is all I want to achieve shaggy, light breeze she's a motor sailer with 60 hp Perkins. Heavy weather I want to head for shelter. I understand the Barbour hauler floating set up now but for me I just think the 2 meter track minus the existing extension track is perfect for my tub. I prefer deck room to walk around on than have all the trimming controls. Different courses for different horses! Thanks for showing a good example anyways of your set up. I have been walking round the marina checking out all setups and now feel that mine is superior for the yacht I have. It's just a shame they didn't curve the track to the cabin lines rather than fitting it strait.



All good mate, and I agree, it would be sooo good to get the track off the deck.

southace
QLD, 4175 posts
2 Oct 2019 8:30PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

southace said..


shaggybaxter said..



2bish said..










rumblefish said..











2bish said..












Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don














I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!













Google 'floating jib leads'












Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?











Yeah, that video was a bit weird, he had run his mainsheet as well as the jib sheets through the antal rings, which was screwing with my head a bit.
You do want some fore and aft adjustment, so without going all nuts aka a TP52 setup, simply bias your outer pad eye forrard. So when you crack sheets and ease the inner barber hauler the clew moves forrard as it moves outboard.


At the other end you need two jammers, one for the inner and outer barber hauler. Mine are situated so you can pick up either sides winch for when you need some mechanical assistance for tightening or easing, but if you have spare winches leave it aligned fore-and-aft, that saves the need for another turning block.
Ignore the small clam cleat holding the red sheet, that is for holding the jib sheet when it's off the winch, it's the two little deck jammers forrard that are the barber haulers.







10 tones of cruising hull cruising at 7 knots under sail is all I want to achieve shaggy, light breeze she's a motor sailer with 60 hp Perkins. Heavy weather I want to head for shelter. I understand the Barbour hauler floating set up now but for me I just think the 2 meter track minus the existing extension track is perfect for my tub. I prefer deck room to walk around on than have all the trimming controls. Different courses for different horses! Thanks for showing a good example anyways of your set up. I have been walking round the marina checking out all setups and now feel that mine is superior for the yacht I have. It's just a shame they didn't curve the track to the cabin lines rather than fitting it strait.



All good mate, and I agree, it would be sooo good to get the track off the deck.


They even went to the extent of making 4 meters of below deck capping for the nuts I thought when I first saw it that it might be epoxied on lucky it was just screwed, no leaks and the sealant was reasonably applied, I'm going to remove the existing 2 meter track to paint and re seal with S/S washers on the deck side so the track drains.

Stockie
NSW, 192 posts
2 Oct 2019 9:10PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

southace said..


shaggybaxter said..



2bish said..










rumblefish said..











2bish said..












Donk107 said..
Hi Southace

I think that Rumblefish is talking about replacing the tracks and cars with a adjustable friction ring system like this for the head sail sheets



On the Jenneau 349 in the video the main sheets run through the same rings but they don't have to

Regards Don














I'm interested but I couldn't follow that video explanation at all. That guy must be the worst videographer on YouTube!













Google 'floating jib leads'












Thanks, so they're sort of a barber hauler with some fore/aft adjustment, is that right?











Yeah, that video was a bit weird, he had run his mainsheet as well as the jib sheets through the antal rings, which was screwing with my head a bit.
You do want some fore and aft adjustment, so without going all nuts aka a TP52 setup, simply bias your outer pad eye forrard. So when you crack sheets and ease the inner barber hauler the clew moves forrard as it moves outboard.


At the other end you need two jammers, one for the inner and outer barber hauler. Mine are situated so you can pick up either sides winch for when you need some mechanical assistance for tightening or easing, but if you have spare winches leave it aligned fore-and-aft, that saves the need for another turning block.
Ignore the small clam cleat holding the red sheet, that is for holding the jib sheet when it's off the winch, it's the two little deck jammers forrard that are the barber haulers.







10 tones of cruising hull cruising at 7 knots under sail is all I want to achieve shaggy, light breeze she's a motor sailer with 60 hp Perkins. Heavy weather I want to head for shelter. I understand the Barbour hauler floating set up now but for me I just think the 2 meter track minus the existing extension track is perfect for my tub. I prefer deck room to walk around on than have all the trimming controls. Different courses for different horses! Thanks for showing a good example anyways of your set up. I have been walking round the marina checking out all setups and now feel that mine is superior for the yacht I have. It's just a shame they didn't curve the track to the cabin lines rather than fitting it strait.



All good mate, and I agree, it would be sooo good to get the track off the deck.


Shaggy, thanks for the info on the fairlead/barberhauler set up. Food for thought, thanks. I used one of those wichard slippery rings in lieu of the pulley blocks that continued to pack it in, on my kite snuffer!
I spliced it in with Dyneema, works beautifully now!
Cheers Richard



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Sailing General


"Jib sheet cars." started by southace