cisco said..

Chris 249 said..


My boat and most of those I sail are fractional rigs, where the mainsheet would normally be slightly eased to allow correct twist and the traveller would normally be down the track. If we gybe, the main will not be fixed in position; instead it will have several feet of unrestrained movement and there will be a BIG jolt.

Like others, I can't work out why we want to end up hove to on the leeward side of the MOB, since we'll probably be making leeway further away from them all the time.

I used to sail Petersons and similar boats and yes, with their small mains and their lack of twist and traveller ease things may be different. But US Sailing and most other people advocate tacking into the hove-to position to reduce strain on gear and ground lost to leeward.

That makes sense as to why you would not want to gybe but when the yacht is hove to it should slowly creep to windward which will theoretically bring us up to the MOB but surely on a cruising yacht we are going to start the engine and motor to the MOB.

I am just not picturing how you would tack into the hove to position.

If we are going along on a port tack, we steer hard to port leaving the sheets alone and then the jib will backwind. So then if the helm is kept hard to port the boat will keep turning to port and end up gybeing won't it??

Can you please explain in detail how you execute the manouver or is there a web page with diagrams??

You might be thinking about it a bit too much. It is very straightforward.

After you are through the tack put the helm to leeward. The boat will try to turn back up into the wind but with no way on and the heady backwinded it can't go through the wind. You are hove to, now play with the main sheet and rudder to get the angle right.

MorningBird said..

You might be thinking about it a bit too much. It is very straightforward.

After you are through the tack put the helm to leeward. The boat will try to turn back up into the wind but with no way on and the heady backwinded it can't go through the wind. You are hove to, now play with the main sheet and rudder to get the angle right.

With what I have looked at above I reckon I have got it now.

There are a couple of them that said gybeing to the heave to is not a good idea in heavier conditions.

Yes true. Amazing idea.

IMHO the most interesting information about MOB can be found here;

http://www.usps.org/seattle/images/links/105-mob-cases.pdf t

It's a very large database of many cases. I know, however, that at least one of the Australian cases is not recorded 100% correctly since two of our crew went up to see the sole survivor (a mate of theirs) in hospital after we came in from searching. I sat around a bit numb because we knew by then the two guys I knew would not be found - but despite what the pdf says, they did not go down as the boat sank.

The things that strike me are;

1- as we all know, it's hard to spot someone in the water;

2- many boats get ropes tangled around the prop during rescue - I think the pdf mentions that MOST boats that try to rescue a MOB under power end up with a rope around the prop. This indicates that everyone should know how to get back to a MOB under sail, and either that should be the first option, and/or two separate people should check for lines over the side before the engine is switched on. When we lost the stick at 3am years ago in a nasty Montagu Island race, two or three people separately went around the boat to ensure that all lines were secured before the engine was used.

Some props were tangled in the lifesling or other recovery lines, which is very understandable given the distraction and manoeuvres involved. Personally I'm going to mount a hobby horse here and point out that arguably, the fact that you can clear the prop of a well-setup outboard very easily means that outboards may actually be a safer option for offshore sailing, given that MOB is such a significant danger and fouled props are such a major problem in MOB situations. My boat feels safer now the diesel has been replaced by an ultra long shaft outboard.

3- The Lifesling sounds like a very, very good device.

4- The contrast between the incredibly short survival time in many US waters and the incredibly long potential survival time off Australia is shown by John Quin's survival, and shows us how lucky we are.

5- Why don't we wear wetsuits under light wet weather gear? Sure, we'll stink at the end of the passage - but it gives buoyancy and protects us from hypothermia, and gives you the option of being able to chuck all your other gear off and then swim properly. Similarly, a dinghy buoyancy jacket may be better than a normal one since you can swim well with it and it offers insulation.

In a roughly-related vein, would it be perhaps better to have a Boogie Board in the cockpit, or even an old surfboard (both with simple drogue) to throw to the MOB? It's more familiar to most of us than a lifering and supports you pretty well. You can still get hypothermia if you're a couple of miles out into Bass Strait on a wetsuit and board in a gale (don't ask me how I know this.....) but personally I'd much rather be in the water on a boogie board in my 4.3m wetsuit and spray jacket plus the wetsuit hood that would be tied to the board, than if I was in the very best conventional wet weather gear and a lifering. If it came to the worst, with a wettie and boogie board you could often paddle ashore if you went over the side on a coastal passage.

6- Why do so many people spend so much money getting shiny new fittings and replacing the counter-threaded quibblesuch on their backup yackandandah in the name of safety, and yet ignore things like learning how to manoeuvre under sail, practising how to pick up a MOB, staying fit enough to handle a swim well, and practising how to get aboard?

Surely something as simple as sailing on and off anchor, and getting back aboard by yourself every time you hop over the side for a swim at anchor, would be a huge help in a MOB situation - and yet many, many more people spend much more time and effort on twiddling with their gear and credit card.


PS - one MOB that was not mentioned occurred off Cronulla in the late '90s, when a highly experienced sailor from one of Sydney's top racing boats went over the side. The odd thing about it was that the MOB lives on the seafront at south Cronulla and could actually see the windows of his own snug house while he tried to stay afloat and alive....

On my pikey boat i have no ladder. I did buy some flash SS STEP but don't need it -never installed it, so when we go swimming i rig up a step from jib rope between winch and cleat that sits in water.takes 2 seconds as its already there. Works a treat. By the sounds heaving to rather than engine would be best to retrieve MOB.Also once someones OB and youre aware throw stuff overboard. Cushions etc. Leave a trail to the MOB

You can quickly overheat in a wetsuit if not in water or adequately flushed out.

products like sharkskin are much better as they are designed to breathe out of the water.

A skipper I used to sail with at times used to tell his crew that if anyone went overboard, to let go all sheets, start the motor and hit the MOB button. There would be flogging sails and untidy lines but for novice crew or in a bit of panic, while perhaps not ideal, it may be one way of addressing the situation. Most people can start a motor and put a boat into gear, drive and steer, even when they can't grasp the idea of heaving to, lines and sails can be sorted at a later stage. With enough crew onboard a spotter can be allocated to keep point on the person in the water.
I think PLB with GPS should almost be mandatory, it's easy to say don't fall overboard but when I went overboard in a race I was literally pushed overboard due to someone elses impatience and error not due to my own carelessness. I've been involved in MOB exercises aboard ships, where retrieval has taken up to 17 minutes in rough seas, it taught me you don't ever want to go overboard.

Chris249 post above is what I think. I particularly agree with the comments:

6- Why do so many people spend so much money getting shiny new fittings and replacing the counter-threaded quibblesuch on their backup yackandandah in the name of safety, and yet ignore things like learning how to manoeuvre under sail, practising how to pick up a MOB, staying fit enough to handle a swim well, and practising how to get aboard?

Surely something as simple as sailing on and off anchor, and getting back aboard by yourself every time you hop over the side for a swim at anchor, would be a huge help in a MOB situation - and yet many, many more people spend much more time and effort on twiddling with their gear and credit card.

A sound boat and knowing how to handle it in the conditions you face is your best safety investment.

We did mob exercises in mid atlantic and pacific using a jasons cradle. This was on a 70 m motoryacht. Crane the rib off the bow with driver + 1. The jasons cradle is a kind of floating slatt mat. That connects from 1 end to tender. When near the mob you roll it all out (5/6ft) manoever the cradle that semi floated under the mob then using lines attached to the cradle you roll the cradle with the mob inside it onto the lifeboat.
+1 chris's comnents. Knowing your boat and how to control it is #1. I think epirbs gps etc etc is your back up after your own skills fitness and knowledge.

FreeRadical said..
You can quickly overheat in a wetsuit if not in water or adequately flushed out.

products like sharkskin are much better as they are designed to breathe out of the water.

I was thinking of the stuff I sometimes do, when you're getting wet from spray on the rail anyway! Sharkskin sounds interesting.

Last Hobart I did, boats up ahead were snowed on; the only reason we didn't cop snow was because there was no precipitation. I don't think I would have overheated no matter what I was wearing when I was driving across the Strait, and I had it fairly easy because I was combination bowman/watch captain/helmsman so the mid-deck guys were stacking themselves to protect me from the spray.

Last Wednesday I went windsurfing in the snow and it was quite snug - gotta love that good wetsuit, gloves, hood and booties!

Chris 249 said..

With respect to your skipper, that very extensive survey posted above says that most boats that use a motor in a MOB situation end up with a rope around the prop, so it sounds as if lines can't be sorted out later.

This particular skipper often sailed with novice crew, showing backpackers around the area, visiting family members who did not know how to sail, etc. I guess his thoughts were that he would rather take the risk of line around a prop then a crew doing nothing.

Trek said...


A note about getting someone who's weak on board if no other options are left. Hook the foot of the number 3 onto the toe rail and the head onto a halyard and throw it over the side.

Get the MOB floated onto the sail where he at least won't disappear or drown and can have a rest, then winch him up. Did this once and it worked.

We did this evolution in Sydney Harbour with a crew and it worked well. On my own in 20+ kts and 5 metre seas I'm not so sure.

I always thought a danbouy was a great idea. We've got one in a quick release bracket on the stern ready to throw off with a life ring. But looking around where I am (based Pittwater) I dont see other boats with them. Maybe they've gone out of fashion.

In the latest "Cruising Helmsman", page 6, a guy in Tassie with a much improved DAN buoy. Check it out.

i think throwing floating things until you stop helps as it leaves a trail to the MOB. helpful in swell.
I think life rings are good.
I make a step on my boat from rope that suits my boat and makes it easy to get up out of the water. I can make one of these steps with a jib sheet in about 5 seconds.
Theres a jasons cradle and also you can use a sail like a jasons cradle in that you manouver the sail/cradle under the mob and cocoon them in and pull them up.
I also find inflatable dinghies real easy to get onto from the water.