Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Wind Wings

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Created by Seajuice 30 days ago, 19 Apr 2019
Hover62
20 posts
Wednesday , 15 May 2019 7:04PM
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Thanks JB. I had a paddle in with a hard frame wing towing behind me and it was a bit like throwing out an anchor. I should have realized there would be minimal drag on an inflatable doing the same thing. So no need to deflate it on the water. That way if the wind comes back I can still sail in. I am impatiently waiting for a Wingsurfer from my Naish dealer.

colas
3133 posts
Wednesday , 15 May 2019 9:35PM
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Just for the record, Gong has announced its line of wings: No hard parts, no window, aiming at ease of use and simplicity.
3 sizes: a 3m2 and 5m2, and a 7m2 with a special shape.

No more details, and no availability date. No actual pricing except that it should be similar to the price of a Gong kite sail of similar size. So if you are eager to try windwings ASAP, it is probably not be the best option. (but I have no actual info).
And a warning: "Please avoid harassing the Commercial Dept. because there will not be any info for them to give until it goes up Online." :-)

juandesooka
212 posts
Thursday , 15 May 2019 11:24PM
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The race to market is really interesting. Slingshot had the first post I saw, maybe 2 months ago, resurfacing a wing they invented 10 years ago. Now, just a short time later, we see maybe 8 to 10 companies ready to go.

Were all these companies each secretly prototyping designs over the past few years and coincidentally releasing at the same time? (Where's the videos of the experiments)

Are they hastily building their own equivalents? (Imitation being best flattery) this looks to be a super simple design. Compared to kiteboarding kites , much less technical and also much lower consequences if it doesn't work perfectly....safety concerns lessened. Kite maker could probably churn out a reasonable working copy in a half day in their shop is my guess.

Or is there one factory in China churning out rebranded copies? (Why has no one trademarked this design?)

I am intrigued but not $1k intrigued. Really looking forward to playing around with one,maybe I'll be the first in Canada. But I'll have to wait till a cheaper version arrives ... used, secondary brands, or when the China factory starts selling them out the back door on Ali Express. :-) sorry brands....but there it is. Sounds like no shortage of punters with cash in hand any way.


In the meantime I may experiment with Jerry rigging my 3m prodigy. Tie rear lines together and figure out a handle....maybe sew on a few loops. If it works I'll make a thread for DIY wind wings for the 8 people interested worldwide...a niche in a niche in a niche.



Windgenuity
NSW, 246 posts
Site Sponsor
Thursday , 16 May 2019 9:22AM
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juandesooka said..
The race to market is really interesting. Slingshot had the first post I saw, maybe 2 months ago, resurfacing a wing they invented 10 years ago. Now, just a short time later, we see maybe 8 to 10 companies ready to go.

Were all these companies each secretly prototyping designs over the past few years and coincidentally releasing at the same time? (Where's the videos of the experiments)

Are they hastily building their own equivalents? (Imitation being best flattery) this looks to be a super simple design. Compared to kiteboarding kites , much less technical and also much lower consequences if it doesn't work perfectly....safety concerns lessened. Kite maker could probably churn out a reasonable working copy in a half day in their shop is my guess.

Or is there one factory in China churning out rebranded copies? (Why has no one trademarked this design?)

I am intrigued but not $1k intrigued. Really looking forward to playing around with one,maybe I'll be the first in Canada. But I'll have to wait till a cheaper version arrives ... used, secondary brands, or when the China factory starts selling them out the back door on Ali Express. :-) sorry brands....but there it is. Sounds like no shortage of punters with cash in hand any way.


In the meantime I may experiment with Jerry rigging my 3m prodigy. Tie rear lines together and figure out a handle....maybe sew on a few loops. If it works I'll make a thread for DIY wind wings for the 8 people interested worldwide...a niche in a niche in a niche.





Hey Juandesooka,

The reality is with ideas like this, companies such as Naish (real innovators) have tried, prototyped and possibly dismissed or put on the back burner ideas like this. Their factory in Haiku is a museum of ideas, concepts and experiments that may of nearly worked, were 90% finished or maybe at the time just not suitable for the market.

I spoke with Robby and Michi about 17 months ago on this idea and they had already been prototyping and testing for some time (years). You would have seen Flash Austin cruising around Maui with his framed version years ago. I think the progression of foiling has sparked the performance relationship with the wing concept, and hence it's sudden occurrence (re-occurrence).

The design is far form simple, when you actually understand what the wing is doing, you will be amazed at how much tech is in it. Yes you can jimmmy up a version that will likely work ok, but in Naish' instance, the wing self centres its flight tragectory through is dihedral shape, efficiently directing and transferring the passing wind to lift in a controlled manner. This is also a big reason why Naish is only doing the one size, as we can ride the 4m wing in near no wind, all the way up to crazy conditions with relative ease (skills dependant).

Unlike some other brands launching their wings, the Wing-Surfer is at the full quality of Naish' kites, utilizing Quad-Tex, Sharks Teeth and many other new features that will be seen on the 2020 Season kites, there is not corners cut here, and relentless R&D has been completed to achieve this end result - an amazing wing!

I was interested to speak with Earl from Technix in New Zealand yesterday as he told about riding the Wing-Surfer on foil in 40+kn. Yes it was flagging out and he was in control mode, but to be able actually still ride and foil in 40kn is crazy, and on the same wing I can get going in 10-12kn on!

I can not speak for the other brands out there, but as someone who covers all wind sports, the Wing-Surfer is something special. It is definitely not going to replace our windsurfing and Kitesurfing gear, but there will definitely be conditions where the Wing-Surfer will dominate and our enjoyment levels will be maximised.

In agreement with you Juandesooka, some of the wings that have obviously been rushed out onto the market do took cheap and lower tech than other (like the Wing-Surfer).

The wing is here, the wing is fun!

See you on the water no matter what you're riding,

Ride safe,

JB

hilly
WA, 4555 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 8:59AM
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juandesooka said..
8 people interested worldwide...a niche in a niche in a niche.


I think I agree with this comment, however this is the first vid that makes it look fun and you do not have to switch feet (Sky at end of vid)

hilly
WA, 4555 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 9:06AM
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Forgot to mention it shows the de-powering advantage it has over kites when on a swell.

Fishdude
46 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 9:59AM
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Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..
The race to market is really interesting. Slingshot had the first post I saw, maybe 2 months ago, resurfacing a wing they invented 10 years ago. Now, just a short time later, we see maybe 8 to 10 companies ready to go.

Were all these companies each secretly prototyping designs over the past few years and coincidentally releasing at the same time? (Where's the videos of the experiments)

Are they hastily building their own equivalents? (Imitation being best flattery) this looks to be a super simple design. Compared to kiteboarding kites , much less technical and also much lower consequences if it doesn't work perfectly....safety concerns lessened. Kite maker could probably churn out a reasonable working copy in a half day in their shop is my guess.

Or is there one factory in China churning out rebranded copies? (Why has no one trademarked this design?)

I am intrigued but not $1k intrigued. Really looking forward to playing around with one,maybe I'll be the first in Canada. But I'll have to wait till a cheaper version arrives ... used, secondary brands, or when the China factory starts selling them out the back door on Ali Express. :-) sorry brands....but there it is. Sounds like no shortage of punters with cash in hand any way.


In the meantime I may experiment with Jerry rigging my 3m prodigy. Tie rear lines together and figure out a handle....maybe sew on a few loops. If it works I'll make a thread for DIY wind wings for the 8 people interested worldwide...a niche in a niche in a niche.










This Instagram video from Signature foils looks to be from over a year ago. And there new version coming to market is now with duel struts. It looks to be a good bit different from the others ive seen.

www.instagram.com/p/BwaSTvGHP5V/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

JEG
VIC, 1114 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 1:12PM
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Fishdude said..

juandesooka said..
The race to market is really interesting. Slingshot had the first post I saw, maybe 2 months ago, resurfacing a wing they invented 10 years ago. Now, just a short time later, we see maybe 8 to 10 companies ready to go.

Were all these companies each secretly prototyping designs over the past few years and coincidentally releasing at the same time? (Where's the videos of the experiments)

Are they hastily building their own equivalents? (Imitation being best flattery) this looks to be a super simple design. Compared to kiteboarding kites , much less technical and also much lower consequences if it doesn't work perfectly....safety concerns lessened. Kite maker could probably churn out a reasonable working copy in a half day in their shop is my guess.

Or is there one factory in China churning out rebranded copies? (Why has no one trademarked this design?)

I am intrigued but not $1k intrigued. Really looking forward to playing around with one,maybe I'll be the first in Canada. But I'll have to wait till a cheaper version arrives ... used, secondary brands, or when the China factory starts selling them out the back door on Ali Express. :-) sorry brands....but there it is. Sounds like no shortage of punters with cash in hand any way.


In the meantime I may experiment with Jerry rigging my 3m prodigy. Tie rear lines together and figure out a handle....maybe sew on a few loops. If it works I'll make a thread for DIY wind wings for the 8 people interested worldwide...a niche in a niche in a niche.











This Instagram video from Signature foils looks to be from over a year ago. And there new version coming to market is now with duel struts. It looks to be a good bit different from the others ive seen.

www.instagram.com/p/BwaSTvGHP5V/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link



cutom made 4M with 2 weeks wait for $1230 to straya

hilly
WA, 4555 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 12:02PM
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$1375 for the 5m

colas
3133 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 12:43PM
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I think that there will be some evolution of the gear also because it is hard to predict how most people are going to actually use their wings: In low winds? in high winds? with a foil? in waves? Casually to cruise around? as a downwinding assisting device? as a safe way to learn sailing for kids? etc...

So, I guess there will be some co-evolution of both the gear and the market, it will be interesting to see. A bit like with surf foils, we saw the emergence of the market for big wings.

Also, a lot of people involved now in windsurfing or kiting have tried windwings some years ago, so they were already familiar with the idea. It may not be as "out of the blue" as it seems. I know a lot of brands are quite secretive when testing things, often testing in unfamilliar places without onlookers.

Fitzsup
NSW, 81 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 3:18PM
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colas said..

Gorgo said..
That's hysterical. Possibly the lamest sport in the world is paddling around on a SUP.



I have been windsurfing since 1975, and slogging with a sail is close to torture.
Paddling is quite fun in comparison, at least you are moving your body and getting some exercise.

Note that I was speaking of foil-less SUPs. Wings should be quite fun with the reduced drag of a foil.

Fitzsup, there is a reason the kitewing never took off for water sports before the foil, Just look at the videos, it looks as fun as dragging a boat anchor.


Now it's not as boring as bat ****

make up your mind cola's,now that gong are making them

JEG
VIC, 1114 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 3:25PM
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colas said..
I think that there will be some evolution of the gear also because it is hard to predict how most people are going to actually use their wings: In low winds? in high winds? with a foil? in waves? Casually to cruise around? as a downwinding assisting device? as a safe way to learn sailing for kids? etc...

So, I guess there will be some co-evolution of both the gear and the market, it will be interesting to see. A bit like with surf foils, we saw the emergence of the market for big wings.

Also, a lot of people involved now in windsurfing or kiting have tried windwings some years ago, so they were already familiar with the idea. It may not be as "out of the blue" as it seems. I know a lot of brands are quite secretive when testing things, often testing in unfamilliar places without onlookers.


c'mon colas, show us the product & price before we buy the gold standard

colas
3133 posts
Thursday , 16 May 2019 4:27PM
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Fitzsup said..
Now it's not as boring as bat ****
make up your mind cola's,now that gong are making them




No, I do not plan to get one in the short term. Where I live now (Hossegor) 12knots of wind is hell because of the insane rips it creates, I am not addicted to being in the water, I cannot stand spending time at the beach, if it is onshore I have other things to do than being on the water. Plus seeing that I did not foil once since September, I strongly doubt I would have the motivation to foil+windwing. Especially if it is to slog along at a snail pace (40 years of windsurfing...). I did not even buy a 2nd generation foil board yet, as it would be a waste to use it only twice a year.

This said, I will surely try it once, and maybe use it regularly once I am too old to SUP surf.
And I would have already got one if I was still living in the Mediterranean sea, or another region without frequent good waves, that's for sure!

My post was on the state of the market, not my personal practice. Just because I do not plan to do something means I think it is not interesting for anyone else.

JEG
VIC, 1114 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 8:36AM
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hilly said..
$1375 for the 5m


my question is which SPG size for 80kg rider = 3 or 4 or 5M?
Naish average everyone out to 4M for now and I'm guessing more sizes to come and others will follow with sizes and sizes and shapes with window.

hilly
WA, 4555 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 7:44AM
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JEG said..

hilly said..
$1375 for the 5m



my question is which SPG size for 80kg rider = 3 or 4 or 5M?
Naish average everyone out to 4M for now and I'm guessing more sizes to come and others will follow with sizes and sizes and shapes with window.


Feck I have no idea. Only way i would buy one would be an extended demo. I am worried about the strain on my old feeble arms that are susceptible to tennis elbow. My kite option covers everything I have seen them do (apart from the total de-power) with no arm strain and I get to ride a tiny board.

Fishdude
46 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 10:23AM
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Select to expand quote
JEG said..


hilly said..
$1375 for the 5m




my question is which SPG size for 80kg rider = 3 or 4 or 5M?
Naish average everyone out to 4M for now and I'm guessing more sizes to come and others will follow with sizes and sizes and shapes with window.



One manufacture rates theirs by wind speed.
3m. 20 - 30 knots
4m. 14 - 22 knots
5m. 10 - 17 knots

juandesooka
212 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 12:48PM
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I am of two minds.

One: defending the mad geniuses and innovators pushing the envelope. An old technology that has new potential ... surf foils are the chocolate in the peanut butter, mmm mmm. But so many haters! For me, this seems to meet a sweet spot in surf foiling ... wave riding without paddling, but also without the hassles involved in being tethered to a kite in marginal winds, bad launches, etc.

Two: kind of amused at all the companies each claiming to be the originators. (no offence JB) I actually don't care who gets the blue ribbon, I just want a decent one cheap. Someone sponsor me -- and if it works, I'll say nice things about you online everywhere I can. It's not that I am against selling out, just no one has asked.

however, tennis elbow point is valid....it's a non-starter if that's the case. SUP foiling kills my elbow, as does surf kiting in higher winds (lots of one handed arm extended bar use). I am now pursuing surf foiling partially for this reason. Reports are that arm strength is not much of an issue, as the wing luffs when riding downwind in the waves. But remains to be seen elbow impact.

Windgenuity
NSW, 246 posts
Site Sponsor
Friday , 17 May 2019 3:53PM
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Fishdude said..

JEG said..



hilly said..
$1375 for the 5m





my question is which SPG size for 80kg rider = 3 or 4 or 5M?
Naish average everyone out to 4M for now and I'm guessing more sizes to come and others will follow with sizes and sizes and shapes with window.




One manufacture rates theirs by wind speed.
3m. 20 - 30 knots
4m. 14 - 22 knots
5m. 10 - 17 knots


Naish Wing-Surfer ratings,

4m. 10 - 40knots.

Regards,

JB

Windgenuity
NSW, 246 posts
Site Sponsor
Friday , 17 May 2019 4:29PM
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juandesooka said..
I am of two minds.

One: defending the mad geniuses and innovators pushing the envelope. An old technology that has new potential ... surf foils are the chocolate in the peanut butter, mmm mmm. But so many haters! For me, this seems to meet a sweet spot in surf foiling ... wave riding without paddling, but also without the hassles involved in being tethered to a kite in marginal winds, bad launches, etc.

Two: kind of amused at all the companies each claiming to be the originators. (no offence JB) I actually don't care who gets the blue ribbon, I just want a decent one cheap. Someone sponsor me -- and if it works, I'll say nice things about you online everywhere I can. It's not that I am against selling out, just no one has asked.

however, tennis elbow point is valid....it's a non-starter if that's the case. SUP foiling kills my elbow, as does surf kiting in higher winds (lots of one handed arm extended bar use). I am now pursuing surf foiling partially for this reason. Reports are that arm strength is not much of an issue, as the wing luffs when riding downwind in the waves. But remains to be seen elbow impact.


LOL, nice.

1. Haters will be haters. It happens everywhere. Dunno why???? So many cool things to love out there, not enough time to hate.

2. No offence taken. I don't think I ever claimed Naish invented it. In fact Robby mentions he first rode one in 1987 or something like that. There's nothing new, just new applications.

Sorry no vacancies in sponos at the moment

The weight thing is pretty light. While you're getting it together it may seem a little hard on the shoulders at first, but technique gets better and the stress gets lighter. I haven't noticed any elbow stresses yet, more shoulders.

All good times ahead - Wing-Surfing!

Regards,

JB

DavidJohn
VIC, 16106 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 8:58PM
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I've been sussing them out from the beginning and watched all the vids.

I chose to order the Naish.. (surprise-surprise)..

But I honestly do think it looks the best and I can't wait..

Watch out a Parkdale Yacht Club when I cruise around the flat water on my Windsurfer LT.. and watch out Merimbula Classic when I cruise around the small surf on my 11' Nalu.

Maybe even DW my 14' Maliko on a 15-20 knot day that's normal a real slog.. But it's with the foil that I really want to get it working.

I will be like a big kid..

Youngbreezy
WA, 505 posts
Friday , 17 May 2019 8:42PM
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Naish Wing-Surfer ratings,

4m. 10 - 40knots.

Regards,

JB


I am highly skeptical about this point, there is a massive difference between being "able" to use a wing/kite/sail and actually using it in its good working range.

If at 10 knots you stand on your sup and drift along slowly and at 40 knots you try to hang onto the thing as it flaps around in an uncontrollable mess then that wouldn't be a useable wind range.

Yes I realise this is just conjecture but I would be very surprised if this wing has managed to achieve a huge working wind range that has not yet been achieved by any kite or windsurf sail!!

colas
3133 posts
Saturday , 18 May 2019 2:33PM
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Youngbreezy said..
Yes I realise this is just conjecture but I would be very surprised if this wing has managed to achieve a huge working wind range that has not yet been achieved by any kite or windsurf sail!!


Well, it was achieved with the first Windsurfing gear. We had only one 5.2m2 sail and had to do everything with it...

Youngbreezy
WA, 505 posts
Yesterday , 18 May 2019 10:21PM
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Well obviously it was not achieved with the first windsurfing gear because as the sport developed and the gear got better windsurfers developed a whole range of sail sizes.

The point i was making is that just because it is possible to use 1 sail in an extreme range of conditions doesn't mean that is it's good working range.

Once again just based on my own conjecture but I believe Naish has chosen the one size that works for the widest range of users and conditions. Having just one size would be easier and cheaper to produce and quicker to bring to market. They will almost definitely bring out a number of different sizes further down the line as this improves the range of use and more importantly sells more units!

Also Naish is the only brand that has decided to bring out just one size of kite wing. In windsurfing and kiting sails and kites are almost always offered in a wide range of sizes so I feel Naish is going a bit out on a limb with their one size fits all strategy.

colas
3133 posts
Today , 19 May 2019 12:33AM
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Youngbreezy said..
The point i was making is that just because it is possible to use 1 sail in an extreme range of conditions doesn't mean that is it's good working range.


Actually, it was also my point... kind of "been there done that", "we'll see if you keep one sail size longer than Windsurfing had"
We are actually agreeing.



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"Wind Wings" started by Seajuice