surf4fun said...

Still don't understand why a guy over 50 should have the opportunity to be the "open" and "over 50" champ when anyone under 40 can only compete in the opens, doesn't sound like inclusiveness to me saying as you get older we will give you more chances at winning.

Maybe the open division needs to be renamed under 40 so then you can have age champions with no double ups meaning everyone is competing against their own age, and then have a champion of champions.

If an over 50 is the fastest in the state/nation then they shouldn't deny someone younger the possibility to also be crowned a state/national champion when they have their own age division.

Don't get me wrong I am all for an over 50 division and any division where the numbers

warrant it, but you should only be able to compete in the one division.



You will change your tune when you reach 50 yo .

If an old fart can beat other old farts ..... He wins the old fart trophy .

If the same old fart beats young farts in the same race , he should win their trophy also .

Get fairdinkum , you young fart!!!!!

On the age categories, Masters is not 50+, that's just wrong factually. Masters was originally 35+ but generally defined as:

"Masters athletics is a class of the sport of athletics for athletes in the events of track and field, road running and cross country running. The competitions feature five-year age groups beginning at age 35."

And

The World Masters Athletics Championships are the biannual championships for athletics events held under the auspices of World Masters Athletics, formerly called the World Association of Veteran Athletes, for athletes over the age of 35 years old.[1]

Definition: In road racing, the Masters Division is for runners who are over a certain age. Usually the age is 40, but it can vary from place to place. The Masters Track and Field Committee of USA Track and Field (USTAF) requires that masters athletes be "at least 40 years old on the first day of the meet."

Over 50 is defined as:

"The National Senior Games or "Senior Olympics" is a sports competition for seniors from the United States. It is a multi-sport event specifically devoted to adults aged 50+ (events are divided into age groups with five years interval). It is composed of regional competitions held yearly in all American states. Every two years a nationwide event is held in one state (the National Senior Olympics).

So... I am all for a 50+ category, but you can't IMHO take over the already established Masters category and just move it up. Sorry but "50 is the new 40" just doesn't apply when naming new divisions.

This is generally the universally agreed divisions...

Junior - under 18
Open - 18 - 39
Masters - 40 - 49
Seniors - 50+

If you want a new division, great, then you should nominate that and only be eligible for a trophy / points in that division. If you think you can win the open, then toughen up and nominate in that division and take whatever place you get in that division.

Otherwise, aren't you just hedging your bets?

Common are you blokes fairdinkum or what ?

If a person 50 plus enters a race and wins . Are you saying that that person shouldn't take home the trophy for the open , Over 40 , etc etc as well ??

What a bunch of whingeing ****s - 3 pages whingeing about age groups and who gets in what competition and who doesnt - if ya ****ed up and didnt make it suck it up princess and get on with ya life - just paddle cause you enjoy it and maybe you wouldnt be such a grumpy bunch of arses

End of grumpy old man whinge

Hey, go for it man, whatever makes you feel good.

Guess I'll know how I truly feel about it in around 9 years or so.

All I can say is that if I won a division, I'd be wrapt and wouldnt deny say an under 40s of a trophy.

Share the love I say!

russh said...

What a bunch of whingeing ****s - 3 pages whingeing about age groups and who gets in what competition and who doesnt - if ya ****ed up and didnt make it suck it up princess and get on with ya life - just paddle cause you enjoy it and maybe you wouldnt be such a grumpy bunch of arses

End of grumpy old man whinge

Thats pretty harsh russh.
There may be a few on here that have their own barrow to push and are having a whinge but isn't the bulk of this thread a discussion about ideas that are attempting to promote the growth of the sport.
If you are not into whinging, why add to it with your own, particularly when it isn't a constructive addition to the discussion??

Goochie's comments are sopt on I reckon!!

russh said...

What a bunch of whingeing ****s - 3 pages whingeing about age groups and who gets in what competition and who doesnt - if ya ****ed up and didnt make it suck it up princess and get on with ya life - just paddle cause you enjoy it and maybe you wouldnt be such a grumpy bunch of arses

End of grumpy old man whinge

You win!! You meet all three criteria

Just read all this thread, phew.. without a desire to challenge yourself be it mentally of physically do you just drift of into a world of mediocrity? or as Dame Edna would suggest "a world of beige"
Do you live in fear of suggesting something out of context with what is, for the desire of what could be?...No..I have never done that.. this over 50's is a challenge, a personal competition if you like, with what can be, some may argue its merits or indeed the workings of that inclusion, but the big picture is what should be in sight.
Competition is within us, we live in a society where aspiration is often broken down by a phrase.. Tall poppy.. don't let distraction of the finer points or inbuilt prejudices take away from that broadening of the participants in Sup Comps.
Its not necessarily about the best of the best, its about experiences and personal development if that path is chosen, but if someone achieves then that should be congratulated as that has been done through commitment and hard work, its ok to try and have a crack and dare I say ..have a vision.. I'm not grumpy.. my endophins are happy

Some really good discussion here and most of it is logical. Event organisers want loyalty and sponsors want competitors to buy their product. Historically the age group that best provides these outcomes is the O40s. From many of the events i have been in (SUP and surfski) this is usually the biggest category or slightly behind open. And from this thread, it is clear to see that many of these O40s (including me) are approaching 50 and want to make sure they continue to get value from their entry fees.
As Ock said, in this years Oceanseries, we are having 4 categories: Open, O40s, O50s and Female. This is largely as a result of reviewing who supported the series last year. There will be an equal series prize for each of those 4 categories. Prizemoney will all be on the last race of the year (the 25km 20 Beaches). The final split on prizemoney will again be determined by the support we get from each category.
Due to so few competitors using 12'6s and others chopping and changing b/w 14s and unlimiteds through the series, the piontscore will be no separate board classes...
Oh yeah - if we start getting significant numbers of O60s then why not start up a seperate category for those guys.
In the end, it is just about giving everyone a little bit of respect and recognition but you are never going to please everyone...

Teeps said...


Seniors - 50+

I think I prefer "Veterans" or "Golden Oldies" to "Seniors" Tim

Hi Guys
I think my last post might have been taken out of context and is perhaps a side show to the greater conversation of the over 50 division. The Open division according to the Surfing Australia Website is:

"Open men's. This age group is open to surfers of any age"

The other divisions are 'age' divisions. Junior, O/40, O/50. In a combined start RACE (I'm not talking surf here), you enter your age division. If you happen to win overall then you are the Open champion - that is the Champion of Champions race (you beat all contenders). Whether the paddler entered junior, O/40 or O/50 he is the Open Champion - the best all ages paddler. This is different to Surf as you compete in age group heats, so you would have to choose what you compete in.

Open is not a specific age range, this is across all sports. It is the elite class for that particular sport and the one that generates the greatest interest and competition. The other age catagories exist to make it a level playing field and keep it interesting. Competition is about fun and getting the most out of yourself and others.

Example - what if Connor Baxter as a junior paddler won a significant SUP race and was only known as the Junior champion for that Open event, even though he won. His sponsors would be miffed, the guy who came 2nd would feel sheepish being crowned the Open Champion and the organisers would look a bit amateurish.

...Back to the main topic - Over 50, great idea and good for SUP!

Sorry Ock, I haven't read this thread from the start....am I being curmudgeonly?

I vote for Grand Masters ..... as in Grand Poobar.... Us old guys can sit around nursing our beers on our belly's and pontificate on life and SUP racing in general.

PTWoody said...

Of course, the biggest problem with this notion that age divisions create a level playing field is that relativity and quantum physics combine to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that time (and therefore aging) is an artificial construct of the sentient being in order to separate events. It's not real. It's a false paradigm.

Love it, it's like Kryten from Red Dwarf!...is that showing my age?

Sparx said...

This is classic!!
File it under the heading of "If it wasnt so freakin funny it would be outrageous"
Seems the reason I missed out on the spare slot in the Over Forties had nothing to do with my performance in that division in the State Titles nor for that matter the performance or lack therof of the mysterious Mr X from NSW. Seems when two States are contesting the same spot it goes back to seeding ie which team was most successfull at last years Nationals. Here's where it gets hilarious. Because SUP was run in conjunction with the shortboard titles it is apparently, or was, considered to be a part of that division. Victoria finnished fifth in the Surfmasters, NSW somewhere above. There ya go Mr X, have a nice day!
Here was me thinking I had the combined weight of Surfing Oz and Surfing NSW conspiring to keep me out of the Over Forties, when in fact the blame lay with those underachieving Victorian shortboarders!
But no worries Chine says the man with the plan. "This year we will be crowning a championship SUP state and running our seedings from there." Given the fact that NSW is currently allocating themselves slots in the Over Forties at a ratio of three to one over the Southern States......hands up anyone who cant see how thats going to pan out.
Seriously.....honestly.....I got nothing.....speechless.....

Sparx

that is so messed up what are they thinking?
i feel bad for the other states
it really shouldnt be this messy